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Thread: The Human Cost of Budget Cuts

  1. #1
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    The Human Cost of Budget Cuts

    Couldn't help being touched by this article, which reflects the deep economic problems many of our citizens face. I don't get the impression these are deadbeats or illegals or exploiters... just ordinary folk who are caught in a vicious cycle at the tail end of the trickledown. Remind me somewhat of the dustbowlers like Tom Joad in Grapes of Wrath who blamed themselves for failure in the Great Depression. I would hope that when the budget knife comes down, there is some discrimination about where it lands. One less cruise missile will keep a lot of people with food and electricity through tough times...

    [URL]http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-southwest-virginia-a-chasm-between-need-and-assistance/2011/04/16/AFSEAlqD_gallery.html?hpid=z1[/URL]

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    A fact-free, detail-free heart-string-pulling political puff piece, from the Washington Post......shocker.

    Everything the "oh noes, soon to be defunded" groups listed provide, is already provided for via existing Federal and State Assistence Programs. And frankly, there comes a time if your town has died, move. Don;t expect handouts to keep your dead town alive in Zombiemode.

    Or to quote the esteemed Liberal Bitonti: There is no right to live where you want. Why should the Govt. subsidize those who want to live out in the middle of nowhere. They should move into the cities, into DC instead, and get jobs there. Plenty of work in DC, or Richmond, for those willing to work.

    This is propaganda, of the worst stripe, to protect political power and defend partisan politics.

  3. #3
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    They should just change industries.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4002845]A fact-free, detail-free heart-string-pulling political puff piece, from the Washington Post......shocker.

    Everything the "oh noes, soon to be defunded" groups listed provide, is already provided for via existing Federal and State Assistence Programs. And frankly, there comes a time if your town has died, move. Don;t expect handouts to keep your dead town alive in Zombiemode.

    Or to quote the esteemed Liberal Bitonti: There is no right to live where you want. Why should the Govt. subsidize those who want to live out in the middle of nowhere. They should move into the cities, into DC instead, and get jobs there. Plenty of work in DC, or Richmond, for those willing to work.

    This is propaganda, of the worst stripe, to protect political power and defend partisan politics.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, please give me more statistics and charts. Who cares about actual people? :confused:

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    [QUOTE=FF2;4002869]Yes, please give me more statistics and charts. Who cares about actual people? :confused:[/QUOTE]

    And how much did YOU give to charity last year, smartass?

    It's funny, the takers in our society are "people", but apparently those the State takes from, without their permission, aren't.

    And again, nice derail, but everythng the Post Atticle is lamenting being defunded, can be still be aquired from ongoing Federal and State Programs.

    Dodge the fact all you like, but we have dozens of duplicative programs, some can be defunded and Govt. would likely run better AND More efficiently.

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    Looks like the actual article got lost somehow and is now a picture show. Warfish seems to know about a whole host of programs and services from the state of West Virginia and the Feds that these agencies don't know about. In fact they're so bad at their job that they may close down themselves. But then all that duplication is just a waste of resources, I guess. And besides, they could just move, like the guy in the article who tried but didn't have enough money for the security and the rent which would have allowed him to relocate and seek employment in another town. There's also the assumption that basic public assistance programs can cover any expense, even though they don't.

    My point was not that people shouldn't try to do whatever they can; my point was that we need to make a decision about what's most important when weighing each program that faces cuts. For me, crisis services are an important component to sustain, given the state of our economy. But, hey, that's just me. Don't expect our Darwinian friends to agree. Screw those starving kids and families losing homes. Too dumb to get an education or move? Let em die... :rolleyes:

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4002887]And how much did YOU give to charity last year, smartass?

    It's funny, the takers in our society are "people", but apparently those the State takes from, without their permission, aren't.

    And again, nice derail, but everythng the Post Atticle is lamenting being defunded, can be still be aquired from ongoing Federal and State Programs.

    Dodge the fact all you like, but we have dozens of duplicative programs, some can be defunded and Govt. would likely run better AND More efficiently.[/QUOTE]

    What's interesting is the studies that show conservatives give more to charities than liberals. While I'm sure the studies can be tweaked in either direction (based on who is conducting it), it really shouldn't even be close based on liberal rhetoric.

    Just proves it's a lot easier to give away someone else's money . . .

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4002887]we have dozens of duplicative programs, some can be defunded and Govt. would likely run better AND More efficiently.[/QUOTE]

    I see. If they had less money, they would run better.

    You are not that dumb.

    Are you? :confused:

    (And BTW, I give alot, including my time.)

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=FF2;4003010]I see. If they had less money, they would run better.

    You are not that dumb.

    Are you? :confused:[/quote]

    I could ask you the same question, given the lack of critical thinking in that reply.:rolleyes:

    [quote](And BTW, I give alot, including my time.)[/QUOTE]

    Sure you do. Easy to say anything on the interweb, ain't it?

    If you do great, you prove the point that freedom works. You gave freely, and good on you for doing so.

    If I told you you must (under penalty of law) come wash my car, I doub't you'd be so giving.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4003027]I could ask you the same question, given the lack of critical thinking in that reply.:rolleyes:



    Sure you do. Easy to say anything on the interweb, ain't it?

    If you do great, you prove the point that freedom works. You gave freely, and good on you for doing so.

    If I told you you must (under penalty of law) come wash my car, I doub't you'd be so giving.[/QUOTE]

    Dude, you asked the question, I answered it. Sorry if you doubt my word. FTR although I'm an atheist I picked up my parents habit of tithing. I also serve on the BoD for my local food pantry and an educational foundation.

    Wash your car? Did you recently suffer a blow to your head?

    I'd be happy to see my tax money go to help you if you were ill or hungry. HAPPY. I hope you are never in that position because I'm sure you would have to turn away any help.
    Last edited by FF2; 04-18-2011 at 12:13 AM.

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    [QUOTE=FF2;4003029]Did you recently suffer a blow to your head?[/QUOTE]

    You Libs are hi-larious.

    When beaten, all you have are lame one liners.

    :zzz:

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4003031]You Libs are hi-larious.

    When beaten, all you have are lame one liners.

    :zzz:[/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry you feel that way. I try and explain my positions clearly.

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    It's not going to get better with our current tepid rebound coupled with inflation that's going to put another portion of our population into poverty through inflation.

    Unending wars, bad tax policy, failed regulators, short term liabilities paid with long term debt, underfunding pensions to hide huge deficits to placate Unions, etc., etc., etc.

    We are getting poorer and we can't afford a 1970's government in 2011.

    By the way did you notice that Hancock who had the hole in her ceiling doesn't look like she missed a meal in a couple of decades, smokes and has 3 dogs on her bed 3. Quit smoking, go on a diet, get rid of 2 dogs and fix your bathroom ceiling.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 04-18-2011 at 07:00 AM.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4003027]I could ask you the same question, given the lack of critical thinking in that reply.:rolleyes:



    Sure you do. Easy to say anything on the interweb, ain't it?

    If you do great, you prove the point that freedom works. You gave freely, and good on you for doing so.

    If I told you you must (under penalty of law) come wash my car, I doub't you'd be so giving.[/QUOTE]

    I think what you're refusing to acknowledge is that there are choices to be made. Even if there are draconian budget cuts, whether state or federal, the question will remain how to distribute what is actually available. It's actually rather childish to take the stance that in a fantasy world nobody should get anything and there should be no taxes therefore screw everybody. Not to mention that you seem incredibly bitter and angry. Whether conservative or liberal, people give their time and money because they care and because they can empathise with somebody who is down. Are you really as cold as you're portraying in your internet guise?

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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;4002907]Looks like the actual article got lost somehow and is now a picture show. Warfish seems to know about a whole host of programs and services from the state of West Virginia and the Feds that these agencies don't know about. In fact they're so bad at their job that they may close down themselves. But then all that duplication is just a waste of resources, I guess. And besides, they could just move, like the guy in the article who tried but didn't have enough money for the security and the rent which would have allowed him to relocate and seek employment in another town. There's also the assumption that basic public assistance programs can cover any expense, even though they don't.

    My point was not that people shouldn't try to do whatever they can; my point was that we need to make a decision about what's most important when weighing each program that faces cuts. For me, crisis services are an important component to sustain, given the state of our economy. But, hey, that's just me. Don't expect our Darwinian friends to agree. Screw those starving kids and families losing homes. Too dumb to get an education or move? Let em die... :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    Go on Google maps and look at all the other towns within an hour's drive. They don't have to sit in that dying town with their hands out to the government. Of course Obama's dream od $10/gallon gas would make that a pipe dream.

    I drive an hour (on a good day) to work each day to put food on the table and a nice roof over my family's head. Why can't they drive 1.5 hours to get to Winston-Salem, NC?

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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;4003070]I think what you're refusing to acknowledge is that there are choices to be made. Even if there are draconian budget cuts, whether state or federal, the question will remain how to distribute what is actually available. It's actually rather childish to take the stance that in a fantasy world nobody should get anything and there should be no taxes therefore screw everybody. Not to mention that you seem incredibly bitter and angry. Whether conservative or liberal, people give their time and money because they care and because they can empathise with somebody who is down. Are you really as cold as you're portraying in your internet guise?[/QUOTE]

    What Warfish is saying is that, as the libs like to say about "rich people", when is enough enough? How much do I have to be FORCED to pay to someone because they don't want to put forth the effort? I have spoken to too many people that say they may as well collect unemployment rather than look for a job because the money is about the same. That isn't the point of unemployment. It is supposed to bridge you to your next job in case you lose your current one. These people just want to live on the dole for as long as possible then they complain when it runs out that they can't find a job. Unemployment also pays for job training but it isn't taken advantage of.

    I have never seen Warfish say there shouldn't be any taxes. Just that they should be low and the government shouldn't be looking to pay for everything. If you are down on your luck there are charities to help. There are food kitchens in most cities so no one should be going hungry. Paying rediculous money for programs to help a very small minority (Obamacare) is not worth my tax money in my opinion.

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    [QUOTE=Trades;4003089]What Warfish is saying is that, as the libs like to say about "rich people", when is enough enough? How much do I have to be FORCED to pay to someone because they don't want to put forth the effort? I have spoken to too many people that say they may as well collect unemployment rather than look for a job because the money is about the same. That isn't the point of unemployment. It is supposed to bridge you to your next job in case you lose your current one. These people just want to live on the dole for as long as possible then they complain when it runs out that they can't find a job. Unemployment also pays for job training but it isn't taken advantage of.

    I have never seen Warfish say there shouldn't be any taxes. Just that they should be low and the government shouldn't be looking to pay for everything. If you are down on your luck there are charities to help. There are food kitchens in most cities so no one should be going hungry. Paying rediculous money for programs to help a very small minority (Obamacare) is not worth my tax money in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

    You seem to be confusing Unemployment Insurance with Public Assistance. You have to meet minimum work criteria to recieve unemployment; you have to have lost the job through "no fault of your own" (meaning laid off); you have to continue seeking work and be available to work if DOL offers it; you get paid an average benefit of about 35-40% of what you had previously earned; and it's taxable. The availability of jobs through DOL will be virtually non-existent in a time of high unemployment. Now you may think that people just love to be unemployed and bringing in 40% of what they had previously earned. I'm not sure whom you're talking to... they must be complete idiots.

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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;4003100]You seem to be confusing Unemployment Insurance with Public Assistance. You have to meet minimum work criteria to recieve unemployment; you have to have lost the job through "no fault of your own" (meaning laid off); you have to continue seeking work and be available to work if DOL offers it; you get paid an average benefit of about 35-40% of what you had previously earned; and it's taxable. The availability of jobs through DOL will be virtually non-existent in a time of high unemployment. Now you may think that people just love to be unemployed and bringing in 40% of what they had previously earned. I'm not sure whom you're talking to... they must be complete idiots.[/QUOTE]

    I used unemployment as an example because it is one that I have had an experience with other people wasting. There are many "able-bodied" people taking hand outs rather than working. There are a lot of people that would rather to nothing for little than something for more.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;4003070]Are you really as cold as you're portraying in your internet guise?[/QUOTE]

    It's "tough love" baby. :D

    The Fist doesn't need me to defend him but I am sure he is a caring, generous person. But when discussing issues such as this, he can get a little heated (as we all can) because of our strong beliefs. Although I disagree with them, I respect his views.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;4003070]I think what you're refusing to acknowledge is that there are choices to be made.[/quote]

    Where is my "choice"? The State takes whatever it wishes, to pay for whetever it wishes, I have no "choice" whatsoever. In the hands of an "Big Powerful Govt." group of leaders, what they take is alot and what they spend it on is not (IMO) all approprioate.

    [QUOTE]Even if there are draconian budget cuts[/QUOTE]

    Save the colorful rhetoric. "Draconian".:rolleyes:

    [QUOTE]the question will remain how to distribute what is actually available.[/QUOTE]

    Existing Federal and State Programs handle distribution just fine. Again, the issue is consolidation and efficiency, not funding.

    [QUOTE]It's actually rather childish to take the stance that in a fantasy world nobody should get anything and there should be no taxes therefore screw everybody.[/QUOTE]

    Funny, aren't you the one whining about puttng words into other poeples mouths just a few days ago? At no time have I suppoerted "no taxes" or "nobody should get anything". Never.

    [quote]Are you really as cold as you're portraying in your internet guise?[/QUOTE]

    More colorful emotion-based rhetoric, just like calling someone a racist/homophone/bigot, the only intention of a line like this is to paint yoru political opposite as some cold-hearted evil, and yourself as some big-hearted saint.

    It's not worth responding to, tbh. Being against some aspects of the Social Welfare/Entitlement State does not, in fact, make one "cold". Being a huge supporter of a dominant, all-powerful, confiscatory Social Welfare State does not make one big-hearted or "warm" either.

    Stick to policy, if you please.

    [QUOTE=Trades;4003089]I have never seen Warfish say there shouldn't be any taxes.[/quote]

    On the contrary, I fully support taxation as a means of funding the vital responsabilities of our Federal Govt. as laid out in the Constitution. However, I do not support the use of the tax code as a political weapon, or as a tool for social engineering attempts, or any other non-funding-of-vitals way it's used today. I also do not support inherantly inequal treatment of individuals based purely upon their success, success which (despite liberal claims) comes in the majority from effort and motivation, not "on the backs of the poor" as is so often claimed. I also do not support inefficent massive Govt. (IRS) for what could be vastly cheaper to operate and far more efficent to do, i.e. Flat/Fair Tax. I'm even open on the percentages, if the percentage can be backed by vital constituional need/appropriateness.

    What LiL doesn;t like, and why he attacks so, is because I do not support a Euro-Style, Cover-um-all Social welfare State as he seems to. where any "need" is cobered, work is optional, and taxes are in the 50%+ area. All one needs to see is his deep admiration for teh Socialist/Welfare States of Denmark/Norway to see the kind of system he prefers.

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