the wars we built the f-35 for do not exist anymore. We are still using cold war tactics but there is no USSR out there who will put out a better fighter that the f35 is needed. our enemies live in caves.
The f15, f16, f18 still kick tons of ass. we dont even use the f22. the stealth bomber is a badass. We dont need any more bad ass jet fighters... unless they are space fighters to take out satellites or some cutting edge thing.
Heck I think the apache and A-10, Harrier combo is a badass as well. WE don't really need f35.
I'm an educator, so I believe in the power of education. But it's a SIN how much money is wasted, all in the name of the latest mandate. We should be able to do SO much more with SO much less -- throwing more money at it is NOT the answer . . .
Good thread here. A lot of great answers and ideas. Shows that this government really needs to listen to the people who have knowledge
The War to End all Wars. There will never be another War, not after this one. Right?
What do you think, Bit, the odds are that in the 4000 odd years of War-filled human history, WE managed to come round right at the time International Conflict has been "solved" and War no longer a possabillity? Man, we must be hella lucky. We live in the Era of Peace in Our Time.
You'd almost think we're not in three Wars right now, wouldnt'cha?
Apache, A10 and Harrier are nice. Not against real fighter aircraft though. I still like the Cobra in an anti personnel role more than Apache.
The Chinese are making a lot of noise. The Russians are increasing their budget for military hardware. We need to stay cutting edge but do so with a business like approach. Strong controls. Military people are not business oriented. Most Senators and Congressmen have little idea about proper business and management techniques. Materiel needs to be developed and done so in a tightly controlled budget environment.
The apache is not only nice it's a modern marvel and far more useful against cave dwellers than an f35.
you guys bring up the Chinese and Russians... it's not gonna happen. Yes Warfish globalization is here and the Chinese can't conquer us, who is gonna buy all their crap? Why bother conquering a nation when you can just buy all it's debt?
there is no more first world vs first world wars. there are first world vs third world conflicts but the big wars are over. It's bad for business.
The NWO (Elite) vs everyone else
Here is my background and why I rate our weapons systems. I was once a Fire Control Officer. That's a guy who identifies targets and calls in various attack systems - artillery of various types, gunships, tactical air. I did it in combat. You use various weapons based on capability and seriousness of threat. The Apache is nice as I said. It was developed and, in fact, is most effective against armor (tanks) and other hard targets (using a 30mm cannon and Hellfire missiles). It is essentially overkill against light targets. It is effective in a armor environment but frankly terribly slow. The Cobra (still in use) has a better anti personnel weapons package and more weapons flexibility and is clearly faster. It is not as survivable, however.
As far as A10 and the Harrier, a similar concept. Ground support. Our pilots are good and well trained. But they are not all things to all people. The planes are not going to deal with MIGs and other modern variants. I'm not going to be the guy who thinks only "our people" are any good. Recognize the enemy'ds strengths and capabilities.
I do not know what type wars the future may bring. But I clearly want our men to be prepared with the best possible, not 30+ year old equipment.
maybe im oversimplifying but seems to me the only one out there is the f22 and it has no enemies.
As such, I doubt you or I would know (or understand the details) of the why, tbh.
No maybe about it. We're all ignorant layman tbh, on this topic. What we would need is either a top rank Air Force/Navy brass type, or maybe a Lookheed -Martin Top-line Engineer to actually get an understanding, pro or con.maybe im oversimplifying
Best we can do is is say "being ultra-modern and #1 is good, even if expesive as hell" or "We can be #2, or #3 or worse, and thats ok, it's too expensive to stay #1". Either way, it's probably an uninformed view regardless.
fact: the f22 is real, out there and hasn't been used in Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya. when are we planning to use this thing? when the aliens come down like independence day?
the army is all pack-bots and drones these days it's not the f35 dogfighting
Doubt we have any of those here either. Self-professed don't count.
F-22 has been a huge failure. A costly one too. It happens.fact: the f22 is real, out there and hasn't been used in Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya. when are we planning to use this thing? when the aliens come down like independence day?
If we judged a litany of social programs the same way, we'd have alot less social programs Bit.
Our Army uses drones. Not sure anyone else does.the army is all pack-bots and drones these days it's not the f35 dogfighting
See Bit, a basic disagreement you and I have here is that you beleive the U.S. will never again be in a real Conventional War. You have claimed many times that such Wars (i.e. Vietman, Korea, WWII, etc) will never happen again, are impossible in fact. If you truly believe that, then sure, your view would make sense, as would gutting millitary spending.
I just don't agree with you. It's the single most basic function of human nature, war and killing your fellow man for some slight or some thing he has you want. I don't doubt for a seconed that the U.S. will be in another knock-down, drag-out, for survival Conventional Plae+Tank+Infantry War one day. And on that day, I hope we're the best, both in Soldiers and in tehcnology.
It is very rare for an old design to be consistently effective. THe B52 is the only one I can think of. But, it would never be used now as originally designed. It is used where there is no enemy airpower or anti aircraft. It is also now potentially used as a stand off cruise missile launch unit. As srted earlier, the Navy version of the F15 (the F14) is no wlonger in service. Doesn't say much for the F15s future.
The F16 is well over 30 years old and the F18 almost 30. The have relatively short range and speed is ok. The F35 in addition to other things is a stealth fighter plus it has long range. It's called progress.
speaking of which let me know when Bin Ladin gets in a jet fighter
China, Russia and India are not our enemies. they are Allies... at least economically
a place like iran or nK might be possible enemies... and they can't hang with the f22 let alone the f35.
end of the day defense is a bigger jobs program than any part of welfare. they are building weapons that no one needs, at 150 million dollars a piece.
Last edited by bitonti; 04-25-2011 at 01:49 PM.