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Thread: Starting to think trading up is a good idea

  1. #41
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    I have no interest in the Jets trading up.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    I understand that Von Miller will go top 10 and possibily top 5. But, does he truly deserve that distinction? How would Von Miller rate against top pass rushers in other years? I'm not sure what it is - it may be his size - but something makes me nervous about him. Obviously I'd love for the Jets to have him, but if I were picking 2 - 5, I'd be hesitant (but I'm not sure exactly why).
    I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. If my team was picking in the top 7-8, I wouldn't want them to take Miller. Not with some of the other guys that will be available.

  3. #43
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    Miller is a little different than the DeMarcus Ware prototype, but he's a tremendous prospect in a different way.

    His athletic ability and speed around the edge is fantastic and he can actually cover. I don't see much bust potential there for that reason.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    yes. i would. this team is leveraged into the present. also, the draft strategy Tbaum uses quite often of targeting players and not waiting for BPA altho hi risk, has proven *at least* as successful vis a via the polar opposite philosophy employed by New England of trade down and accumulate.

    Tbaum has proven that you can build a team that way when supplemented by an equal willingness in FA.

    Notice, when he has stayed pat with some notorious picks, the results have been less optimal at times (see gholston; wilson) than when he "just sics" like a dog and trades up. I think the likelihoods of success here are very interesting.

    (It would be an interesting look at the recrd to divide it into picks made by "Best Player determined by preordained draft slotting" and related definitions of "deterministic Availability" and "Greatest Player at any particular point in the draft sequence and at a deliberately negotiated point of value exchange" and related definitions of "entrepreneurial Availability".) But that is a digression.

    Anyway, I believe that some concoction of players and picks would do it.

    I would give our first this year and next year, our third this year, a fourth nest year plus Kellen Clemens and someone else if we had to get up to number two. Forget the specifics, I'm willing to travel up to 2 and pay for it.

    I just think that the Rex and Tbaum machine needs to get that impact player on defense that can drop the shoulder, bend the edge, and get to the QB without parsing it too much. They need a guy with the greatest likelihood of success in the shortest duration with as little likelihood of failure as possible.

    IMO, after the past two years, they need to realize that the CBs can't be the blitzers. If they get a Von Miller, I will guarauntee you at least one superbowl over the next four years.
    Much the same rhetoric was said about Gholston and DROB. I'd hate to mortgage our future as you are saying though I do like the idea of moving up a bit for a very talented OLB in rd 2! I think they just might stay where they are in RD 1 and take Wilkerson and target Reed in rd 2 by moving up in a trade.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet View Post
    Much the same rhetoric was said about Gholston and DROB. I'd hate to mortgage our future as you are saying though I do like the idea of moving up a bit for a very talented OLB in rd 2! I think they just might stay where they are in RD 1 and take Wilkerson and target Reed in rd 2 by moving up in a trade.
    There's a lot of sense in that strategy. Just stay put, a decent prospect will still be there at our spot, and reload by moving into the 2nd and getting someone like Reed. Only question is what will we give up? Our 3rd this year and a 3rd/4th etc next year would seem ok

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    I understand that Von Miller will go top 10 and possibily top 5. But, does he truly deserve that distinction? How would Von Miller rate against top pass rushers in other years? I'm not sure what it is - it may be his size - but something makes me nervous about him. Obviously I'd love for the Jets to have him, but if I were picking 2 - 5, I'd be hesitant (but I'm not sure exactly why).
    +1

    I think he's established himself as one of the best players in this draft, but I don't get the top 5 talking coming up lately. He's basically been locked into Arizona...I think Arizona is one of the most teams more likely to put up with a Cam Newton...they probably like Hall and Skelton in the same way the Jets liked Clemens and maybe even Ainge at one point...they have QB problems and their best player is a WR...who can leave next year...

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    if Mark Sanchez were in year 10 i would agree. He's probably still 2 or 3 seasons away from Super Bowl caliber play. I don't support mortgaging all of this draft and the 1st from next year for any single player.
    The point is not to put it all on Sanchez but to build a dominating DEFENSE and with a Super Bowl or two with GREAT defense and running. The Ravens did it, why not us? I also would say that Mr.T likes QUALITY over QUANTITY. I think we stay at 30 and take a WILKERSON but move into round 2 and take REED.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by FijiJet View Post
    There's a lot of sense in that strategy. Just stay put, a decent prospect will still be there at our spot, and reload by moving into the 2nd and getting someone like Reed. Only question is what will we give up? Our 3rd this year and a 3rd/4th etc next year would seem ok
    I think they will use picks from next year to get a second round pick this year. If we can land Wilkerson, Reed and Moore in this draft, our defense can be very dominating very soon!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing View Post
    It is a good idea. Team is deep and looking for starter quality guys on the D...depth on offense...probably/maybe a K...
    I am not trolling here, but please how can you say the jets are deep?

    At corner you have Wilson who is shaky and the Revis who is best in the game.
    you have one safety Leonard
    You have Cotch coming off Back surgery and no one else at WR.
    You cut Woody and Hunter is a FA
    Jenkins is gone and Ellis is a FA
    you have no B/U QB

    now the CBA may be replaced by a modified "last year practice' and Holmes and Harris will return to the jets in that scenario. As they were tagged, but will Holmes report for the 3 mill, no way. Harris reporting for ten mill will not be an issue.

    But if the CBA is signed and the owners get some salary concessions the jets are not deep at all.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet View Post
    I think they will use picks from next year to get a second round pick this year. If we can land Wilkerson, Reed and Moore in this draft, our defense can be very dominating very soon!

    Trader Mike handcuffed. We all know how much GM Mike Tannenbaum likes to trade during the draft, but that won't be easy because of work-stoppage restrictions. Without a CBA, teams can't trade players, only picks. They can trade future picks, but at the team's risk -- i.e. a 2012 pick would be worthless if there's no draft, which could be the outcome if the players win Brady v. the NFL. In other words, don't expect the Jets to jump into the top 10 from 30th overall. Based on the trade-value chart, their entire draft (six picks) would get them only as high as 20 or 21. Not having that second rounder (see the Antonio Cromartie trade) really hurts.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jet...medium=twitter

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    I am not trolling here, but please how can you say the jets are deep?

    At corner you have Wilson who is shaky and the Revis who is best in the game.
    you have one safety Leonard
    You have Cotch coming off Back surgery and no one else at WR.
    You cut Woody and Hunter is a FA
    Jenkins is gone and Ellis is a FA
    you have no B/U QB

    now the CBA may be replaced by a modified "last year practice' and Holmes and Harris will return to the jets in that scenario. As they were tagged, but will Holmes report for the 3 mill, no way. Harris reporting for ten mill will not be an issue.

    But if the CBA is signed and the owners get some salary concessions the jets are not deep at all.

    The Jets blew their load over the past 2 - 3 years. Now here they sit with very few draft picks and have no back up to their starters at all. In some cases as you say they don't even have starters.

    Compare that to the Pats who have spent the past 2 - 3 years getting rid of the old folks and bringing in young blood. The Pats have a ton of draft picks this year and a 14 - 2 team that will for the most part remain complete.

    The Pats should remain AFCE CHAMPS FOR ANOTHER 3 - 4 YEARS.

    Just Sayin

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Trader Mike handcuffed. We all know how much GM Mike Tannenbaum likes to trade during the draft, but that won't be easy because of work-stoppage restrictions. Without a CBA, teams can't trade players, only picks. They can trade future picks, but at the team's risk -- i.e. a 2012 pick would be worthless if there's no draft, which could be the outcome if the players win Brady v. the NFL. In other words, don't expect the Jets to jump into the top 10 from 30th overall. Based on the trade-value chart, their entire draft (six picks) would get them only as high as 20 or 21. Not having that second rounder (see the Antonio Cromartie trade) really hurts.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jet...medium=twitter
    Like I say, the Jets blew their load. Those thinking about trading up WITH WHAT????

  13. #53
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    Trade up for Von Miller=YES. He'll be expensive. And if they did it and payed handsomely by giving up more picks I think the fallout here would be interesting.

    Since Tanny got here, quality over quantity has been the mentality. For the most part this has served us well. How can you argue? Back-to-back AFCCG's is directly connected to CORE guy's Tanny has drafted.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Trader Mike handcuffed. We all know how much GM Mike Tannenbaum likes to trade during the draft, but that won't be easy because of work-stoppage restrictions. Without a CBA, teams can't trade players, only picks. They can trade future picks, but at the team's risk -- i.e. a 2012 pick would be worthless if there's no draft, which could be the outcome if the players win Brady v. the NFL. In other words, don't expect the Jets to jump into the top 10 from 30th overall. Based on the trade-value chart, their entire draft (six picks) would get them only as high as 20 or 21. Not having that second rounder (see the Antonio Cromartie trade) really hurts.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jet...medium=twitter
    When there is the will, there is a way!

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MACPAC View Post
    The Jets blew their load over the past 2 - 3 years. Now here they sit with very few draft picks and have no back up to their starters at all. In some cases as you say they don't even have starters.

    Compare that to the Pats who have spent the past 2 - 3 years getting rid of the old folks and bringing in young blood. The Pats have a ton of draft picks this year and a 14 - 2 team that will for the most part remain complete.

    The Pats should remain AFCE CHAMPS FOR ANOTHER 3 - 4 YEARS.

    Just Sayin
    Doom and Gloom at its finest!

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    I am not trolling here, but please how can you say the jets are deep?

    At corner you have Wilson who is shaky and the Revis who is best in the game.
    you have one safety Leonard
    You have Cotch coming off Back surgery and no one else at WR.
    You cut Woody and Hunter is a FA
    Jenkins is gone and Ellis is a FA
    you have no B/U QB

    now the CBA may be replaced by a modified "last year practice' and Holmes and Harris will return to the jets in that scenario. As they were tagged, but will Holmes report for the 3 mill, no way. Harris reporting for ten mill will not be an issue.

    But if the CBA is signed and the owners get some salary concessions the jets are not deep at all.
    So basically the only reason we appear to not be deep is because of the whole no CBA thing. I'm fine with that too for the time being.

  17. #57
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    I don't see how any Jets fan can honestly be pushing for a trade up. 1) As has already been mentioned- THERE IS NOTHING TO MOVE UP WITH. It will take a 2012 first rounder and change to get a mid second rounder this year-especially in light of the risk of no draft in 2012. 2) The Jets roster is the most top heavy in the league in terms of talent. Sure there are talented starters and front line players but there is NO depth at any position. NONE. This team hits an unlucky spell with injuries-watch out because there is going to be a significant dropoff in overall play.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFfan View Post
    I don't see how any Jets fan can honestly be pushing for a trade up. 1) As has already been mentioned- THERE IS NOTHING TO MOVE UP WITH. It will take a 2012 first rounder and change to get a mid second rounder this year-especially in light of the risk of no draft in 2012. 2) The Jets roster is the most top heavy in the league in terms of talent. Sure there are talented starters and front line players but there is NO depth at any position. NONE. This team hits an unlucky spell with injuries-watch out because there is going to be a significant dropoff in overall play.

    2 - 3 injuries away from being 8 - 8

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MACPAC View Post
    2 - 3 injuries away from being 8 - 8
    versus the Pats who are 2-3 injuries away from being 6-10?? you'll do your two month houdini act again if that were to happen...

    Quote Originally Posted by MACPAC View Post
    The Jets blew their load over the past 2 - 3 years. Now here they sit with very few draft picks and have no back up to their starters at all. In some cases as you say they don't even have starters.

    Compare that to the Pats who have spent the past 2 - 3 years getting rid of the old folks and bringing in young blood. The Pats have a ton of draft picks this year and a 14 - 2 team that will for the most part remain complete.

    The Pats should remain AFCE CHAMPS FOR ANOTHER 3 - 4 YEARS.

    Just Sayin
    lol- you talk a lot of sh!t for someone who was too embarrassed to show her face on this site after the head up the butt prediction which exploded in your face....

    as far as all the great young blood the pats have brought in the past two years- how's it working out for them at WR?? RB?? O-Line??? D-line????

    except for a one or two players- where's all the "great young blood" brought in from the '08/'07/'06 drafts???
    Last edited by Come Back to NY; 04-03-2011 at 01:50 PM.

  20. #60
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    The Jets are not a deep team but the analysis of why in this thread is foolish. No CBA no play, otherwise the Jets will resign guys they value.

    As for the Pats the big problem with them is that they are the darlings of the draft each year because they trade down and trade for future picks all the time. Now this is a nice strategy if you eventually use those picks in the deep draft or if you parlay those picks into high end prospects. They have gone overboard by constantly not using the value of those picks but pushing them forth to the next draft year and the next one after that.

    The Jets have gone in the exact opposite direction and that also catches up with a team because you keep adding salary for higher end players but your depth suffers. In the end the Pats need to be bringing in as good of players as they can right now because their hof QB is going to be 34 when the next season begins.

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