Bin Laden relatives want probe and proof of death (CNN)
[QUOTE](CNN) -- Relatives of Osama bin Laden want proof that the terrorist leader is dead and are calling for an investigation into how he was killed, according to Jean Sasson, an author who helped one of bin Laden's sons write a memoir.
"They just really want some answers, and they would just really like to know what exactly happened, why they weren't called," said Sasson, who worked with Omar bin Laden to pen a memoir titled "Growing Up bin Laden."
The United States says U.S. Navy SEALs killed bin Laden during a May 2 raid in Abbottabad, Pakistan, where he was hiding out.
The forces collected a trove of intelligence from the compound and later buried bin Laden's body at sea. While the Obama administration has decided not to release photos of the slain bin Laden, some U.S. lawmakers will be allowed to view them.
Bin Laden's relatives "would like to have been able to have witnessed seeing the body, at least identified the body, because, you know how it is in the Middle East so many times: They really need proof or people start believing -- this has been discussed by a lot more people than me -- that many people will not believe that he's dead," Sasson told CNN Wednesday.
Her comments come a day after a statement from Omar bin Laden and his brothers was provided to The New York Times.
Asked about the statement, Sasson said Omar bin Laden -- who has publicly denounced his father's violence -- contacted her and told her he has some things to say. She said she prepared a letter for him and he approved it.
Another family member had gotten an attorney to write a letter about what relatives were thinking and feeling and Sasson said it was decided to go with the attorney's letter.
The statement published in The New York Times is from bin Laden's sons -- "the lawful children and heirs" of the notorious al Qaeda leader.
It says that despite the extensive coverage of his death, "we are not convinced on the available evidence in the absence of (a) dead body, photographs, and video evidence that our natural father is dead."
"We seek such conclusive evidence to believe the stories published in relation to 2 May 2011 operation Geronimo as declared by the President of United States Barack Hussein Obama in his speech that he authorized the said operation and killing of OBL and later confirmed his death," they said.
The statement argued that if bin Laden has been "summarily executed," "international law" might have been "blatantly violated" and that U.S. legal standards were ignored.
The statement cites the trials for late Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and late Serbian strongman Slobodan Milosevic, and notes that Osama bin Laden didn't get a "fair trial" or "presumption of innocence until proven guilty by a court of law."
"If OBL has been killed in that operation as (the) president of United States has claimed then we are just in questioning as per media reports that why an unarmed man was not arrested and tried in a court of law so that truth is revealed to the people of the world."
"We maintain that arbitrary killing is not a solution to political problems and crime's adjudication as justice must be seen to be done," the statement said.
Three other men, including one of bin Laden's sons, and a woman were killed in the raid, and bin Laden's 29-year-old Yemeni wife, Amal Ahmed Abdulfattah, was wounded.
All three of bin Laden's wives and a number of children, some of whom were bin Laden's, were taken into Pakistani custody after the raid. A U.S. official identified the other two women as Khairiah Sabar, also known as "Umm Hamza," and Siham Sabar, or "Umm Khalid."
"It is also unworthy of the special forces to shoot unarmed female family members ... killing a female and that of one of his sons," the statement said.
"In making this statement, we want to remind the world that Omar (bin Laden), the fourth-born son of our father, always disagreed with our father regarding any violence and always sent messages to our father, that he must change his ways and that no civilians should be attacked under any circumstances.
"Despite the difficulty of publicly disagreeing with our father, he never hesitated to condemn any violent attacks made by anyone, and expressed sorrow for the victims of any and all attacks. As he condemned our father, we now condemn the president of the United States for ordering the execution of unarmed men and women," the statement said.
It also urged Pakistan "to release and hand over" the wives and the children of bin Laden. The authors of the statement called for a U.N. investigation into the event and said they will pursue justice in bodies such as the International Criminal Court if questions aren't answered.
A senior U.S. official Wednesday angrily rejected the charge that international law was violated.
"There is an inherent right of self-defense enshrined in the U.N. charter within Article 51. This is a man who is a terrorist, who declared war on the United States, killed Americans and continued to plan operations against the U.S. and its allies," the official said.
The raid in which bin Laden was killed dealt a blow to the relationship between the United States and Pakistan. The revelation that bin Laden had been living in Pakistan has fueled suspicions that Pakistani officials knew the whereabouts of the terrorist leader, while Pakistan has complained about the U.S. military incursion.
But while the ties between the CIA and Pakistan's intelligence agency are strained, they are not shut down, another U.S. official said.
This official, who did not want to be identified for safety concerns, said both sides need to continue working together.
"Both sides understand the importance of the relationship," the official said. "Cooperation is continuing, discussions are continuing, but there are issues to work through."
Sen. John Kerry, D-Massachusetts, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, plans to go to Pakistan soon, a Senate source familiar with his plans said Wednesday. He has visited the country at other times and has the trust and respect of many senior Pakistani officials.
Most recently, Kerry visited Pakistan to help defuse tensions over the detention of Raymond Davis, a CIA contractor who was jailed in Pakistan after he shot and killed two Pakistani men in what he said was a robbery attempt. He was released from jail after compensation was paid to the victims' families.
White House spokesman Jay Carney said the administration is encouraging Kerry's trip.
"We think it's important as part of the overall efforts by the United States government to continue our collaborative relationship with Pakistan and the cooperation that we have seen in the past," Carney said.
"While we don't see eye to eye on the issues, that cooperation has led to some very important successes in our war against al Qaeda. We are working at the administration level to continue our consultations with Pakistani leaders, to continue that kind of cooperation, and are glad to see Senator Kerry make that trip as well."
In the aftermath of the U.S. raid on bin Laden's compound, Pakistani Interior Minister Rehman Malik told CNN Tuesday that the United States will be given access to bin Laden's wives and children "so they can interrogate them, they can interview them."
A senior Pakistani intelligence source had said earlier that the United States could question bin Laden's wives only if their "country of origin has been asked for permission."
Malik did not say when or where the United States would be able to question the wives. Pentagon spokesman Col. Dave Lapan said Tuesday U.S. and Pakistani officials were discussing the matter.
Carney said the administration is optimistic that U.S.-Pakistani cooperation "will continue with regards to" access to bin Laden's wives "and also to the materials that were collected by the Pakistanis after the U.S. commandos left" the compound where they killed bin Laden.
He described the U.S.-Pakistani relationship as "important and complicated."[/QUOTE]
So, should they get their probe, their investigation?
Folks were big on wanting investigations in the past.
If it were found that Obama ordered an execution flat out, and broke international Law, should he be tried?
Folks liked the idea of trying sitting US Presidents in the past.
Is Obama above the Law?
Is Terrorism still an issue for Law....or is assassination now an acceptable U.S. Tactic in the conflict?
Just curious where the former Doves/Dems stand today, in this brave new World.
Personally, I'm all for an outright execution, am glad he's dead, and would not try Obama even IF he broke Internation Law in ordering an illegal assassination over the law issue" of Terrorism.
Bin Ladens family can suck my d*ck. We should have flown the planes we used to scuttle them out of the country after 9/11 directly to CIA Black Sites to get bamboo shoved up their fingernails. For fun.
Proof of death?
How about we drop an I-beam from the WTC through the roof of your crappy sand mansion.
And to answer 'Fish's question....yes, assasination os completely acceptable. In fact, it kinda what we should have done to off Saddam. Sending 100k troops to the tune of 1 trillion dollars to kill one man if f-ing dumb. But then again, the brain trust that came up with that idea are Viagara-riddled fossils who remember when Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in professional sports.
Last edited by PlumberKhan; 05-11-2011 at 06:32 PM.
[QUOTE=Warfish;4026295]So, should they get their probe, their investigation?[/QUOTE]
No. As Plumber said, bin Laden's family can go f*ck themselves. The guy was a mass murderer who got off easy as far as I'm concerned.
[QUOTE=Warfish;4026295]Folks were big on wanting investigations in the past.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't one of them.
[QUOTE=Warfish;4026295]If it were found that Obama ordered an execution flat out, and broke international Law, should he be tried?[/QUOTE]
No. We've tried to execute heads of state before (Kennedy with Castro, Reagan with Qaddafi, etc) and they've never been tried before (nor should they have). This was a criminal who was behind attrocities that were committed worldwide.
[QUOTE=Warfish;4026295]Folks liked the idea of trying sitting US Presidents in the past.[/QUOTE]
Not that I agreed with them, but invading a country for no reason whatsoever is a bit different than hunting down a terrorist mastermind.
[QUOTE=Warfish;4026295]Is Obama above the Law?
Is Terrorism still an issue for Law....or is assassination now an acceptable U.S. Tactic in the conflict?[/QUOTE]
It has been for a while now. Other than the fact that soldiers directly shot bin Laden, how is this different than some of the drone attacks that were carried out?
[QUOTE=Warfish;4026295]Just curious where the former Doves/Dems stand today, in this brave new World.[/QUOTE]
I'm curious what the conservative stance on this would be if there were cries for Obama to be tried. Somehow I doubt it would be the "F*ck what the rest of the world thinks!" stance they've had in the past.
[QUOTE=Warfish;4026295]Personally, I'm all for an outright execution, am glad he's dead, and would not try Obama even IF he broke Internation Law in ordering an illegal assassination over the law issue" of Terrorism.
I prefer the angle that it was "self-defense." ;) Like when those corrupt sheriffs in the old west would release a prisoner, give him his gun an shoot him down and say he tried to escape. This is a massive game. Everybody knows what happened, but you'll never prove it. Which is just fine in this instance.
Now if Obama sanctioned Abu Graib or some such low life operations, I might feel differently....
and we give a rats a$$ how his family feels, how do the families of the 9/11 attacks feel? how about all the other ppl this jerk killed outside of 9/11, he went after women, children, he didnt care, we should take out his whole family and half of Pakistan with em! its time to stop the slap on the wrist @#$%! lets show these morons we're fed up and not goinf to take it anymore!
After campaigning vigorously against President Bush’s terror policies, Barack Obama continued a good many of them after assuming the presidency. To those policies, along with the Navy SEALS who entered the Abbottabad compound, go the credit for the long-awaited, bullet-to-the-head takedown of Osama bin Laden. Here are the Top 10 Bush Terror Policies Continued by Obama.
1. Special Forces funded: Since 9/11, funding for U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) has tripled, even as its overseas deployments quadrupled. This Pentagon unit oversees all the military services’ elite Special Forces units, including the Navy SEAL Team Six that was dispatched to Osama bin Laden's Pakistani hideaway. Under Obama, the command continues to be well-funded even during times of economic problems and budget cutbacks. The Pentagon is seeking a 7% budget increase for SOCOM in fiscal 2012, and the command is fielding the first of its 72 new MH-60M helicopters, while upgrading other aging hardware.
2. Military tribunals: President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder were determined to end military tribunals and try terrorist detainees in criminal courts. Only when Congress rebelled and New Yorkers denounced the since-revoked decision to try 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in Lower Manhattan, did the administration back down and accept the obvious—that deadly terrorists couldn’t be allowed the full set of rights afforded in U.S. federal court. Do we really want a committed jihadist to be set free because a Navy SEAL didn’t read him his Miranda rights when pulling him out of a cave in Tora Bora?
3. Iraq not abandoned: Obama won the presidency with the help of the anti-war Left by promising a quick end to the Iraq War. He has stayed the course long enough for the country to stabilize following the Bush surge, which Obama opposed. Now, with the Middle East pushing out longtime rulers, the new leaders can choose from two models: a democratic Iraq or a demonic Iran .
4. Gitmo still open: Obama’s first act as President was signing an executive order to close the facility holding terrorist detainees at Guantanamo Bay within a year. More than two years later, he has finally concluded that there is nowhere else to house such murderous jihadists.
5. Renditions continued: Obama has continued a version of the Bush practice of renditions. No wonder. It was in a secret prison in Eastern Europe where a waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed gave intelligence to the CIA helping to identify Osama bin Laden’s couriers, one of whom led U.S. Special Forces to his doorstep.
6. Afghanistan surge: Obama foolishly set a date for troop withdrawal in Afghanistan, but he partially accepted his general’s recommendation for more military personnel for the battle. Under Obama, the number of troops in Afghanistan has doubled since Bush left office. Let’s hope the Commander-in-Chief ignores his own deadline and lets the military do its job.
7. Indefinite detention: Even while Obama and Holder wrung their hands over how to bring terrorists to justice, ultimately they came to the same conclusion that Bush reached: There are some detainees who are so dangerous that they can never be released. At one point, Holder even went so far as to say that he would try hard-core Gitmo detainees in criminal courts, but if an acquittal was reached, he would still keep them imprisoned.
8. Surveillance maintained: The Left went crazy over Bush’s so-called assault on civil liberties when the Patriot Act allowed the surveillance of calls from suspected terrorists coming from overseas and permitted the FBI to obtain certain phone records without warrants. Obama’s Justice Department has given legal authority for the continuation of the policy, with the anti-war crowd voicing only muted concern.
9. Record number of drones: Obama has greatly increased the number of unmanned drones used in Afghanistan, an effective weapon against the enemy in rough terrain. One abhors the persistent civilian casualties, but it also greatly reduces U.S. troop deaths.
10. Killing terrorists: Bush said, “Bring ’em on,” when al-Qaeda flocked to Iraq, and he sent intelligence agents and Special Forces around the world to aggressively track down terrorists. American warriors have continued the long battle with continued success during the Obama administration. But because the targeting of an individual for assassination is legally murky, the shot into the head of Osama bin Laden would not have happened if the Obama-supporting American Civil Liberties Union had gotten its way.[/quote]
[QUOTE=AlbanyJet;4026682]Barack 'Waterboarding is Torture" Obama had the US Navy blow-the-heads-off of some teenage Somali pirates a few years ago and now he does essentially the same with unarmed OBL.
Accounts of the events in both situations came exclusively from the White House.