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Thread: Rex Ryan revisits Vernon Gholston failure

  1. #1
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    Rex Ryan revisits Vernon Gholston failure

    Rex on Vernon.

    [QUOTE]By Tim Graham - ESPN

    When Rex Ryan took over as New York Jets head coach, his general attitude toward pass-rusher Vernon Gholston was bullish.

    Ryan thought if he couldn't develop Gholston, then nobody could.

    After three NFL seasons and two under Ryan, the Jets released Gholston in March. The sixth overall draft choice in 2008 never got it. He started five games, was a healthy scratch three times and recorded zero sacks.

    Vernon Gholston was the No. 6 overall pick in the 2008 NFL draft.
    At the NFL owners meeting in New Orleans a couple weeks ago, I had a chance to speak to Ryan for the first time since the Jets cut Gholston.

    Ryan was little defensive about not being able to mold Gholston into an effective player.

    Ryan claimed circumstances got in the way. Gholston went from 4-3 defensive end at Ohio State to 3-4 outside linebacker with the Jets under previous head coach Eric Mangini to 3-4 defensive end last year under Ryan.

    The Jets also added Trevor Pryce during the season, an acquisition Ryan said hurt Gholston's snap count.

    "I think Vernon improved," Ryan said. "Last year, I thought he gained strides. Unfortunately, I never knew this when we picked up Trevor and he played well for us, but that took a little away from Vernon. We had Shaun Ellis, so it was kind of hard to get [Gholston] more reps.

    "But the guy is an excellent teammate. He did what was asked and he got better."

    Even so, the Jets dumped him. Ryan spent a lot of time talking up Gholston to reporters and expressing optimism he would become a productive defender. Given that, I asked Ryan if he failed when it came to Gholston.

    "[B]Well, then I failed as far as the numbers go[/B]," Ryan said. "But I thought he got better, though. We'll see what happens to him. He's not done playing.

    "I think I've had a long list of guys I've developed in my coaching career. Some guys develop faster than others. But I'll put how I coach up against anybody in this league when it comes to defense and technique."

    Gholston will go down as one of the biggest draft busts in Jets history and a rare miss in recent years. The pick hurts even more because pass rushing is one of the Jets' biggest weaknesses.

    Mangini was head coach and had influence when the Jets drafted Gholston. He's gone now, but general manager Mike Tannenbaum and vice president of college scouting Joey Clinkscales remain in place.

    "I think Vernon still has the chance to have a productive NFL career," Tannenbaum said in New Orleans. "Obviously, he didn't play to the level of the sixth pick in the draft, but he's a great kid. His career is far from over.

    "We'll have to look at our scouting process and have to see what we can learn from that experience."

    [URL="http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/39162/rex-ryan-revisits-vernon-gholston-failure"]Rex Ryan revisits Vernon Gholston failure[/URL][/QUOTE]

  2. #2
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    If he cost the Jets the league minimum, they might have kept him around, but with the $$$ he was commanding his time was up.
    Last edited by Long Suffering Jets Fan; 04-09-2011 at 10:05 AM. Reason: left out a word

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    I'll say this; It would be easy for Rex to say nothing about the Ghost since it wasnt his pick...but from the beginning he has been more than fair to the guy.

    Prolly telling Tanny behind closed doors "you owe me, doosh".

    :D

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    [QUOTE=32green;3997189]Prolly telling Tanny behind closed doors "you owe me, doosh".

    :D[/QUOTE]


    ... :clapper: ... hahahahahahahahaah ... :clapper: ...











    l_j_r

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    I truly believe if Rex could not make a football player out of this guy nobody will..Vern needs to get into professional bodybuilding..

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    enough talk IMO about bad rubbish that the Jets are now thankfully and finally rid of

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    Gholston was a blown pick. This is not the first it's happened to the Jets and probably won't be the last. Blown picks are a common occurrence to most any NFL team. They've all had theirs.Sh%t happens. You live and you learn. Lets get over this thing. For the most part, Tanny is still a very good GM.

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    [QUOTE=Mainejet;3997248]Gholston was a blown pick. This is not the first it's happened to the Jets and probably won't be the last. Blown picks are a common occurrence to most any NFL team. They've all had theirs.Sh%t happens. You live and you learn. Lets get over this thing. For the most part, Tanny is still a very good GM.[/QUOTE]

    all drafts are not equal. In retrospect the Gholston draft was very weak on pass rushers. In this 2011 draft Gholston is probably a top 25 grade not a top 10 grade. It shouldn't work that way but it's an art not a science. there are like 8 or 9 defensive ends with first round grades, that year it wasn't the case.


    still i dont see a better pick... even with Gholston's "Failure" would Derrick Harvey or Sedrick Ellis been better picks? McKelvin? who exactly where they supposed to pick? McFadden was gone, everyone wanted him... also not an amazing pick (been injured alot).

    also this last comment is probably gonna get me reamed but i refuse to quantify Gholston's career as a failure. For the Jets yeah he produced nothing.

    BUt from his perspective he never fit this 3-4 system. IN a 4-3 like Stl, TB or any number of NFC teams he'd probably be just fine. He will probably never live up to top 10 expectations but he will earn an NFL paycheck for many seasons.

    I dont believe the Jets should shy away from muscled, fast, sack producing players from football factories just because of Gholston. they took a shot, it didn't work out but that's the draft. the Jets actually have drafted very well lately compared to the failures around the league. They have a top 5 draft record in the last few years. the Revis, Mangold, Brick, Sanchez picks were ridiculously good relative to the players that other teams are taking. it's usually a 50/50 shot in the first round, and even that is debatable as there were many years in the 80s 90s where the Jets got nothing in the draft.
    Last edited by bitonti; 04-09-2011 at 12:51 PM.

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    [QUOTE=Mainejet;3997248]Gholston was a blown pick. This is not the first it's happened to the Jets and probably won't be the last. Blown picks are a common occurrence to most any NFL team. They've all had theirs.Sh%t happens. You live and you learn. Lets get over this thing. For the most part, Tanny is still a very good GM.[/QUOTE]

    agreed. Bit cites other players from that draft as examples of "who would have been better" etc. We do not know at this time. They are still developing as Gholston is. McKelvin would have looked good in Green & White though.

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    [QUOTE=Mainejet;3997248]Gholston was a blown pick. This is not the first it's happened to the Jets and probably won't be the last. Blown picks are a common occurrence to most any NFL team. They've all had theirs.Sh%t happens. You live and you learn. Lets get over this thing. For the most part, Tanny is still a very good GM.[/QUOTE]

    Derrick Harvey was 8th overall.

    Aaron Maybin was 11th overall.

    Both of these guys suck just as much and were taken nearly as high. Over the years there are scores of other guys that were taken even higher who were just as bad. It happens.

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    AS I'm posting the past ten #6 selections is on NFLN.

    Russell Okung
    [B]Andre Smith[/B]
    [B]Vernon Gholston[/B]
    LaRon Landry
    Vernon Davis
    [B]Adam Jones[/B]
    Kellen Winslow
    Johnathan Sullivan
    [B]Ryan Sims[/B]
    Richard Seymour

    [B]That's a 40% Disaster Rate[/B]

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=David Harris;3997441]Derrick Harvey was 8th overall.

    Aaron Maybin was 11th overall.

    Both of these guys suck just as much and were taken nearly as high. Over the years there are scores of other guys that were taken even higher who were just as bad. It happens.[/QUOTE]

    Its OK because everyone does it.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;3997273]all drafts are not equal. In retrospect the Gholston draft was very weak on pass rushers. In this 2011 draft Gholston is probably a top 25 grade not a top 10 grade. It shouldn't work that way but it's an art not a science. there are like 8 or 9 defensive ends with first round grades, that year it wasn't the case.


    still i dont see a better pick... even with Gholston's "Failure" would Derrick Harvey or Sedrick Ellis been better picks? McKelvin? who exactly where they supposed to pick? McFadden was gone, everyone wanted him... also not an amazing pick (been injured alot).

    also this last comment is probably gonna get me reamed but i refuse to quantify Gholston's career as a failure. For the Jets yeah he produced nothing.

    BUt from his perspective he never fit this 3-4 system. IN a 4-3 like Stl, TB or any number of NFC teams he'd probably be just fine. He will probably never live up to top 10 expectations but he will earn an NFL paycheck for many seasons.

    I dont believe the Jets should shy away from muscled, fast, sack producing players from football factories just because of Gholston. they took a shot, it didn't work out but that's the draft. the Jets actually have drafted very well lately compared to the failures around the league. They have a top 5 draft record in the last few years. the Revis, Mangold, Brick, Sanchez picks were ridiculously good relative to the players that other teams are taking. it's usually a 50/50 shot in the first round, and even that is debatable as there were many years in the 80s 90s where the Jets got nothing in the draft.[/QUOTE]

    I wanted to move back and get Joe Flacco, myself.

    Anyway, my big issue with the Gholston pick--I mean beyond the fact that most of the people slagging him were sporting avatars of Gholston's biceps and lines like "Sign this beast!" before the draft--was that he was such a mediocre college player. Forget his sack totals, forget his combine numbers--if you watched tape of Gholston, he was the same invisible presence he has been in the pros. There was never anything explosive or instinctive about his game in college.

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    Well in hindsight we should have taken Chris Johnson but who knew.

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    The problem isnt just "who else could we have taken with that pick"?
    Its also "what else could we have done with all that wasted money" (salary cap-wise, in signing FA's too).

    If no one in that entire first round (after pick #5) panned out well, we (in hindsight) would have been better off announcing..."With Pick #6 in Round #1 of the draft, the NY Jets intentionally forfeit their pick"...:D

    Look at all the cap space we would have saved over the last 3 years if we hadnt taken Gholston!
    We could have easily used that money and picked up 2 MAJOR ball-players as FA's. Maybe a top Safety FA so that knucklehead Eric Smith wouldnt be in uniform, or a real back-up TE so that clown Hartsock wouldnt have screwed up every down he played for us...

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    [QUOTE=David Harris;3997441]Derrick Harvey was 8th overall.

    Aaron Maybin was 11th overall.

    Both of these guys suck just as much and were taken nearly as high. Over the years there are scores of other guys that were taken even higher who were just as bad. It happens.[/QUOTE]

    +1

    I love how the Jets-haters act like Vanessa Gholston is the only OLB/DE prospect to ever bust in the NFL. It's very difficult to find an elite pass rusher. Gholston had all the physical tools and he performed at an elite level in college facing top competition. Sh*t happens.

  17. #17
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    Ghoston was the Kyle Brady of defenders for the Jets, big, strong, and stiff.

    And I, Jetswin, like um' big and stiff....know what I mean, eh, eh?;)
    Last edited by Warfish; 04-11-2011 at 09:59 AM.

  18. #18
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    Anyone who recalls the Draft that year with honesty knows that Ghost wasn't a "blown pick" in any form.

    He is a huge bust, yes. But not the wrong pick or a blwon pick, given the circumstances at that time and where the Jets pick was. He was the best available, on almost every single draft board, and at a position of deep need (still is a deep need).

    The Ghost pick was logical and the right pick at the time. It's only in hindsight and after Ghost did nothign with his opportunities, that it looks like a "bad pick".

    It wasn't. It was the right pick, and a bad player. The blame here is on Ghost, not on Tanny or even (can;t beleive I'm going to defend the tub of crap) Mangini.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;3998113]Anyone who recalls the Draft that year with honesty knows that Ghost wasn't a "blown pick" in any form.

    He is a huge bust, yes. But not the wrong pick or a blwon pick, given the circumstances at that time and where the Jets pick was. He was the best available, on almost every single draft board, and at a position of deep need (still is a deep need).

    The Ghost pick was logical and the right pick at the time. It's only in hindsight and after Ghost did nothign with his opportunities, that it looks like a "bad pick".

    It wasn't. It was the right pick, and a bad player. The blame here is on Ghost, not on Tanny or even (can;t beleive I'm going to defend the tub of crap) Mangini.[/QUOTE]

    I recall him always being a boom or bust prospect but given our needs and how the board fell it was worth a shot. Many said at the time that he could either be the best pick of the entire draft or a total bust.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;3998076]Ghoston was the Kyle Brady of defenders for the Jets, big, strong, and stiff.

    And I, Jetswin, like um' big and stiff....know what I mean, eh, eh?;)[/QUOTE]
    [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2lbjos4.gif[/IMG]



    lol, wait...wut?

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