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Thread: Forget about Cameron Heyward...

  1. #1
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    Forget about Cameron Heyward...

    not that i ever thought he'd last until thirty...

    unofficially 4.95/40 and a 35-inch vert this morning...should start to put to bed some of the questions about his athleticism and explosion...

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    agree he's probably gone 10 or more slots before 30

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    Not surprised... He plays that way.

    Is definitely one of my few cant-bust prospects.

    O well.. I like him so much I'd try to trade up for him, but I really don't see that happening either.

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    In my mind there was never any question he wouldn't get passed the Patriots at 17 or Chargers at 18. Heyward is the prorotypical 3-4 end and dominated in the bowl game. Top 15 talent (top 10 talent last year) and the fact that draft gurus like Kiper are hanging their hat on his elbow injury as a reason to drop him into the early second round is ridiculous and exemplifies everything that is wrong with the media draft coverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFfan View Post
    In my mind there was never any question he wouldn't get passed the Patriots at 17 or Chargers at 18. Heyward is the prorotypical 3-4 end and dominated in the bowl game. Top 15 talent (top 10 talent last year) and the fact that draft gurus like Kiper are hanging their hat on his elbow injury as a reason to drop him into the early second round is ridiculous and exemplifies everything that is wrong with the media draft coverage.
    jax @16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    not that i ever thought he'd last until thirty...

    unofficially 4.95/40 and a 35-inch vert this morning...should start to put to bed some of the questions about his athleticism and explosion...
    Given the times of DLmen this year, I was expecting better , but this is more than respectable for a 300 pound guy.

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    My favorite prospects never end up with the Jets so this does not shock me.

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    The one game that has colored me the most on Heyward was the 09' PSU/OSU game. Watching that game, it seemed abundantly clear that Heyward was a far better player than Odrick. I've never really understood how it was even a possibility that he'd last til 30. If he was a pitcher, I'd understand why TJ surgery is an issue. But as a DL? Not so much.

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    This is turning out pretty sh*tty for us.

    Heyward and even Wilkerson probably don't make it out of the Top 20-25 now. Nevermind Cameron Jordan and J.J. Watt. Hell, Ballard may not even be there at #30.


    Yeah, I'm feelin' a tradeup right about now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    This is turning out pretty sh*tty for us.

    Heyward and even Wilkerson probably don't make it out of the Top 20-25 now. Nevermind Cameron Jordan and J.J. Watt. Hell, Ballard may not even be there at #30.


    Yeah, I'm feelin' a tradeup right about now.
    Its one thing to trade up for Heyward a few spots. Its another thing, IMO, to trade up for Wilkerson. But I can't see what we have to trade with that will move us more than 2-3 spots. Do we risk not having a pick until the 4th round by trading away our 3rd rounder? That would suck. And I'd really like to have a full complement of draft picks one of these years so I'm really not all that excited about giving away 2012 picks either.

    If, by some miracle, one of Heyward/Watt/Jordan/Smith/Quinn/Kerrigan fell to #27, I'd consider leap frogging the Pats to get to them. Besides that, I'll stand pat. And, if the right deal comes along, I'd trade down back as far as the 40th pick. Would rather not go below there.

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    if your looking for Dline help, you do not trade up.. there is so much talent and depth at that position. You can get a very servicable guy in rounds 3 thru 5... Carter, Bair, Thornton, Fua, Guy, Powe, Jenkins, Neild, and Blanc to name a few.

    any of these names i have faith that rex can turn them in to a quality contributor for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    This is turning out pretty sh*tty for us.

    Heyward and even Wilkerson probably don't make it out of the Top 20-25 now. Nevermind Cameron Jordan and J.J. Watt. Hell, Ballard may not even be there at #30.


    Yeah, I'm feelin' a tradeup right about now.
    Seems like everyone is forgetting that there are only 32 players that can get selected in the 1st round. If these projected early 2nd rounders all start going in the 1st, then someone else has to fall. Plus there is going to be one team that wants to make a move for a QB (Ponder or Dalton) possibly at the end of round 1.

    In one of the deepest drafts for a position that we happen to need, trading up would be a mistake....why get 1 guy when you can get 2.

    QB: Gabbert, Newton, 1 other QB (Locker, ponder, mallet, dalton).
    OT: Costanzo, Carimi, Tyron Smith, Solder
    C: Pouncey
    Rb: Ingram
    WR: Jones, Green
    DT: Dareus, Fairley, 1 other DT (Taylor, Liguet, Paea)
    DE: Bowers, Quinn, Watt, Aldon Smith, Wilkerson, Heyward, Jordan, Clayborn, Kerrigan, Ballard, Brooks Reed, Jabaal Sheard
    OLB: Miller, Ayers
    CB: Peterson, Akumara

    There are 30 players listed above that all have been discussed as 1st round picks, and I only included 1 fringe DT and 1 QB. We could easily see locker and 1 of ponder/mallet/dalton plus another Taylor (KC) and Liguet before us. Or even Derrok Sherrod.

    Someone from the above group will fall to us, no doubt about it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Seems like everyone is forgetting that there are only 32 players that can get selected in the 1st round. If these projected early 2nd rounders all start going in the 1st, then someone else has to fall. Plus there is going to be one team that wants to make a move for a QB (Ponder or Dalton) possibly at the end of round 1.

    In one of the deepest drafts for a position that we happen to need, trading up would be a mistake....why get 1 guy when you can get 2.

    QB: Gabbert, Newton, 1 other QB (Locker, ponder, mallet, dalton).
    OT: Costanzo, Carimi, Tyron Smith, Solder
    C: Pouncey
    Rb: Ingram
    WR: Jones, Green
    DT: Dareus, Fairley, 1 other DT (Taylor, Liguet, Paea)
    DE: Bowers, Quinn, Watt, Aldon Smith, Wilkerson, Heyward, Jordan, Clayborn, Kerrigan, Ballard, Brooks Reed, Jabaal Sheard
    OLB: Miller, Ayers
    CB: Peterson, Akumara

    There are 30 players listed above that all have been discussed as 1st round picks, and I only included 1 fringe DT and 1 QB. We could easily see locker and 1 of ponder/mallet/dalton plus another Taylor (KC) and Liguet before us. Or even Derrok Sherrod.

    Someone from the above group will fall to us, no doubt about it....

    Ok,using your senario,let's say Buffalo or San Francisco didn't take a QB,and
    calls the Jets offering their 2nd a 4th and a 7th to move into 30.Who do you figure on that list that would realistically fall to us is not worth making that deal for.
    Last edited by Tinstar; 03-30-2011 at 04:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    Ok,using your senario,let's say Buffalo or San Francisco didn't take a QB,and
    calls the Jets offering their 2nd a th and a 7th to move into 30.Who do you figure on that list that would realistically fall to us is not worth making that deal for.
    I tell them to go pound sand if all they are offering to move up is a 7th round pick. There's no point in moving down if all you're getting back is a 7th, which is just about worthless.

    You don't move from 30 to 34 for anything less than a low 4th/high 5th. And if we're talking a QB to a division rival, that price goes up to a high 4th.

    And in this case I think I'd go with Marvin Austin with that 2nd pick. I also REALLY like Drake Nevis, but he's isn't the greatest fit for the D.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    Ok,using your senario,let's say Buffalo or San Francisco didn't take a QB,and
    calls the Jets offering their 2nd a th and a 7th to move into 30.Who do you figure on that list that would realistically fall to us is not worth making that deal for.
    Also, the above projection doesnt include any huge surprises (Tyson Alaulu going top 10 last year when he had a mid 2nd round grade) of which there is one every year.

    Anyway,

    The draft value chart has our #30 pick worth 620.

    The bills pick #34 in the round and that is worth 560

    SF picks #45 in the round and that is worth 450.

    To move back 4 spots the bills would send us something around a 4th round pick.

    SF would have to give us a 3rd round pick.

    If we dealt with the Bills any number of players could be available, its only 3 non-qbs that would be picked.

    If we dealt with SF its far riskier, but a player like marvin austin would be there and we would have another 3rd round pick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Seems like everyone is forgetting that there are only 32 players that can get selected in the 1st round. If these projected early 2nd rounders all start going in the 1st, then someone else has to fall. Plus there is going to be one team that wants to make a move for a QB (Ponder or Dalton) possibly at the end of round 1.

    In one of the deepest drafts for a position that we happen to need, trading up would be a mistake....why get 1 guy when you can get 2.

    QB: Gabbert, Newton, 1 other QB (Locker, ponder, mallet, dalton).
    OT: Costanzo, Carimi, Tyron Smith, Solder
    C: Pouncey
    Rb: Ingram
    WR: Jones, Green
    DT: Dareus, Fairley, 1 other DT (Taylor, Liguet, Paea)
    DE: Bowers, Quinn, Watt, Aldon Smith, Wilkerson, Heyward, Jordan, Clayborn, Kerrigan, Ballard, Brooks Reed, Jabaal Sheard
    OLB: Miller, Ayers
    CB: Peterson, Akumara

    There are 30 players listed above that all have been discussed as 1st round picks, and I only included 1 fringe DT and 1 QB. We could easily see locker and 1 of ponder/mallet/dalton plus another Taylor (KC) and Liguet before us. Or even Derrok Sherrod.

    Someone from the above group will fall to us, no doubt about it....
    Agree...

    Some people start leaping to the worst case scenario saying that nobody we want will be available but they always seem to forget that no matter what, only 29 guys can get selected before the Jets pick. And all of the other teams could care less what the Jets are likely to pick, outside of the handful who have a similar need or want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    I tell them to go pound sand if all they are offering to move up is a 7th round pick. There's no point in moving down if all you're getting back is a 7th, which is just about worthless.

    You don't move from 30 to 34 for anything less than a low 4th/high 5th. And if we're talking a QB to a division rival, that price goes up to a high 4th.

    And in this case I think I'd go with Marvin Austin with that 2nd pick. I also REALLY like Drake Nevis, but he's isn't the greatest fit for the D.
    Sorry,didn't realize the 4th didn't type properly.

    The deal again.
    We give:
    Our 1st #30 overall
    They give us: their 2nd a top 10 pick 33-43.
    Their 4th
    Thier 7th

    We now have:
    2nd Rounder
    3rd rounder
    4th rounders (2)
    5th rounder
    6th rounder
    7th rounder (2)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    Sorry,didn't realize the 4th didn't type properly.

    The deal again.
    We give:
    Our 1st #30 overall
    They give us: their 2nd a top 10 pick 33-43.
    Their 4th
    Thier 7th

    We now have:
    2nd Rounder
    3rd rounder
    4th rounders (2)
    5th rounder
    6th rounder
    7th rounder (2)
    We're having the same conversation in two different threads...

    Anyhow, look at it this way. NE keeps trading back and adding all these picks. Lots of solid players but no game changers.

    My position is, if you can get a special player, a game changer, then you get him. Role players can be had every single year. Depth means nothing without great players. Great players win championships.

    New England has been trading back for the past several years and has been knocked out in the 1st round in the past several years and there's no coincidence there. Missing out on guys like Clay Matthews was a big mistake.

    I'd give away all those 3rds and 4ths for a legitimate shot at getting my hands on someone special.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    not that i ever thought he'd last until thirty...

    unofficially 4.95/40 and a 35-inch vert this morning...should start to put to bed some of the questions about his athleticism and explosion...
    Ya but with all the teams projected to be atleasted interested in QBs, secondary and offense like WRs and such, there's gotta be someone that will fall us, no?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    This is turning out pretty sh*tty for us.

    Heyward and even Wilkerson probably don't make it out of the Top 20-25 now. Nevermind Cameron Jordan and J.J. Watt. Hell, Ballard may not even be there at #30.


    Yeah, I'm feelin' a tradeup right about now.
    maybe/maybe not...it is not a universal opinion from teams that Heyward is a first round pick...its amazing to me but i don't see how Andy Dalton is a 1st round QB and it looks that way as of today...

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