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Thread: DE to OLB Converts

  1. #41
    Guys who don't like Ayers haven't seen to many bruin games ... They complain he ain't a pass rusher ... But he is and a very good one at that.. I hope he's there when we pick at 30... Name me a player in this draft that can cover and blitz at the OlB spot and come in right away and start... that includes Von Miller (he scares me real light in the pants )... I would run at him all day..

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    I dont think Dontay Moch is the next LT. but he's 240, can run his ass off and had 27 career sacks. Unlike Kerrigan and Von Miller (37 and 32 career sacks) he will likely be there at 30...
    He caught my eye, but he was a DE in college and sounds like he might be a straight-liner only.

    Moch holds virtually all of Nevada's pass-rushing records, and was the WAC Defensive Player of the Year in 2009. As an NFL prospect, Moch projects as an outside linebacker, where his speed and quickness off the snap can best be exploited as a pass rusher in the 3-4 scheme, and his ability to run fits well in the 4-3. However, we have seen dominant college pass rushers with stiff hips have trouble at the next level before (see: Gholston, Vernon, former Jets first-round pick). Moch may struggle in the same way.

  3. #43
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    What is the story with troy's Mario Addison

  4. #44
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    Interesting to see Greg Romeus pop up on this thread. What's the general view on him as a possible 3-4 OLB prospect? Is he fluid enough to make the switch? He was certainly a terrific DE prospect before his injury-plagued senior year. He's probably going to go in the 3rd - 4th round range after being projected as a high 1st rounder entering the season. Could he be a steal in the middle rounds, assuming he is mobile enough and healthy enough to contribute this year?

  5. #45
    From this thread we know the transition from college DE to OLB in the pros is difficult. Which draft prospects will have the best chance to make a successful transition ? The bit and pieces I get from this thread. I believe the general consenus is the following ( easy to toughest transition)

    1. Ayers
    2. Reed
    3. Kerrigan
    4. Sheard
    5. Houston

    Is this correct ?
    Can we say the bigger the transition the bigger chance of being a bust ?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by JetOrange View Post
    From this thread we know the transition from college DE to OLB in the pros is difficult. Which draft prospects will have the best chance to make a successful transition ? The bit and pieces I get from this thread. I believe the general consenus is the following ( easy to toughest transition)

    1. Ayers
    2. Reed
    3. Kerrigan
    4. Sheard
    5. Houston

    Is this correct ?
    Can we say the bigger the transition the bigger chance of being a bust ?
    this is an excellent question and tough to answer. Yes Ayers deserves to be at 1 because he is an actual linebacker. Brooks Reed at 2 we can see because of his drills and even a couple interceptions on tape.

    Kerrigan, Sheard there's no real reason to expect them to make the transition. It's a projection with each of em.

    People crap all over Justin Houston but at least he played a year standing up in a 3-4. He's got more experience doing it than everyone on that list but Ayers... probably should be higher... as high as 2.

  7. #47
    So it sounds like Ayers and Reed are the only 2 legitimate (natural) OLB prospects to consider with our first round pick. Sounds like other players would be making the conversion from DE and that scares the heck out of me. Since this draft is deep in DL, I say we fill that need at 30. Get a NT or a 3-4 DE and go for the pass rushing true OLB later if neither of the OLB options is available. We need line help as much as we need a pass rushing OLB. It would be nice to have someone in the front 3 who can generate pressure. If we can get someone like that, then we can hopefully get away with rushing 4 instead of 5 or 6.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by CTJetsFanII View Post
    So it sounds like Ayers and Reed are the only 2 legitimate (natural) OLB prospects to consider with our first round pick.
    Reed is also converting. Ayers played several years at LB. the only real "safe" pick is Ayers. Houston played 1 year at LB. I don't think Houston will be there but if he is they will have to think long and hard about it.

    it should also be noted that we are using the word safe in relation to playing linebacker. there's alot of soft film on Ayers. All of these other names are more dynamic players than Ayers, on film. Ayers misses tackles at times and is far from an ideal prospect.

  9. #49
    I think we the talent we have on defense, and Rex's ability to put players in position to use their strengths Ayers is perfect for us. The more I read about him the more im surprised he is dropping to a point where he could be available for us. Amazing that combine speed is trumping career success.

    Also, for someone with a ton of coverage experience and who will not have to convert to a new position, the guy has 14 career sacks, which isnt crazy, but is also far from indicative that he cant rush the passer.

    On a second note below is part of Dantay Moch's scouting report that focuses on pass rushing ability. I think he could be a good fit for us as a situational pass rusher in year 1 and hopefully can develop into a starter at OLB for next year. If we take a DE/DT with our 1st pick, Id like to see him taken after that.

    Seems like he was used a lot in stunt packages, which definitely bodes well for Rex's defense and blitzes.

    Relentless pass rusher that has the initial burst to turn the corner and shows above average closing speed on film. Above-average lateral quickness and can shoot inside on line stunts. Explosiveness and low center of gravity allow him to rock back tackles despite weight disadvantage. Punch to rip is most consistent move. Torso flexibility is a notch below elite but good and can bend back inside when he gets under tackles' outside shoulder. Experience rushing out of 2-point stance. However, struggles to counter when he doesn't win with first move and Nevada frequently stunted him inside to prevent tackles from locking on during film study. Can open, can get to depth and has the range to develop into an effective zone defender. Fast enough to run with tight ends but rarely dropped into coverage and needs experience to improve in this area. There is some tightness in hips and will have a hard time matching up in man coverage at times

  10. #50
    Most college teams don't run 3-4's if i'm not mistaken.
    Thus better pass rushers are usually 4-3 smaller DE's
    Screw the worry about conversion, if we are picking an olb early it is not because he can cover or play the run okay, it's because he has to be an excellent pass rusher. I don't want an 'okay' olb rusher than can do other things because okay in college means mediocre in the NFL.

    Out of that list of DE/OLBs give me the best pass rusher. If none of the guys on that list can rush the passer well enough to justify a 1st round pick forget that position but take at least two lower down.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Reed is also converting. Ayers played several years at LB. the only real "safe" pick is Ayers. Houston played 1 year at LB. I don't think Houston will be there but if he is they will have to think long and hard about it.

    it should also be noted that we are using the word safe in relation to playing linebacker. there's alot of soft film on Ayers. All of these other names are more dynamic players than Ayers, on film. Ayers misses tackles at times and is far from an ideal prospect.
    If that's the case, then why not try to grab a 3-4 DE at 30 who has good quickness and pass rushing ability? The more pressure we can get from our 2 DEs in our 3-4 front, the less it's neccessary to find (or reach) for the stud OLB. We are a 1 gap 3-4 team, so ideally we'd love to get pressure with 3, maybe a 4th (ala Pace/Thomas). Maybe it's the DE spot we need to focus on more than the OLB at 30.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    I dont think Dontay Moch is the next LT. but he's 240, can run his ass off and had 27 career sacks. Unlike Kerrigan and Von Miller (37 and 32 career sacks) he will likely be there at 30...
    Bit.....two points/questions 1)If we draft a front 7 guy with our first pick( and I say if because I still feel if one of the O-line guys are there that may be where we go), don't you think it unlikely that we would try the converting a DE to OLb again.I don't think we could take a chance on whiffing (Gholston) again. 2) Let's say we're up,nobody we "love" is there,and we get a call from a team who wants a QB,and offers a 2nd(34-40) and a high 3rd.Could Moch be our guy at 34-40?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by CTJetsFanII View Post
    If that's the case, then why not try to grab a 3-4 DE at 30 who has good quickness and pass rushing ability? The more pressure we can get from our 2 DEs in our 3-4 front, the less it's neccessary to find (or reach) for the stud OLB.

    I agree with that... on my short list right now there are 4 DE names and 4 LB names (not much of a short list heh). +

    They will take the highest rated from either group that is still there. All of these players have more than 10 career sacks, a good sign they can rush the passer at the next level.

    DE
    Cam Heyward
    Mo Wilkerson
    Christian Ballard
    Allen Bailey

    LB
    Brooks Reed
    Justin Houston
    Akeem Ayers
    Jabaal Sheard

    of that list, I don't think Houston, Heyward or Wilkerson make it there. the others are coin flips or better they make it to 30.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by section314 View Post
    don't you think it unlikely that we would try the converting a DE to OLb again.I don't think we could take a chance on whiffing (Gholston) again. 2) Let's say we're up,nobody we "love" is there,and we get a call from a team who wants a QB,and offers a 2nd(34-40) and a high 3rd.Could Moch be our guy at 34-40?
    they have to convert DE at some point. Pace and Thomas are both over 30. Gholston didn't work out but they have to backfill at the position. Unless REX wants to run a 4-3 he needs to convert another player.

    In general if a player is worth the 40 pick he's worth the 30 pick. I don't see much of a difference.

    So if we want to add Moch to the "short list" then go for it. he's pretty much on the cusp. I just don't think Tanny has the guts to take a guy from Nevada, one year after getting limited production out of a dude from Boise State.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    this is an excellent question and tough to answer. Yes Ayers deserves to be at 1 because he is an actual linebacker. Brooks Reed at 2 we can see because of his drills and even a couple interceptions on tape.

    Kerrigan, Sheard there's no real reason to expect them to make the transition. It's a projection with each of em.

    People crap all over Justin Houston but at least he played a year standing up in a 3-4. He's got more experience doing it than everyone on that list but Ayers... probably should be higher... as high as 2.
    lol- yeh; people who actually watched the film extensively crap on houston as a 3-4 linebacker because he sh!t the bed constantly when he was asked to stand up and play in space....

    but hey- its' easier to get information trolling internet boards and looking at 40/3cone/s-shuttle numbers than actually doing the real work....

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Most college teams don't run 3-4's if i'm not mistaken.
    Thus better pass rushers are usually 4-3 smaller DE's
    Screw the worry about conversion, if we are picking an olb early it is not because he can cover or play the run okay, it's because he has to be an excellent pass rusher. I don't want an 'okay' olb rusher than can do other things because okay in college means mediocre in the NFL.

    Out of that list of DE/OLBs give me the best pass rusher. If none of the guys on that list can rush the passer well enough to justify a 1st round pick forget that position but take at least two lower down.
    I don't discredit your point of view because it is a valid one, even if I don't whole heartedly agree, however, lots of "okay" college players get picked high in the NFL based on projected better NFL careers and athletic prowess. Okay college player doesn't really equate to mediocre NFL talent, just saying.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcoops View Post
    Interesting to see Greg Romeus pop up on this thread. What's the general view on him as a possible 3-4 OLB prospect? Is he fluid enough to make the switch? He was certainly a terrific DE prospect before his injury-plagued senior year. He's probably going to go in the 3rd - 4th round range after being projected as a high 1st rounder entering the season. Could he be a steal in the middle rounds, assuming he is mobile enough and healthy enough to contribute this year?
    He'd be a guy drafted on tools and possible upside...he sticks where he sticks...I liked him as a 3-4 OLB prospect before the injury, but there others who didn't. Now that he's no longer fully healthy probably not, but he's got the length and frame to throw weight on too...but not the first idea I'd have for a guy with a back problem.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    I agree with that... on my short list right now there are 4 DE names and 4 LB names (not much of a short list heh). +

    They will take the highest rated from either group that is still there. All of these players have more than 10 career sacks, a good sign they can rush the passer at the next level.

    DE
    Cam Heyward
    Mo Wilkerson
    Christian Ballard
    Allen Bailey

    LB
    Brooks Reed
    Justin Houston
    Akeem Ayers
    Jabaal Sheard

    of that list, I don't think Houston, Heyward or Wilkerson make it there. the others are coin flips or better they make it to 30.

    What do you think about JJ Watt from Wisconsin as a 5 technique DE?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by CTJetsFanII View Post
    What do you think about JJ Watt from Wisconsin as a 5 technique DE?
    I think Bit means who might be there for the Jets at 30...JJ Watt will be gone by mid-1st round

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    I think Bit means who might be there for the Jets at 30...JJ Watt will be gone by mid-1st round
    Good point. Looks like he will be gone before 30. Marvin Austin is intriguing as a DE prospect as well.

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