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Thread: Guantanamo secret files show U.S. often held innocent Afghans

  1. #21
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4012002]War is ugly enough. We should not be stooping to the levels of simple minded barbarians.[/QUOTE]

    We absolutely should. Neither of us will ever know how many American lives were saved by torturing the enemy.

    I don't care to know. If it was one, I'm okay with it. A few dozen, that's great. The thousands that it realistically is, well, you get the picture...

  2. #22
    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;4012072]We absolutely should. Neither of us will ever know how many American lives were saved by torturing the enemy.

    I don't care to know. If it was one, I'm okay with it. A few dozen, that's great. The thousands that it realistically is, well, you get the picture...[/QUOTE]

    The picture is pretty bleak. Hard to fight a war with conviction if you don't have any.

    Amazingly the world is changing right before our eyes and Muslims all over the ME and the world are looking to the US as an example of Democratic freedom, law and rights.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 04-28-2011 at 04:01 PM.

  3. #23
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4011573]Don't care.

    This is War.

    Not Girls Softball.

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually girls softball is pretty cut throat.

    That said, I'll remember this when someone imprisons 14-year-old American. And gives him his due process. No problem Muslums!! No harm no foul.

  4. #24
    [QUOTE=FF2;4012177]Actually girls softball is pretty cut throat.[/quote]

    Good point. I could tell you stories of Wymyns Softball Players who absolutely smoked a bunch of DI, DII and DIII men Baseball players one time.....funny funny stuff.

    [quote]That said, I'll remember this when someone imprisons 14-year-old American. And gives him his due process. No problem Muslums!! No harm no foul.[/QUOTE]

    Because if a 14 year old American were found in Afghanistan by a Taliban Patrol, and the 14 year old was holding an M-16, what do you think would happen?

    Exactly.

    Do I want to imprison innocents? No, if for no other reason that wasted money. Please, try and remember that the Govt. that apparently dropped the ball here (in the eyes of our left-leaners) is the very same Govt. the left continually wishes to give more power and more tax money too, and more control over big things like say, healthcare.

    So tell me, if they screwed this us, why would I think they'll hadle my prostate any better?

  5. #25
    I thought Obama was supposed to be a muslim?

  6. #26
    [QUOTE=TerminatorJet;4012207]I thought Obama was supposed to be a muslim?[/QUOTE]

    Only when campaigning in certain neighborhoods of Michigan.

  7. #27
    [QUOTE=TerminatorJet;4012207]I thought Obama was supposed to be a muslim?[/QUOTE]

    I thought he was supposed to close GITMO, get out of Iraq, bring transparency to the government, not do end arounds of Congress and a plethora of other things...

    Whu happened man?

    :rolleyes:

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4012002]First of all. we should not be in the business of torture. That is something that is generally left up to the troops in the field of fire. We are now doing this with the approval of the Executive Branch since Bush.

    Second, GTMO is in another nation. This blurs the line between American laws and International laws. Just ugly. This blurring allows for the atrocities go on basically unchallenged.

    War is ugly enough. We should not be stooping to the levels of simple minded barbarians.[/QUOTE]

    Pardon my ignorance, but I'll guess that the quote in your signature means you are a current/former Marine? So I am sure you know that Gitmo is basically sovereign US territory, just like an embassy, so its presence in another nation is moot.

    What would lead to the Cubans exercising their sovereignty over the Bay?

    [QUOTE=FF2;4012177]Actually girls softball is pretty cut throat.

    That said, I'll remember this when someone imprisons 14-year-old American. And gives him his due process. No problem Muslums!! No harm no foul.[/QUOTE]

    How about an 18 year-old being sentenced to corporal punishment by a friendly government?
    :shakeass:
    Last edited by Jetworks; 04-28-2011 at 04:57 PM.

  9. #29
    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;4012072]We absolutely should. Neither of us will ever know how many American lives were saved by torturing the enemy.

    I don't care to know. If it was one, I'm okay with it. A few dozen, that's great. The thousands that it realistically is, well, you get the picture...[/QUOTE]

    Once again, torture is a troop level psyop. It should not be sanctioned by the Executive Level of the USA.

    Whose life do you know that it saved? To say that so loosely is irresponsible.

  10. #30
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4012274]Whose life do you know that it saved? To say that so loosely is irresponsible.[/QUOTE]

    To pretend that it hasn't led to the gathering of intelligence that saved lives is frankly idiotic.

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;4012300]To pretend that it hasn't led to the gathering of intelligence that saved lives is frankly idiotic.[/QUOTE]

    It's killed more people that it's saved.

    It doesn't work. There's a reason that guys who have been doing it in the military for decades don't use it as an effective interrogation method. \

  12. #32
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    It's an ineffective interrogation method, and it has been labeled as such by the CIA for decades.

    I'm not against its use as a last resort in a true "ticking time bomb" situation, but its use as institutionalized standard practice is misguided and detrimental.

  13. #33
    [QUOTE=parafly;4012321]It's an ineffective interrogation method, and it has been labeled as such by the CIA for decades.
    [/QUOTE]

    You'd have been better off using the FBI... Joe Navarro being a great example. The guy wrote the handbook for the BAU (you've seen it on Criminal Minds)...

    Again, I'll go back and say... One American life. That's all it needed to save.

    Personally, even if what KSM gave up was crap, I'm glad he was waterboarded 180+ times. He deserves worse... But, according to those same CIA folks who labeled EIT ineffective, there's still the question of those memos Cheny had released. He wasn't lying, for once.

  14. #34
    [QUOTE=parafly;4012321]It's an ineffective interrogation method, and it has been labeled as such by the CIA for decades.

    I'm not against its use as a last resort in a true "ticking time bomb" situation, but its use as institutionalized standard practice is misguided and detrimental.[/QUOTE]

    Wait, so it's an ineffective interrogation method, but what we should use in a "ticking time bomb" situation? Isn't that a little backwards?

    It's like people who don't believe in God, then 9/11 happens, and everyone and their brother starts praying . . .:rolleyes:

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;4012381]Again, I'll go back and say... One American life. That's all it needed to save.[/QUOTE]

    Indeed. Also, we should also have anyone who is pulled over for speeding get the snot beat out of them because, statistically speaking, speed kills....and if you could save one American life on the nation's highways by instituting a program of good old fashioned passionate a** whippings, then that's all it needs to save...










    :alien:

  16. #36
    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;4012300]To pretend that it hasn't led to the gathering of intelligence that saved lives is frankly idiotic.[/QUOTE]

    It's about effective as the TSA. All that money poured down the drain and they have not stopped one terrorists this year and that is with the increase suppression by frisking people and the body scanners.

    With all that money, they should be catching terrorists daily. The torture doesn't work. It is battlefield level psyop used to p1ss off or scare off the enemy.

  17. #37
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4012307]It's killed more people that it's saved.[/QUOTE]

    An interesting claim.

    Who has it killed that would not have otherwise been killed, and what is your proof of that?

    Seems such a claim would be exceedingly hard to prove outside opinion, assuming one's opinion is that those fighting us would be less violent if Gitmo had never existed (and no other Prison existed?)

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4014133]An interesting claim.[/QUOTE]

    Not my claim. A claim of a professorial military intelligence and counter intelligence operative whose methods led to the capture/death of many high profile terrorists leaders during the early part of the Iraq War.

    But what does that guy know. My money is on the hundreds of people who inhabit internet message boards and invoke the "ticking time bomb" argument. :P The lowest common denominator and basest human emotions are usually the best way to implement a intelligence program, I've found. Torture works so good that almost every American POW spilled their guts to their captors. It's a fact. Take me to your leader :D
    Last edited by PlumberKhan; 04-29-2011 at 11:49 AM.

  19. #39
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4014164]Not my claim. A claim of a professorial military intelligence and counter intelligence operative whose methods led to the capture/death of many high profile terrorists leaders during the early part of the Iraq War.

    But what does that guy know. My money is on the hundreds of people who inhabit internet message boards and invoke the "ticking time bomb" argument. :P The lowest common denominator and basest human emotions are usually the best way to implement a intelligence program, I've found. Torture works so good that almost every American POW spilled their guts to their captors. It's a fact. Take me to your leader :D[/QUOTE]

    The same 8 prisoners were the ones who knew everything about 255 other inmates? That is basically impossible.

  20. #40
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4014164]Not my claim. A claim of a professorial military intelligence and counter intelligence operative whose methods led to the capture/death of many high profile terrorists leaders during the early part of the Iraq War.

    But what does that guy know. My money is on the hundreds of people who inhabit internet message boards and invoke the "ticking time bomb" argument. :P The lowest common denominator and basest human emotions are usually the best way to implement a intelligence program, I've found. Torture works so good that almost every American POW spilled their guts to their captors. It's a fact. Take me to your leader :D[/QUOTE]

    I have no idea what "that guy" knows, I apparently havn't read what "that guy" wrote.

    I would contest an argument that any American Deaths would have not occured IF and ONLY IF, Gitmo Prison had never existed. If it wasn't Gitmo, it would be whatever Prison we used. If it wasn't the Prison, it's be the War itself. If not the War, just our existence, or history, or some other slight.

    Again, it seems to me a very odd claim that U.S. Soldiers would be treated better if Gitmo hadn't existed.

    "No, Mubar, we can;t behead this one, after all, the U.S. treats our prisoners well!"

    Really?

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