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Thread: Am I the only one who thinks Newton SHOULD be number one ?

  1. #1
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    Am I the only one who thinks Newton SHOULD be number one ?

    The guy is phenomenal! Has the it factor , I dont understand why people bash him ?

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    Because most think he's too green and has a long learning curve ahead of him?

    Other than that?

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    visit the draft forum. you'll find the answer to your question there

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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsFever06 View Post
    The guy is phenomenal! Has the it factor , I dont understand why people bash him ?
    Number One What?

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    I agree with Original poster. Newton has the highest physical upside at the game's most important position.

    there aren't 250 pound QBs who have a rocket arm and run 4.5's every year... heck they don't happen every 10 years.

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    ... he certainly has homerun potential ...


    ... i agree with the poster stating the learning curve is longer than most ...

    ... if carolina takes him it would be hard to imagine them not starting him year 1 if not week 1 ... i personally think he should ride the pine and learn the position for 3/4 of the season minimum ...

    ... i'd go Dareus as the 1st pick ...










    l_j_r

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    JaMarcus Russell was billed as the same thing. Big, fast, strong arm( cannon) ...Physical tools dont make it work all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by murphklecko73 View Post
    JaMarcus Russell was billed as the same thing. Big, fast, strong arm( cannon) ...Physical tools dont make it work all the time.
    jamarcus wasn't as fast as Cam.

    a closer comparison is Big Ben or McNair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by murphklecko73 View Post
    JaMarcus Russell was billed as the same thing. Big, fast, strong arm( cannon) ...Physical tools dont make it work all the time.
    I'm not totally sold on Newton at this level, but the Jamarcus comparison is wrong. Russell shot up the charts after the combines because of his arm strength. He was certainly very, very good at the college level, but he wasn't anywhere close to Newton's level.

    Newton was THE dominant force in college football last season. He was the best player in the country by a mile. He stepped in to a team that was 7-5 a year earlier and took it to the national title. At the college level, he's an all timer.

    Now the same could be said, I suppose, about Vince Young, who imo is a much better comparison than Newton.

    And, imo, it's not a particularly helpful comparison because Young flashed star potential in the NFL before his lousy work ethic and mental issues caught up with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lamont_jordan_rules View Post
    ... he certainly has homerun potential ...


    ... i agree with the poster stating the learning curve is longer than most ...

    ... if carolina takes him it would be hard to imagine them not starting him year 1 if not week 1 ... i personally think he should ride the pine and learn the position for 3/4 of the season minimum ...

    ... i'd go Dareus as the 1st pick ...









    l_j_r
    agreed with all points. This guy will have to put in the hardyards in the film room and studying. He's certainly not going to be able to start right away. He admitted that their college system was pretty simplistic in his own words to Gruden. But he certainly has seemingly unlimited upside from an athletic standpoint, but does he have the smarts

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    Cam Newton is basically a poor man's Vince Young. A very poor man's. About the only thing to recommend him over Young is that he's a little bit bigger and that he has a stronger arm, and neither factor is as important as they sound. He ran a junky offense that didn't ask him to do any of the things he'll have to do at the pro level, he doesn't read the field, he runs but isn't a dynamic runner who can dominate at the pro level with his legs (again like Young, not like Vick), and he has a laughably short track record. Matt Ryan, who was a three year starter, threw three times as many passes his senior year as Newton has thrown in his entire D-IA career.

    In a bad quarterback class like this one, I wouldn't take Newton in the first round, much less number one over all. Taking him there is shockingly incompetent, and I'll stick by that even if he works out. There is no reason in the world to justify the risk of the selection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanmac31 View Post
    Cam Newton is basically a poor man's Vince Young.

    people forget but Vince Young not only won Rookie of the year, he has a winning record as a starter in the NFL.

    I think any NFL GM would love to draft a player and have him "fail" like Vince Young.

    for what it's worth, long term posters will remember I was very much against VY... i was a big Cutler fan in that draft... but gotta give the devil his due. any pick that ends up with a rookie of the year award is a good pick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanmac31 View Post
    Matt Ryan, who was a three year starter, threw three times as many passes his senior year as Newton has thrown in his entire D-IA career.

    ... very telling stat ... i hadn't realized it was that drastic ...












    l-j_r

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    but gotta give the devil his due. any pick that ends up with a rookie of the year award is a good pick.

    ... i can't remember back to that draft ... were there character concerns about vince coming out? ... if so the dues must be paid on that end as well ...












    l_j_r

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    people forget but Vince Young not only won Rookie of the year, he has a winning record as a starter in the NFL.

    I think any NFL GM would love to draft a player and have him "fail" like Vince Young.

    for what it's worth, long term posters will remember I was very much against VY... i was a big Cutler fan in that draft... but gotta give the devil his due. any pick that ends up with a rookie of the year award is a good pick.
    I very much disagree with this. Drafting a quarterback number one overall--or even number three overall, as in Young's case--and getting his level of production in return is a bit shy of a disaster. Rookie of the Year is pretty meaningless if the player doesn't develop, and Young's winning percentage is equally misleading, as he was beaten out by a journeyman quarterback who went on to put up a significantly better winning percentage with the same team. (In any event, I'm not a fan of using winning percentage as a serious way of grading a quarterback.) Young isn't making it through his rookie deal, and while he'll land a roster spot on a team somewhere, there is no team that is going to sign him and think that they have their quarterback position taken care of. Sorry, that doesn't strike me as NFL success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanmac31 View Post
    I very much disagree with this. Drafting a quarterback number one overall--or even number three overall, as in Young's case--and getting his level of production in return is a bit shy of a disaster.
    people expect draft picks to be 10 year all pros... it doesn't work like that... every year in this forum we see hundreds of prospects amount to nothing... doesn't matter where they were picked... if a guy has 1, 2 or 3 good seasons, wins more games than he loses, that's a good pick. It's an entertainment and if a player can entertain over a decent amount of time (in the NFL less than 3 years is the average career) that's all we can expect. Most players are not Payton Manning.

    and let me say further more that Vince YOung's career is not over, i'd bet money he starts in 2011 for some team... perhaps even Miami.

    let's look at some other so called busts

    Mike Vick went 1 overall... won some games... got busted... went to prison... now he's a franchise QB again.

    Vinny Testaverde went 1 overall... was on a terrible bucs team... switched teams a couple times... eventually made the pro bowl in 1998 something like 12 years after he was drafted.

    and like VY, Vick and Vinny, Cam Newton is a rare physical prospect. Guys that can do what cam does do not enter the draft every year... maybe not even every 10 years.

    The league needs stars, it will market these players and it will do everything possible to help them succeed. The league cannot market a Jimmy Clausen.

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    Many people love Newton at #1.....they are misguided souls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    people expect draft picks to be 10 year all pros... it doesn't work like that... every year in this forum we see hundreds of prospects amount to nothing... doesn't matter where they were picked... if a guy has 1, 2 or 3 good seasons, wins more games than he loses, that's a good pick. It's an entertainment and if a player can entertain over a decent amount of time (in the NFL less than 3 years is the average career) that's all we can expect. Most players are not Payton Manning.

    and let me say further more that Vince YOung's career is not over, i'd bet money he starts in 2011 for some team... perhaps even Miami.

    let's look at some other so called busts

    Mike Vick went 1 overall... won some games... got busted... went to prison... now he's a franchise QB again.

    Vinny Testaverde went 1 overall... was on a terrible bucs team... switched teams a couple times... eventually made the pro bowl in 1998 something like 12 years after he was drafted.

    and like VY, Vick and Vinny, Cam Newton is a rare physical prospect. Guys that can do what cam does do not enter the draft every year... maybe not even every 10 years.

    The league needs stars, it will market these players and it will do everything possible to help them succeed. The league cannot market a Jimmy Clausen.
    Again, I can't agree with that. In a world without a salary cap, maybe, but that's not the world NFL teams operate in. The success or failure of a pick is dependent on the amount of money and investment spent versus the production accrued. If Colt McCoy has a couple of good years and then gets hurt or becomes ineffective or fades out, then he was a fine pick. But the same doesn't hold for a quarterback taken in the top of the first round. If you use that pick and get back an average NFL starter, it's highly debatable whether or not that was a wise use of a pick (which gets us into dangerous territory with Sanchez, but that's a discussion for another day). Winning percentage or not, Young has been a below-average NFL starter who has nevertheless been getting paid like an above-average one. One of the primary reasons for drafting a quarterback is because they are almost impossible to find on the free agent or trade market. It's a fluke when someone like Drew Brees moves teams. Generally speaking, you pay the cost of developing the player so you can lock him up in his second contract. But the Titans are letting Young walk and will have to draft another QB immediately to replace him. That's a bad pick for the organization.

    (I agree that Young's career is not over, incidentally, and he has a chance to develop. But I would give him less chance of doing so than Matt Leinart, and neither one looks like a particularly good bet at the moment.)

    Cam Newton can't be an effective runner at the NFL level. He simply isn't going to be one. Aside from Michael Vick and Steve Young, I'm not sure there has been a quarterback who was able to effect games by running. (This is different from having escapability and moving in the pocket, but that's not what Newton does--Newton looks at his primary receiver and then starts running upfield.) So what you are left with is a big guy who throws hard. That comes around every year. In fact, Ryan Mallet is as big and throws the ball better than Newton, so he's not even unique to this year. There is zero reason for a franchise to risk taking him at the top of the draft. As I said, I wouldn't draft him in the first round, and there are 4-5 quarterbacks I would take over him, none before pick 15 or so.

    And the league was marketing Jimmy Clausen at this time last year. Just to put things in proper perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsFever06 View Post
    The guy is phenomenal! Has the it factor , I dont understand why people bash him ?
    It is not bashing him it is is true. The guy has so many negatives against him there is no way he should be considered a top flight QB prospect. And no you do not take a QB #1 overall just because! Even the guys putting him at one admit to him not being a top ten prospect here. Most even say he is not the best QB in the draft. So you are passing on at least 10 guys that are better prospects for a guy that can't play for at least 2 years maybe more. If you can say that then why put him #1 overall to a team that just drafted a project QB last year? And for that matter if so many have Gabbert on top why no predictions with him? Do the math.

    Personally I have yet to hear a good reason why he should be #1
    overall. Tell me he has the "it" factor and is a winner all you want. None of that means he can play as a pro. Danny Wuerffel had the "it factor" too and it didn't help him a whole lot. Great athlete just not a great pro QB prospect. I still say it is stupid to jump on a guy just because he can sell jerseys in the south and that is what we are talking about here. If he goes #1 it will not be because of great talent it will be a move to make money and I get that. He is not some rare community there are guys with his ability in almost every draft now. Terrelle Pryor is a very similar player and will likely be a 3rd or 4th rounder next year. Last year you had Tebow. Take is as you may but there is really nothing all that special about him IMO. It would be like drafting Usain Bolt in the 1st to play WR.
    Last edited by Dreamers; 04-26-2011 at 01:07 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanmac31 View Post
    Cam Newton can't be an effective runner at the NFL level. He simply isn't going to be one.
    Cam Newton ran alot last year but the great majority of those runs were called draws. take away the plays that the coaches designed for him to run, his scramble rate was about 8%... similar to Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben

    another story, back when Cam Newton was a high schooler he was looked at as "only" a pocket passer and recruiters wondered if he'd be willing to run... now he's a pro and scouts are wondering the opposite.

    Like Steve McNair or Donovan McNabb he's capable of both.

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