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Thread: Mel Kiper's take:

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    Mel Kiper's take:

    Jets
    Top needs: DE, OLB, WR, S

    Summary: The Jets needed help at both defensive end spots up front in their 3-4, and did a great job adding talent with their first two picks. Wilkerson could be one of the bigger steals of the first round, a player I maintain is a 2012 top-10 pick who was a really good value in 2011. He is a load at nearly 320 pounds, capable of taking on blocks and causing problems in the backfield. Ellis also is a good player, a dominant player against average competition who could respond well to Rex Ryan's coaching. Kerley fills a need for depth at wideout. McElroy might be a really good backup quarterback for the Jets. You want a backup who knows the playbook, and that won't be a problem for the him. The Jets didn't have the picks to find an outside linebacker who can help, and that's a need they'll need to address in free agency.

    Needs: B- | Value: B+ | Overall: B



    Pasts*
    Top needs: OLB, WR, DE, RB

    Summary: This was a mixed bag for me, a usual tour de force in terms of adding a mountain of roster spackle with the acquisition of draft picks -- the Patriots now have a pair of Round 1 and Round 2 picks to use (and trade) in 2012 -- but also with a few puzzlers mixed in with the usual smart picks. The Patriots needed offensive line help in a couple of spots, and they got an athletic guy that can be plugged in immediately with Solder. Dowling is a first-round pick if fully healthy and a guy I've had on the Big Board, but he wasn't healthy in 2010. The Patriots reached on a pair of running backs -- though Vereen offers a nice pass-catching option out of the backfield -- and then there was the notable selection of Mallett. It's a sensible pick. Value is value, and while Tom Brady's true heir may still be in high school, Mallett is now a commodity worth developing. Look what happened with Matt Cassel. I like the selection of Cannon, a massive lineman, but there's no real help in the pass rush at either defensive end or outside linebacker, which is pretty surprising. They got so little in terms of a pass rush from a quartet of linebackers last season, and this is a team that passed on Clay Matthews two years ago. Where is the pass rush help? But, as always, the Patriots will have plenty of chances to plug holes again next year. I just think for a team in line for another Super Bowl run, that was a need worth targeting.

    Needs: C | Value B- | Overall: C+

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    Ahh of course any draft thread has to inject a little Pats talk into it. Mel's analysis is fair, however, I have yet to understand this "Pats passed on a pass rusher talk". WHO did they pass on? Brooks Reed and Jabaal Sheard? Two risky DE end to OLB projections. While Wilkerson or Jordan would have been serviceable neither really fit the 3-4 scheme the Patriots use. While perfect for a penetrating and attacking team like the Jets, the Patriots use their DEs more to tie up the line of scrimmage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFfan View Post
    While Wilkerson or Jordan would have been serviceable neither really fit the 3-4 scheme the Patriots use. .
    its funny the Eagles at 23 have been selling their fans that neither Wilkerson nor Jordan fit's their 4-3 system

    bottom line very good players can excel in any system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFfan View Post
    Ahh of course any draft thread has to inject a little Pats talk into it. Mel's analysis is fair, however, I have yet to understand this "Pats passed on a pass rusher talk". WHO did they pass on? Brooks Reed and Jabaal Sheard? Two risky DE end to OLB projections. While Wilkerson or Jordan would have been serviceable neither really fit the 3-4 scheme the Patriots use. While perfect for a penetrating and attacking team like the Jets, the Patriots use their DEs more to tie up the line of scrimmage.
    I don't remember the last time the Pats WEREN'T supposed to take a DE/OLB in the first round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    its funny the Eagles at 23 have been selling their fans that neither Wilkerson nor Jordan fit's their 4-3 system

    bottom line very good players can excel in any system.
    True to some extent but in the first round you need to take sure thing guys that fit your system. I think Wilkerson is a good fit for the Jets 3-4 which is an attacking and penetrating defense but I don't think Jordan could have cut it in any 3-4 defense- he will be a good fit as a power DE in NO (in the mold of Will Smith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFfan View Post
    True to some extent but in the first round you need to take sure thing guys that fit your system. I think Wilkerson is a good fit for the Jets 3-4 which is an attacking and penetrating defense but I don't think Jordan could have cut it in any 3-4 defense- he will be a good fit as a power DE in NO (in the mold of Will Smith.
    Cam Jordan or Heyward would have both fit your system just fine. It's just like Chris Carter would have fit our system and I am not thrilled that we passed on him. I trust our FO but kinda wanted the player. Blind homerism is not good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFfan View Post
    I don't think Jordan could have cut it in any 3-4 defense- he will be a good fit as a power DE in NO (in the mold of Will Smith.
    it's a hypothetical cause he's going to a 4-3 but Cam Jordan did things at the Senior Bowl I hadn't seen since BJ Raji 2 years before. He sliced and diced people in the pit. pass rushing machine. and these weren't bad linemen he was beating... they were first rounders... like Castonzo, Carimi and Solder.

    the pats could have used him. So could have the Eagles. So could have the Jets. He can play defense and his dad was a pro bowler for the Vikings. He's a safe, solid pick that should have gone 10-15 slots higher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFfan View Post
    Ahh of course any draft thread has to inject a little Pats talk into it. Mel's analysis is fair, however, I have yet to understand this "Pats passed on a pass rusher talk". WHO did they pass on? Brooks Reed and Jabaal Sheard? Two risky DE end to OLB projections. While Wilkerson or Jordan would have been serviceable neither really fit the 3-4 scheme the Patriots use. While perfect for a penetrating and attacking team like the Jets, the Patriots use their DEs more to tie up the line of scrimmage.
    If I were a Pats fan, I would have been glad with their first pick (Solder), since protecting Brady is a huge part of the gameplan. I was confused by the RB picks, and trading out of the first round. I think if the Pats drafted Ingram, they'd be set for years (until Brady's replacement is found). I don't see the two RBs drafted as big impact makers as other picks could have been (but - this draft wasn't strong at RB to begin with).

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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    If I were a Pats fan, I would have been glad with their first pick (Solder), since protecting Brady is a huge part of the gameplan. I was confused by the RB picks, and trading out of the first round. I think if the Pats drafted Ingram, they'd be set for years (until Brady's replacement is found). I don't see the two RBs drafted as big impact makers as other picks could have been (but - this draft wasn't strong at RB to begin with).
    I wasn't thrilled about the Pats RB picks either. Both have a chance to be productive rotational backs. But neither looks to be a huge gamebreaker or "bellcow".

    That said, I'm not sure drafting Ingram in the first would have been a better solution. From everything I've read and seen of him, he seems like a second round talent that bounced into the first round solely on the strength of his Heisman and the Emmitt Smith comparisons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFfan View Post
    Ahh of course any draft thread has to inject a little Pats talk into it. Mel's analysis is fair, however, I have yet to understand this "Pats passed on a pass rusher talk". WHO did they pass on? Brooks Reed and Jabaal Sheard? Two risky DE end to OLB projections. While Wilkerson or Jordan would have been serviceable neither really fit the 3-4 scheme the Patriots use. While perfect for a penetrating and attacking team like the Jets, the Patriots use their DEs more to tie up the line of scrimmage.
    Pats passed on a lot m ore DE/OLBs than what was available at 27. They could have taken a pass rusher instead of Solder (and still got another solid O-Lineman later), or even traded up a few spots to grab a guy like JJ Watt.

    I was thrilled with the Pats draft (or lack there of).

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    people are bashing the Pats draft but Ras-I Dowling was a borderline first rounder and I would have been happy with him at 30 for the Jets, had Wilkerson not been there. He's an elite talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gastineau99 View Post
    Pats passed on a lot m ore DE/OLBs than what was available at 27. They could have taken a pass rusher instead of Solder (and still got another solid O-Lineman later), or even traded up a few spots to grab a guy like JJ Watt.

    I was thrilled with the Pats draft (or lack there of).
    Watt, Aldon Smith and Castonzo are all represented by Tom Condon, whom the Patriots refuse to deal with. So, for better or worse, those three may well have been off the Patriots' board entirely, which alone would eliminate some of your possible scenarios. FWIW, I think they actually much preferred Solder to Castonzo anyway and that Watt would have otherwise been a terrible fit for the Pats. Smith would have been better as an OLB candidate, but he went awfully high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCEastFan View Post
    Watt, Aldon Smith and Castonzo are all represented by Tom Condon, whom the Patriots refuse to deal with. So, for better or worse, those three may well have been off the Patriots' board entirely, which alone would eliminate some of your possible scenarios. FWIW, I think they actually much preferred Solder to Castonzo anyway and that Watt would have otherwise been a terrible fit for the Pats. Smith would have been better as an OLB candidate, but he went awfully high.
    When Robert Quinn fell to the low teens, it would have been a better use of their resources to trade up to get Quinn as opposed to taking two RBs. Quinn, or A. Smith - who went too high, was really the only pass rusher that would have made sense for the Pats. This draft did not have too many top tier OLB pass rushers. Miller, Smith and Quinn were really the only ones (other than Bowers).

    And while there were a ton of DEs that would fit the Pats system, I'm not sure that that's really a need for them as they are getting back Ty Warren and have a ton of young, versatile guys. Considering they signed Stroud, that's 3 experienced vets in addition to the young guys. I can see why they didn't feel the need to grab a guy like Jordan, despite the near consensus amongst their fans.

    JMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    When Robert Quinn fell to the low teens, it would have been a better use of their resources to trade up to get Quinn as opposed to taking two RBs. Quinn, or A. Smith - who went too high, was really the only pass rusher that would have made sense for the Pats. This draft did not have too many top tier OLB pass rushers. Miller, Smith and Quinn were really the only ones (other than Bowers).

    And while there were a ton of DEs that would fit the Pats system, I'm not sure that that's really a need for them as they are getting back Ty Warren and have a ton of young, versatile guys. Considering they signed Stroud, that's 3 experienced vets in addition to the young guys. I can see why they didn't feel the need to grab a guy like Jordan, despite the near consensus amongst their fans.

    JMO.
    I'm not convinced Warren will make the team next year. Between his fat contract, numerous injuries and return to school (while commendable on a personal level), I don't think he's exactly in the good graces of the organization right now. Plus, even if he does make the team, he is far more run plugger than pass rusher.

    Given the relative (and, arguably, complete) absence on the roster of 3-down DE's who can rush the passer, I thought Jordan would have been a natural fit. I assume that the Pats either disagreed, didn't like Jordan for some other reason, or liked Jordan well enough, but simply thought that Solder as projected would be more valuable to the team than Jordan as projected.

    I can understand why they didn't trade up for Quinn, the winner of this year's Sergio Kindle award for the top tier pass rusher with the most red flags. In Quinn's case, he has health concerns (past brain tumor), conversion concerns (can he play OLB?), rust concerns (over a year since he last played football), and production concerns (I remember reading somewhere that all but 1 of his sacks were against cupcake teams). He is certainly talented and could very well turn into a great player, but that seems like too many variables/red flags to justify a trade up in the first round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCEastFan View Post
    Given the relative (and, arguably, complete) absence on the roster of 3-down DE's who can rush the passer, I thought Jordan would have been a natural fit. I assume that the Pats either disagreed, didn't like Jordan for some other reason, or liked Jordan well enough, but simply thought that Solder as projected would be more valuable to the team than Jordan as projected.
    Jordan would have been a luxury pick. they NEED someone to replace Matt Light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    Cam Jordan or Heyward would have both fit your system just fine. It's just like Chris Carter would have fit our system and I am not thrilled that we passed on him. I trust our FO but kinda wanted the player. Blind homerism is not good.
    Totally agreed on Carter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Jordan would have been a luxury pick. they NEED someone to replace Matt Light.
    Just like Carolina NEEDED to take a QB over probably safer picks. Jordan is not a luxury pick, the player is that good. I'd say the RB's were luxury picks when they got very good production from both BGE and Woodehead last year.

    I hope Solder shows what I think he's going to show at the next level, it'll be good for the Jets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    I hope Solder shows what I think he's going to show at the next level, it'll be good for the Jets.
    FWIW:

    Scott Wright: Who is the best opposing player youíve faced in your college career?

    Von Miller: Nate Solder. Heís a beast. When youíre that big and youíre that quick, itís real scary for guys like me. He can match you on every step. And I went against other guys: Jason Smith, Trent Williams, and Russell Okung. All those guys are great, but Nate Solderís excellent.

    http://packerchatters.com/?p=24567

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gastineau99 View Post
    Pats passed on a lot m ore DE/OLBs than what was available at 27. They could have taken a pass rusher instead of Solder (and still got another solid O-Lineman later), or even traded up a few spots to grab a guy like JJ Watt.

    I was thrilled with the Pats draft (or lack there of).
    Pats draft was very good for the Jets , lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham View Post
    Here's where the Pats screwed up in my view, trading down in RD's 1 (late) and 3 (late) when they should have stayed put and drafted Mo Wilkerson and Kenrick Ellis for themselves, and of course that also means the Jets wouldn't have snagged either of these players because the Pats had first dibs on both DL's had they not traded out of those spots.

    IMO this will come back to haunt the Pats on both ends, passing on these DL's and allowing them to become Jets.

    When the Pats were winning SB's, I thought their greatest strength not counting the QB and HC was on their D-line where they had dominant starters and rotational DL's who could have started on other teams including the Jets, so they were able to rotate DL's all game long, keep them fresh, and come at you in waves with high quality DL's

    IMO they had an opportunity to replicate that had they drafted Wilkerson and Ellis and that missed opportunity became the Jets opportunity to replicate what the Pats had up front when they were winning SB's
    seymour and law.

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