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Thread: Waterboarding WORKS

  1. #41
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    Waterboarding doesn't work, four out of five black site wardens agree, yet somehow it worked. :P

    Solid logic from the usual suspects :ohbrother

    Wanna know what real torture is? Lib anti-EIT threads like these
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 05-10-2011 at 09:07 AM.

  2. #42
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    Mark Sanchez completes 1 out of every 187 passes. That makes him a HOFer.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025354[B]A. Empatize with America's enemies

    B. Empatize with societies enemies

    C. Have no such empathy for innocent victims

    D. Actively work for America's defeat in any global conflict[/B]

    [/QUOTE]

    Might want to reread thread. No "Lib" here said anything of that sort, Ham. I know it works for Pubs to demonize their opponents as "'Merica Haters"...but you couldn't be further offbase.

    Sorry. But saying that someone who think waterboarding as an interrogation method is retarded "empathizes with enemies and has no empathy for victims" is about as logical as "George Bush hates black people"...

  4. #44
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    It's not about sympathy for your enemies.

    Simulating drowning is torture. What does that make us?

  5. #45
    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025354]I agree, they never change, its always the same things from liberals, you can always count on them to ...

    [B]A. Empatize with America's enemies

    B. Empatize with societies enemies

    C. Have no such empathy for innocent victims

    D. Actively work for America's defeat in any global conflict[/B]

    [/QUOTE]

    ....................................................................................................

    [QUOTE][B]Dear Muslim Freedom Fighter/Patriot/Hero/Martyr/Brother,


    You do not know me. But I act as lookout for you. You are my friend. And I am yours.

    I am Huff Po.

    I am flying my private plane. I am riding in my limosine. I have never ridden a bus. And the subway? Feh. That's for the little people. I am living in a gated community. I always use the VIP entrance. We'll probably never actually meet unless you're holding the door for me.

    I am your flag-burner. I am your effigy-hanger. I am your high-calorie hunger-striker. I am your unshaven documentary-maker.

    I am Huff Po.

    I will never forget the example of the thoughtless, disruptive passengers of United Airlines Flight 93, and how racist it was of them not to just sit back on 9/11 and let the brave Muslims land the plane safely after the pilot... fell unexpectedly ill.

    I will never forget those stupid, racist passengers and crew members who tackled the unfairly-accused, alleged "al Qaeda shoe-bomber" Richard Reid on American Airlines Flight 63 before he had a chance to explain that he was just using that match to find a dropped contact lens in the darkness by his feet. Perfectly understandable. Happens all the time.

    I will never forget the racist over-reacting of actor James Woods, who pointlessly pestered a stewardess, claiming that several Arab men sitting in his first-class cabin on an August 2001 flight were behaving strangely. Sure, the men turned out to be 9/11 hijackers on a test run, but come ON! It was only a TEST! Who freaks out over a TEST?

    I will march with a "Bush = Hitler" sign when Homeland Security officials ask me to "report suspicious activity". That'll show those Brownshirts!

    I will mock my local police department's admonition "If you see something, say something". Yeah, I see something... a Nazi goon in a blue uniform!

    I am Huff Po.

    I will applaud your Zionist-conspiracy-hating, American-imperialism-bashing scholars.

    I will donate to your misunderstood mosque leaders as reparations for the injustices your people suffered during the Crusades.

    I will raise my voice against the subjugation of your women and religious minorities to greedy American corporate interests like Halliburton and Wal-Mart.

    I will embrace your attempts to educate my children with your wisdom and different truths in our schools. YAY! Diversity!

    I will link to your cool YouTube videos of American mercenaries getting what's coming to them.

    I am Huff Po.

    I will protest law enforcement initiatives to spy on your innocent tourists, cut off the meager funding that allows you to obtain food and medicine for your children, and disrupt the exercise of your bomb-related freedom of speech.

    I will build tunnels under our borders and donate my lawyer's time if you run afoul of America's oppressive immigration laws.

    I will eventually consult a dictionary about this "Sharia" thingy of yours, but right now I'm just too busy speechifying on the perils of global warming in my limo, charity dinners, DNC fund-raising pool-parties, the halls of Congress, our national monuments, the radio and television airwaves, and outside the President's ranch.

    I will silence any cruel, right-wing criticism that might offend you. Mean-spiritedness is NOT free speech.

    I will call in a few favors to assist your Beltway lobbying groups in moderate clothing so that they may air their many legitimate grievances. I will be right next to you shrieking "profiling" or "Islamophobia" if you don't get your way. Or maybe "Bush = Hitler". Man, I can NEVER get enough of that one!

    I will put sensitivity above all else. Above safety, my family, my country, multiculturalism... No, wait... not that last one.

    I will do whatever you want me to. Because I'm your friend. And I know you would never hurt me.

    I am Huff Po.

    Hey! What's with that explosive vest?[/B][/QUOTE]

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025371]That is the predictable liberal position, heart bleeds for those who wish to slaughter us by the bushel basket.[/QUOTE]

    I don't care WTF they did to KSM or BSM or FNH or Abdullah Whatever-a-jad. That's not why most people are against waterboarding being used as an interrogation method. It has not much to do with the pain inflicted upon anyone...c'mon Ham, I've advocated for the slaughter of everyone between Morocco and India as a way to solve 90% of the worlds problems, think I care about the pain a terrorist endures?

    Nope.

    It's not effective and 8 out of 10 times it yields false info that can end up costing American lives.

    187 times, Ham. 187. If you have to do something 187 times....IT'S NOT EFFECTIVE at all.

    You could have blasted a Justin Beiber song in the interrogation room 75 times and gotten the guy to squeal. Does that mean that Justin Beiber is an effective interrogation method?

    How about this:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0[/url]


    How about locking KSM in a room with Andy Dick and Fran Dresher?

  7. #47
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    Wow, the two of you are pretty partisan, eh?

    Somehow "Torture isn't right" =

    a. "libs never confront real evil unless libs themselves are the targets ... thats why libs are still crying about McCarthyism 60 Years later, but rarely had a harsh word for any communist tyrant on the face of the planet"

    - GreenJets&Ham

    b. (what liberals say to terrorists) "I will applaud your Zionist-conspiracy-hating, American-imperialism-bashing scholars."

    - DeanPatsFan
    Last edited by SafetyBlitz; 05-10-2011 at 12:03 PM.

  8. #48
    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025371]Okay, so you tell me ...

    Why is it funny that Robery Downey may have been raped in prison, but tragic that KSM was waterboarded?

    Any of you libs who joke about the former and publicy mourn the latter, can you explain that contradiction?

    Which would you prefer, to be anally (male on male) gang raped, or waterboarded?

    If you're so concerned about torture, how do you ignore or laugh about the former, but publicly decry the latter?

    I'll answer that, typical liberals, hearts always bleeding for bad guys, full of empathy for the worst of the worst, people who embody evil, but not an ounce of sympathy for the real victims of evil.

    So you cry for the terrorist who gets dunked in water, but not a peep about the kid who gets locked up on a drug charge, non violent criminal thrown in a cage with violent criminals and left to the mercy of the merciless ... not a peep from the [B][U]professional left[/U][/B] about that issue (i.e. REAL TORTURE) despite the fact that its been epidemic in American prisons for decades ... but they can't STFU about terrorists being dunked in water.

    Its just like libs didn't say a ****** peep in this country when Stalin was killing 20, 30 or 40 million people in the Soviet Union ... libs never confront real evil unless libs themselves are the targets ... thats why libs are still crying about McCarthyism 60 Years later, but rarely had a harsh word for any communist tyrant on the face of the planet.

    Jungle is right, whining about waterboarding terrorists is consistent with everything I have ever known about libs.

    That is the predictable liberal position, heart bleeds for those who wish to slaughter us by the bushel basket.[/QUOTE]


    [url]http://thewellversed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/DPM_FreeMumia.jpg[/url]

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025419]I hate to admit that, it kills me to admit it, but there's no way I can standup under real torture.[/QUOTE]

    If you were SERE trained, you'd stand-up to it :D

    And that's the thing...many of these HVT's were trained to resist. If successful interrogation was nothing more than inflicting pain, waterboarding, cutting digits and ripping off fingernails there wouldn't be an unsolved crime in the world :)

    But...at least you understand I'm not against it because of a terrorist getting hurt. I hate it when people assume that.

    Here's an interesting article on how a trained military interrogator recognized that the tactics being used to interrogate were tactics that our own soldiers were systematically trained to resist.

    [url]http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/torturingdemocracy/interviews/steven_kleinman.html[/url]

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025371]Okay, so you tell me ...

    Why is it funny that Robery Downey may have been raped in prison, but tragic that KSM was waterboarded?

    Any of you libs who joke about the former and publicy mourn the latter, can you explain that contradiction?

    Which would you prefer, to be anally (male on male) gang raped, or waterboarded?

    If you're so concerned about torture, how do you ignore or laugh about the former, but publicly decry the latter?

    I'll answer that, typical liberals, hearts always bleeding for bad guys, full of empathy for the worst of the worst, people who embody evil, but not an ounce of sympathy for the real victims of evil.

    So you cry for the terrorist who gets dunked in water, but not a peep about the kid who gets locked up on a drug charge, non violent criminal thrown in a cage with violent criminals and left to the mercy of the merciless ... not a peep from the [B][U]professional left[/U][/B] about that issue (i.e. REAL TORTURE) despite the fact that its been epidemic in American prisons for decades ... but they can't STFU about terrorists being dunked in water.

    Its just like libs didn't say a ****** peep in this country when Stalin was killing 20, 30 or 40 million people in the Soviet Union ... libs never confront real evil unless libs themselves are the targets ... thats why libs are still crying about McCarthyism 60 Years later, but rarely had a harsh word for any communist tyrant on the face of the planet.

    Jungle is right, whining about waterboarding terrorists is consistent with everything I have ever known about libs.

    That is the predictable liberal position, heart bleeds for those who wish to slaughter us by the bushel basket.[/QUOTE]

    So wait a minute, you're comparing what convicts do to each other with American policy on interrogation of terrorist suspects? What's could be wrong with that logic? :rolleyes: I won't even go into the Stalin issue, or the holocaust, or Pol Pot, etc. I'm not sure where you grabbed that idea from in the first place. It's nice to pigeonhole "libs" as whiny, unpatriotic, supportive of tyrants, and dismissive of Hollywood actors, which is a weird concatination of characteristics. But you're on a roll, so go for it...

    P.S. My priority point has always been whether enhance interrogation works. That's the first issue. If it's a flawed and messy process that often times results in lies/disinformation, then it is worthwhile to question why it would be used, given that it does involve sanctioning torture. I think an interesting question for our hard-$ssed cowboys here is: what if it was found that coddling and cuddling terrorists produced a high level of success in gaining information? Would you support that as a policy? Or would you be so outraged at the idea that you'd prefer to go on suffocating and beating prisoners, just to gain vengeance at the expense of useful information? Just curious what the priority is here...
    Last edited by long island leprechaun; 05-10-2011 at 01:35 PM.

  11. #51
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    [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/petraeus_values_051007.pdf[/url]

    i agree with soon to be cia director general petraeus
    how can the torture party confirm a cia director who condemns torture
    i cant wait for those hearings :)

  12. #52
    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025354]I agree, they never change, its always the same things from liberals, you can always count on them to ...

    [B]A. Empatize with America's enemies

    B. Empatize with societies enemies

    C. Have no such empathy for innocent victims

    D. Actively work for America's defeat in any global conflict[/B]

    [/QUOTE]

    Just silly Ham.

  13. #53
    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025524]Okay, but please tell me, how do you make any sense of the hue & cry eminating from the professional left over waterboarding KSM and other likeminded Jihadists?
    [/QUOTE]

    we as a nation signed an agreement to not do this.

    if we allow torture, what will happen when our troops get captured?

    We are supposed to be a shining beacon on a hill... a country that others should admire and aspire to be like.

    since we are painting with broad strokes maybe the right wing hates the troops.

    let's see... you guys favor unlimited war with unlimited deployments, more fronts... don't seem to worry about how our boys get treated if they get captured.

    does the right wing _really_ support the troops?

    by the way i don't believe that... but this is what happens when we divide everyone into labels and then paint with a broad stroke. It's not a constructive way to debate.

    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025524]
    how do you explain the professional left making such an enormous deal out of waterboarding a few terrorists in an effort to save American lives ... again, when you don't hear a peep out of them about the real torture that goes on in American prisons every day of the week?[/QUOTE]

    if the wardens were raping the prisoners there would be an outcry. what goes on in prisons would be like if the gitmo detainees were waterboarding each other. it's unpleasant but not gov't sanctioned abuse.

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025524]Okay, but please tell me, how do you make any sense of the hue & cry eminating from the professional left over waterboarding KSM and other likeminded Jihadists?

    Just to be clear, when I speak of the left I mean the professional left and their mouthpieces in the MSM who set the agenda, not your garden variety liberal, so how do you explain the professional left making such an enormous deal out of waterboarding a few terrorists in an effort to save American lives ... again, when you don't hear a peep out of them about the real torture that goes on in American prisons every day of the week?[/QUOTE]

    How do you make any sense of the Conservatives under Bush giving up on Ben Ladin and pushing us into a trillion dollar war in Iraq that has put our economy on the brink, caused the dollar to crash in value putting our working middle class on the brink, kept rotating troops back into wars without a draft putting our military personal on the brink and basically leaving it up to a left wing President to get the biggest war criminal of the 21st century?

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4025538]we as a nation signed an agreement to not do this.

    if we allow torture, what will happen when our troops get captured?

    We are supposed to be a shining beacon on a hill... a country that others should admire and aspire to be like.

    since we are painting with broad strokes maybe the right wing hates the troops.

    let's see... you guys favor unlimited war with unlimited deployments, more fronts... don't seem to worry about how our boys get treated if they get captured.

    does the right wing _really_ support the troops?

    by the way i don't believe that... but this is what happens when we divide everyone into labels and then paint with a broad stroke. It's not a constructive way to debate.



    if the wardens were raping the prisoners there would be an outcry. what goes on in prisons would be like if the gitmo detainees were waterboarding each other. it's unpleasant but not gov't sanctioned abuse.[/QUOTE]

    Uh-oh. I feel a Warfish straw-man response coming. :cautious:

  16. #56
    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025545]Bit, what difference does it make to the kid who is being tortured?

    Do you think the kid who is being tortured cares if its the guards or other inmates who are torturing him?

    So if its inmates and not the guards, are we just supposed to turn a blind eye and do nothing to stop it?

    Again, why is it the people who are most vocal about their opposition to torture (i.e. liberals) are so willing to turn a blind eye to the torture that goes on in American prisons every day, which is a million times worse than waterboarding or anything else that goes on at Gitmo.[/QUOTE]

    What's going on in US prisons is an outright disgrace as is the fact that we have the largest prison population in the world and many people are in for what are essentially victimless crimes.

    Are you as a conservative disturbed about prison conditions in the US and okay with torture of US held prisoners of war? Or are you just trying to point out that most libs have given up on prison reform, gun control, immigration reform because these issues aren't going anywhere politically?

  17. #57
    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025556]
    Liberals just can't bring themselves to admit the enhanced interrogations played a role in locating Bin Laden. How big of a role we can debate, but they can't even admit it played any role because it doesn't fit the liberal narrative.

    Just to be clear, I'm not saying all liberals, but generally speaking.[/QUOTE]

    So what if it did? The fact that a Conservative President with a conservative majority in both the House and Senate with free reign to do whatever he wanted are hanging on to the fact that torture may have helped get Ben Laden years after they were gone isn't a lot to hang your hat on.

    Isn't it equally as possible that a focussed build up in AG with willingness to cross the border with troops might have accomplished the same thing years ago?

    In Fairness to GWB he was the man in charge of the intelligence community that provided the information to Congress.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 05-10-2011 at 02:39 PM.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=sourceworx;4025544]Uh-oh. I feel a Warfish straw-man response coming. :cautious:[/QUOTE]

    Fish reading a random Bit post:

    [IMG]http://www.funnypictureblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/ExplodingHead.gif[/IMG]

  19. #59
    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025524]Okay, but please tell me, how do you make any sense of the hue & cry eminating from the professional left over waterboarding KSM and other likeminded Jihadists?

    Just to be clear, when I speak of the left I mean the professional left and their mouthpieces in the MSM who set the agenda, not your garden variety liberal, so how do you explain the professional left making such an enormous deal out of waterboarding a few terrorists in an effort to save American lives ... again, when you don't hear a peep out of them about the real torture that goes on in American prisons every day of the week?[/QUOTE]

    1. Thats not what you said in your post. You simple said Liberals.

    2. Not believing in torture as a.) effective and/or b.) moral does not mean someone is those things you list.

  20. #60
    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4025571]I agree, and the truth is conservatives have a lot to answer for on this issue as well. Frankly a lot of the stuff that goes on in prisons is because conservatives in positions of authority don't care one wit about what happens to these kids either, and they won't spend one ounce of political capital to stop the torture that goes on in American prisons.

    The only reason I took the professional left to task on this issue in this thread is because of their very public and passionate position in regards to torture at Gitmo. If the professional left were that passionate about stopping the abuse that goes on in American prisons, prison reform as you will, we could have ended these atrocities a long time ago, but frankly nobody gives a hoot and that included the professional left.

    Oh and for the record, I am DEAD AGAINST placing non violent criminals (i.e. drug offenders) with violent criminals, and also against placing drug users in prison as well, IMO they would be much better served in rehab, they have a sickness and I don't believe jail should be the first option unless they are committing other crimes or of course a violent crime.

    I honestly don't have a problem with enhanced interrogation, Winston, because as I explained earlier in this thread, I don't accept the premise that waterboarding is torture, not torture the way I understand it, if it were I think we would have had much greater success, yet having said that I am still opposed to "real torture" with the Dirty Bomb scenario being the exception, meaning disaster is imminent and we need to get that information immediately, in which case I believe not doing whatever is necessary is more immoral than doing whatever it takes.

    Also I am disappointed that no-one cares about the issue of prison reform, right, left or middle, that is until their kid winds up behind bars, but by then its too late for their kid ... unless he's really really tough.

    Again, my only beef with liberals here is the compassion they have for waterboarded terroists as opposed to the kids who suffer unspeakable torture in American prisons every day.[/QUOTE]

    We apparently agree on almost all points including waterboarding. Personally I'm not against enhanced introgation by professionals when there is compelling evidence that the captive has pertinent information. Having said that when that person is in custody that doesn't mean their isn't oversight and that prisoners have no rights. It's one thing to interogate known Al Qeeda operatives it's another thing to interogate prisoners who may have simply been rounded up on the battle field. Without trials, military or otherwise how do we know?

    Bribery works to and I'm sure it was a critical part of bringing down Ben Laden. You don't see Conservatives slapping themselves on the back for the plane fulls of cash brought in on pallets that were spread around in both AG and Iraq.

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