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Thread: DE to OLB Converts

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Im seeing him listed in the 6'4 260-265 range and as a DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4...
    that's my issue with him for the jets. i don't think tanny would knowingly draft someone who has to make the transition from DE to OLB, at least not this year. i think the pick will be a DE like heyward who basically takes over for ellis, or an OLB like ayers who rex can use in various ways. i also think brooks reed could be available. i think the jets are going to come away with a nice player at 30.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    that's my issue with him for the jets. i don't think tanny would knowingly draft someone who has to make the transition from DE to OLB, at least not this year. i think the pick will be a DE like heyward who basically takes over for ellis, or an OLB like ayers who rex can use in various ways. i also think brooks reed could be available. i think the jets are going to come away with a nice player at 30.
    Wouldn't that include Reed too?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Wouldn't that include Reed too?
    tough decisions...not saying the jets would pick reed, but he would be tempting. personally i would rather not pick someone in the first round who necessarily needs to make a positional change

  4. #24
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    how many sacks did Mario Williams get across from Manny Lawson at NC State? Talent is talent. I think Sheard is a more talented player. He has more career sacks, he was the Big East defensive player of the year etc. Ayers was not the pac 10 defensive player of the year.

  5. #25
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    I never understood the logic in this. If I'm a 3-4 team, I'm looking for guys who played OLB in college, can cover and can rush to be OLBs. For my 3-4 DE, I'm either looking for a guy who played DE in college and has the size (> 270 lbs) with a frame that can add a few pounds or a smallish college DT who has good burst (good 10 yard split). It's easier to teach a guy to go forward and attack or hold up a blocker vs. teaching a guy who has always done that to develop coverage instincts. It doesn't happen successfully that often.

    It's almost like basketball. You can get a 'tweener to be a good rebounder and defender because it's as much about attitude and desire, but you rarely find a big man who can defend outside the paint.
    Last edited by CTJetsFanII; 04-07-2011 at 02:31 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Thanks..Definitely not a DE in a traditional 3-4 then..And if I remember you aren't as high on him as some others..
    not a big fan of Sheard- most certainly not @30- how anyone can debate the merits of taking a 6-3/254/4.68s college DE that must transition to OLB over a 6-2.5/254/4.69 (or even 4.75) proven college linebacker that can be a three down defender versus pass/run or rush is mind-boggling...

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    people say Gholston lacked talent and drive... i think that's untrue. How can a guy be in that good shape physically and lack drive? Watch his career, if he ends up in a 4-3 he's gonna be in the league another 5-8 years. Nothing spectacular but he will play and do ok.

    I do believe that making that transition from DE to OLB is very difficult and Gholston is an example of a player that flat out doesn't fit in this defense. It does take about 3-5 years for these guys to stand up and learn to cover... if they ever do.

    this is a troubling thing for players like Quinn, Kerrigan and Houston to be asked to stand up. If i Were Ryan Kerrigan's agent I'd hope he goes to a 4-3 team. I think Reed can do it, he looked pretty good in drills. I also think Sheard is a good enough athlete to do it but again it will take 3 years before we know for sure.

    that's the attraction of akeem ayers by the way, he is big enough for 3-4 olb and doesn't have to learn how to play linebacker. I don't love this player but he's a darkhorse possibly for the pick.
    I disagree with everything you said there.... Vernon Gholston has always had a passion in body building, that doesn't mean he has a passion for football... He can stay in great shape because that is his passion.... And that is just excuses for Gholston that you made. because he played DE PLENTY of times on this team, just asked to attack and get to the QB... He just isn't a good football player. Just because you are a 3-4 OLB doesn't mean you don't play DE, Terrell Suggs fought with his franchise tage being paid as a LB when he played more DE...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    not a big fan of Sheard- most certainly not @30- how anyone can debate the merits of taking a 6-3/254/4.68s college DE that must transition to OLB over a 6-2.5/254/4.69 (or even 4.75) proven college linebacker that can be a three down defender versus pass/run or rush is mind-boggling...
    or over a NT like taylor, or a DE like heyward. one way to look at it is, if talent is more or less equal, it's difficult to justify taking a guy who doesn't fit your defense over several other guys who are basically a plug and play.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTJetsFanII View Post
    I never understood the logic in this. If I'm a 3-4 team, I'm looking for guys who played OLB in college, can cover and can rush to be OLBs. For my 3-4 DE, I'm either looking for a guy who played DE in college and has the size (> 270 lbs) with a frame that can add a few pounds or a smallish college DT who has good burst (good 10 yard split). It's easier to teach a guy to go forward and attack or hold up a blocker vs. teaching a guy who has always done that to develop coverage instincts. It doesn't happen successfully that often.

    It's almost like basketball. You can get a 'tweener to be a good rebounder and defender because it's as much about attitude and desire, but you rarely find a big man who can defend outside the paint.
    1000%....hence why any 3-4 should run like hell from justin houston....

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    how many sacks did Mario Williams get across from Manny Lawson at NC State? Talent is talent. I think Sheard is a more talented player. He has more career sacks, he was the Big East defensive player of the year etc. Ayers was not the pac 10 defensive player of the year.
    Danny Wuerffel won the Heisman it doesn't mean he was a NFL player

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    lol- link???

    then i'll link to plenty of legitimate sources that grade Brooks Reed as a third round choice right now....
    The Chargers have shown "considerable interest" in UCLA LB Akeem Ayers, according to the San Diego Union-Tribune. The Union-Trib calls Ayers a "reach" if he's drafted by San Diego at No. 18 overall, however, and our guess is the Bolts only view him as a second-round target. The Chargers pick at No. 61 overall in round two. It's possible, though not probable, that Ayers' workout numbers could push him that far down the board. Ayers was in San Diego for an official visit last month. Apr 6, 4:56 PM Source: San Diego Union-Tribune
    If u need a link google his roto world page

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Danny Wuerffel won the Heisman it doesn't mean he was a NFL player
    and john elway and peyton manning didn't.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratliff5 View Post
    The Chargers have shown "considerable interest" in UCLA LB Akeem Ayers, according to the San Diego Union-Tribune. The Union-Trib calls Ayers a "reach" if he's drafted by San Diego at No. 18 overall, however, and our guess is the Bolts only view him as a second-round target. The Chargers pick at No. 61 overall in round two. It's possible, though not probable, that Ayers' workout numbers could push him that far down the board. Ayers was in San Diego for an official visit last month. Apr 6, 4:56 PM Source: San Diego Union-Tribune
    If u need a link google his roto world page
    thanks for the quote- its' not the Chargers that like or think Ayers as a round two player- its' a projection by the SD Tribune...for all we know Ayers could be a mid first on the Chargers draft board...

    as far as Reed being a third round value:

    http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...-value-chart-4

  14. #34
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    I still think the 3-4 OLB pass coverage bit is overblown. There is blitzing for both 3-4 and 4-3 but generally I'd assume you do more pass rushing on a regular basis as a 3-4 olb.

    In any case we have guys that can 'cover' and 'hold the fort on run defense'. We need a friggin pass rusher. Whether we can get one where we are at or not I don't know but I could care less how good of a cover guy my olbs are. Or at least one of them.

    Day one of camp, Congrats for being a new york jet, your job is to get to the QB, anything else is secondary.
    Last edited by Beerfish; 04-07-2011 at 05:23 PM.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    I still think the 3-4 OLB pass coverage bit is overblown. There is blitzing for both 3-4 and 4-3 but generally I'd assume you do more pass rushing on a regular basis as a 3-4 olb.

    In any case we have guys that can 'cover' and 'hold the fort on run defense'. We need a friggin pass rusher. Whether we can get one where we are at or not I don't know but I could care less how could of a cover guy my olbs are. Or at least one of them.

    Day one of camp, Congrats for being a new york jet, your job is to get to the QB, anything else is secondary.
    +100!

    Even if the guy is just a situational guy...Get someone who when it's 3rd and 10 you point him at the QB and say "go get him!!!!"

    If its 1st and 10 and he's then on the sideline so be it...So if there is a guy like that in the 3rd or 4th or 5th the Jets need to get him!!!

    I'll take Ayers in the 1st and go after a situational guy in the 3rd, 4th, 5th whatever...

    Anyone like that?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTJetsFanII View Post
    I never understood the logic in this. If I'm a 3-4 team, I'm looking for guys who played OLB in college, can cover and can rush to be OLBs. For my 3-4 DE, I'm either looking for a guy who played DE in college and has the size (> 270 lbs) with a frame that can add a few pounds or a smallish college DT who has good burst (good 10 yard split). It's easier to teach a guy to go forward and attack or hold up a blocker vs. teaching a guy who has always done that to develop coverage instincts. It doesn't happen successfully that often.

    It's almost like basketball. You can get a 'tweener to be a good rebounder and defender because it's as much about attitude and desire, but you rarely find a big man who can defend outside the paint.
    The problem is that there are not too many college LBers at 6'4 260...Most college coaches take bodies like that and put them at DE. Ayers is much more an exception in my mind or you would certainly see more teams targeting proven college LBers for OLBers.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by intothegreen View Post
    The problem is that there are not too many college LBers at 6'4 260...Most college coaches take bodies like that and put them at DE. Ayers is much more an exception in my mind or you would certainly see more teams targeting proven college LBers for OLBers.
    I don't think an OLB needs to be 6'4 260 in a 1 gap 3-4 scheme. I'd say 240 at least. Lawrence Taylor wasn't 260 (yes, I know he hasn't played in a long time). Granted, he needs to have great burst at that weight and a nasty streak. Remember, we have 2 OLBs. One can be more the size you're talking about (like Pace and Thomas). This kid can be on the other side. We use a lot of 4-3 fronts anyway.
    Last edited by CTJetsFanII; 04-07-2011 at 07:05 PM.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTJetsFanII View Post
    I don't think an OLB needs to be 6'4 260 in a 1 gap 3-4 scheme. I'd say 240 at least.
    I dont think Dontay Moch is the next LT. but he's 240, can run his ass off and had 27 career sacks. Unlike Kerrigan and Von Miller (37 and 32 career sacks) he will likely be there at 30...

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    thanks for the quote- its' not the Chargers that like or think Ayers as a round two player- its' a projection by the SD Tribune...for all we know Ayers could be a mid first on the Chargers draft board...

    as far as Reed being a third round value:

    http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...-value-chart-4
    If their value chart holds true, Jets can go Heyward in round 1 and Moch in round 3, which would make me a happy camper.

  20. #40
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    while we are at it, give me Powe at the bottom of round 6.

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