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Thread: The true costs of tickets

  1. #1

    The true costs of tickets

    I'd like to throw out my view of the true costs of tickets and what you have to sell them for on stubhub to breakeven. My assumptions are simple, recover the PSL in 15 years, an interest cost of 5%, exhibition games are worth 50%. Tell me what you think.

    PSL $2,500.00 $5,000.00 $6,000.00

    Ticket Face Price $ 125.00 $125.00 $140.00
    PSL per game $23.72 $47.45 $56.94
    Exhibition game $18.59 $21.56 $24.62
    Ticket Cost $167.31 $194.00 $221.55
    Stubhub fee $29.53 $34.24 $39.10
    Sale price to Break even $196.84 $228.24 $260.65

  2. #2
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    IF YOUR NOT WILLING TO THROW A FEW HUNDERED PER TICKET ... IT DONT REALLY MATTER AFTER THAT

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Mikey Z 6;3996065]IF YOUR NOT WILLING TO THROW A FEW HUNDERED PER TICKET ... IT DONT REALLY MATTER AFTER THAT[/QUOTE]

    I agree, its just that my point is that if someone gets $200 on stubhub for his tix, its pretty much a breake even. I was wondering if people agreed with me.

    Aso, I think the re-sale rule here should be relaxed to at least cover these hidden costs.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=Heynowguy;3996061]I'd like to throw out my view of the true costs of tickets and what you have to sell them for on stubhub to breakeven. My assumptions are simple, recover the PSL in 15 years, an interest cost of 5%, exhibition games are worth 50%. Tell me what you think.

    PSL $2,500.00 $5,000.00 $6,000.00

    Ticket Face Price $ 125.00 $125.00 $140.00
    PSL per game $23.72 $47.45 $56.94
    Exhibition game $18.59 $21.56 $24.62
    Ticket Cost $167.31 $194.00 $221.55
    Stubhub fee $29.53 $34.24 $39.10
    Sale price to Break even $196.84 $228.24 $260.65[/QUOTE]

    I agree it's depressing, but true.

  5. #5
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    Theoretically, you can "recover the cost" of the PSL by selling it. In your 15 year break even scenario, you are assuming that the PSL in your possession is completely valueless.

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=parafly;3996103]Theoretically, you can "recover the cost" of the PSL by selling it. In your 15 year break even scenario, you are assuming that the PSL in your possession is completely valueless.[/QUOTE]

    The value depreciates every year. Average life of a stadium is 30 years.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=Jets340;3996119]The value depreciates every year. Average life of a stadium is 30 years.[/QUOTE]

    That's an interesting theory, but not founded in reality. PSL sales in other stadiums have shown appreciation on the open market, and the same can be said of the small sample size of Giants PSL's for New Meadowlands Stadium.

    [QUOTE]The Giants have set up an Official PSL Marketplace on their website should fans choose to buy and sell them there. Most of the PSLs being offered are in the upper level, where most fans are seeking about double the $1,000 face value. Demand in the mezzanine is much softer in fact, some PSLs are being offered at no more than 20 percent above face value. PSLs for about 20 seats have been tentatively been sold already.[/QUOTE]

    [URL="http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pro_sports/football/giants/Giants_Jets_PSL_market_opens_with_lockout_looming.html?mobile=1"]http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pro_sports/football/giants/Giants_Jets_PSL_market_opens_with_lockout_looming.html?mobile=1[/URL]

    In any case, it doesn't make sense to value a PSL as completely worthless in a 15 year "break even" scenario.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=Heynowguy;3996061]I'd like to throw out my view of the true costs of tickets and what you have to sell them for on stubhub to breakeven. My assumptions are simple, recover the PSL in 15 years, an interest cost of 5%, exhibition games are worth 50%. Tell me what you think.

    PSL $2,500.00 $5,000.00 $6,000.00

    Ticket Face Price $ 125.00 $125.00 $140.00
    PSL per game $23.72 $47.45 $56.94
    Exhibition game $18.59 $21.56 $24.62
    Ticket Cost $167.31 $194.00 $221.55
    Stubhub fee $29.53 $34.24 $39.10
    Sale price to Break even $196.84 $228.24 $260.65[/QUOTE]

    [IMG]http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n114/srubenst/pslgood.jpg[/IMG]

    Fans who can afford $20,000 in PSL's and $6,000 a year in tickets to games that are broadcast for free on TV can also afford the rest of the nonsense that you're mentioning.

    If you can't afford the stadium, too bad. We can, we're happy, no need to continue to try to rain on our parade.

    SAR I
    Last edited by SAR I; 04-07-2011 at 07:02 PM.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=parafly;3996123]That's an interesting theory, but not founded in reality. PSL sales in other stadiums have shown appreciation on the open market, and the same can be said of the small sample size of Giants PSL's for New Meadowlands Stadium.



    [URL="http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pro_sports/football/giants/Giants_Jets_PSL_market_opens_with_lockout_looming.html?mobile=1"]http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pro_sports/football/giants/Giants_Jets_PSL_market_opens_with_lockout_looming.html?mobile=1[/URL]

    In any case, it doesn't make sense to value a PSL as completely worthless in a 15 year "break even" scenario.[/QUOTE]

    For some reason I think psls will hit their peak value like 10 years out. Hopefully the economy will be back on track and football will be as popular as ever. The stadium won't feel too old and people won't be thinking of a replacement yet

    I'm guessing the fact that stadiums don't live forever won't be in people's minds til like year 15 or 20. But this is just a guess of course

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=Heynowguy;3996061]I'd like to throw out my view of the true costs of tickets and what you have to sell them for on stubhub to breakeven. My assumptions are simple, recover the PSL in 15 years, an interest cost of 5%, exhibition games are worth 50%. Tell me what you think.

    PSL $2,500.00 $5,000.00 $6,000.00

    Ticket Face Price $ 125.00 $125.00 $140.00
    PSL per game $23.72 $47.45 $56.94
    Exhibition game $18.59 $21.56 $24.62
    Ticket Cost $167.31 $194.00 $221.55
    Stubhub fee $29.53 $34.24 $39.10
    Sale price to Break even $196.84 $228.24 $260.65[/QUOTE]

    I think your calculations are reasonably fair with a few caveats: Assuming seats the LLEZ (where my seats are and where I have experience selling on SH):

    1. In comparing the cost of the various pricing levels, you have to figure in the risk of loss should you have to sell. Dumping a $2500 PSL quickly might be easier than dumping a $20K PSL quickly. Accordingly, there should be some sort of "carry risk" factor built into your cost model. Not sure what the values should be, but the risk factor should be in there and will vary by pricing level.

    2. Your model doesn't take into account the value of the games that people actually use. That will affect the cost of the PSL. For example, lets say I go to see the Bills, Jags, Bolts, and Chiefs next year. If I sell the Cowboys, Giants, Fins, and Pats, I can probably make enough (after fees) to pay off the PS games, make my PSL Payment for the year, and pay off the tickets to those games. If I do that, the high value games are subsidizing my attendance of the "low value games."

    3. Opportunity Cost affects the value/cost calculation. Let say I choose to attend only the Giants, Cowboys, Fins and Pats games. After fees, it will probably cost me $250 per seat per game if I buy them on SH. Thus it will cost me $800 to attend four games. Season tickets cost $1250+243=1493.00 If I can sell the tickets to the remaining games for a net of fees average price of $115.50, I break even on the deal.

    Bottom line: your model is reasonably fair, but there are other factors that affect the break even and they vary from PSL owner to PSL Owner.

  11. #11
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    free tickets are better

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=SAR I;3996155][IMG]http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n114/srubenst/pslgood.jpg[/IMG]

    Fans who can afford $20,000 in PSL's and $6,000 a year in tickets to games that are broadcast for free on TV can also afford the rest of the nonsense that you're mentioning.

    If you can't afford the stadium, too bad. We can, we're happy, no need to continue to try to rain on our parade.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]

    Please help me understand your comment.

    I did an estimate of what the true cost of tickets are. I asked for people's feedback. Some liked my calcs, other offered suggestions for changes. I don't understand your point. Is it that "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it?"

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=parafly;3996103]Theoretically, you can "recover the cost" of the PSL by selling it. In your 15 year break even scenario, you are assuming that the PSL in your possession is completely valueless.[/QUOTE]

    You make a good point. I'll run a 20 year and a 30 year version.

    At some point a PSL becomes worthless. Isn't Carolina looking to get a new stadium after 15 years? I think our stadium has bUilt in obsolesence with no dome. Also, can the Giants-Jets marriage last 30 years?

    Let me run the numbers and look at it.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=parafly;3996123]That's an interesting theory, but not founded in reality. PSL sales in other stadiums have shown appreciation on the open market, and the same can be said of the small sample size of Giants PSL's for New Meadowlands Stadium.



    [URL="http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pro_sports/football/giants/Giants_Jets_PSL_market_opens_with_lockout_looming.html?mobile=1"]http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pro_sports/football/giants/Giants_Jets_PSL_market_opens_with_lockout_looming.html?mobile=1[/URL]

    In any case, it doesn't make sense to value a PSL as completely worthless in a 15 year "break even" scenario.[/QUOTE]

    At some point it does become worthless. Even Yankee stadium got torn down, Any suggestions as to a time period?

  15. #15

    30 year version for $6,000 PSL

    Ticket Face Price $140.00
    PSL per game $38.65
    Exhibition game $27.16
    Ticket Cost $205.81
    Stubhub fee $36.32
    Sale price to Break even $242.13

  16. #16
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    The whole thing makes me want to puke. Can't see myself ever buying a ticket again, l do have frequent access to free tickets however I decline as I enjoy my home better than what I believe is an awful stadium.

    Add in $30 for parking in a swamp a 1/2 mile from an entrance, white trash drinking their faces off plus paying 3-4 times this for each ticket if I wanted to make a family day of it and bring wife and two kids - not too mention $10 beers and hot dogs.

    Difficult to make this any more appealing?

  17. #17
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    [B]Heynowguy Please help me understand your comment.[/B]

    I've been trying for three years, so let's see if you can get it now.

    [B]I did an estimate of what the true cost of tickets are. I asked for people's feedback. Some liked my calcs, other offered suggestions for changes. I don't understand your point. Is it that "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it?"[/B]

    My point is that it doesn't matter what your calculations say any more now than it did three years ago when you were lobbying fans to stay away because of prices and contracts and greed.

    Doesn't matter at all. Why? The PSL's are 98% sold out, that's why.

    Your math doesn't apply to the upper deck (no PSL, no different than any other stadium with high ticket prices) and it doesn't apply to the Club seats (an inexpensive alternative for corporations who can't afford a suite). So your preaching is to the converted, we're all locked into contracts, we're all happy with our decision, so you're not accomplishing anything except rehashing old arguments for the sake of argumentation.

    You can save yourself a lot of typing by simply saying this:

    "Hey you PSL buyers. You spent too much and the Jets are ripping you off and I laugh at you! Ha ha ha!"

    To which we'll respond:

    "We have the money, it doesn't bother us, we can afford it, we're not surprised, and we don't care who you are or who you're laughing at. You see, those with strong wills and convictions make the money in this world, and its for that reason that you can't relate to us and can't afford seats in the new stadium. We pity you."

    Savvy?

    SAR I

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=Heynowguy;3996268]Ticket Face Price $140.00
    PSL per game $38.65
    Exhibition game $27.16
    Ticket Cost $205.81
    Stubhub fee $36.32
    Sale price to Break even $242.13[/QUOTE]

    Let's say your math is spot-on and the "real" cost of a $140.00 gameday ticket is $242.13.

    Here's our response. You ready? You ready for this? Here it is:

    We. Don't. Care.

    We have the money. We're wealthy. Feel free to create a thread talking about your unemployment blues or how you'll never be able to retire. Telling a bunch of wealthy people that they are burning money that means something to the little people doesn't mean anything to us. We can afford it.

    SAR I

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=Heynowguy;3996249]At some point it does become worthless. Even Yankee stadium got torn down, Any suggestions as to a time period?[/QUOTE]

    Want to know where you're wrong?

    In 20 years, some 10 year old kid that just saw Mark Sanchez go deep in the playoffs back-to-back is going to be 30 years old. And he's going to want to be a season ticket holder for the same reason 80,000 of us do now.

    And a $4000 PSL from 2010 will be worth $6700 on inflation alone. And 30 year olds don't care about depreciating assets and PSL lifespans. They just want in. And that's why they'll pay $7000 for a decent PSL. Because, like me, it's just money and they have plenty of that.

    PSL owners today will make back every penny they invested in the future. And even if there are only 4 or 5 years left on the PSL? Even if its very late in the game? It gets you the right to have primo seniority in 2040 when the PSL investment opportunity comes back again in a new stadium.

    You can't make a [I]financial [/I]argument over an [I]emotional [/I]purchase. It's stupid.

    SAR I

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;3996287]Want to know where you're wrong?

    In 20 years, some 10 year old kid that just saw Mark Sanchez go deep in the playoffs back-to-back is going to be 30 years old. And he's going to want to be a season ticket holder for the same reason 80,000 of us do now.

    And a $4000 PSL from 2010 will be worth $6700 on inflation alone. And 30 year olds don't care about depreciating assets and PSL lifespans. They just want in. And that's why they'll pay $7000 for a decent PSL. Because, like me, it's just money and they have plenty of that.

    PSL owners today will make back every penny they invested in the future. And even if there are only 4 or 5 years left on the PSL? Even if its very late in the game? It gets you the right to have primo seniority in 2040 when the PSL investment opportunity comes back again in a new stadium.

    [b]You can't make a [I]financial [/I]argument over an [I]emotional [/I]purchase.[/b] It's stupid.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]We understand, and some of us are happy for you, but you could've saved 500 posts by saying that first. :D

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