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Thread: Most likely scenario for Nov '12

  1. #41
    [QUOTE=Tyler Durden;4029292]I said a lot, not all. Obviously the Republicans aren't a good alternative right now (but keep in mind Bush did well with Latinos in 2004), more reason to stay home on election day. Democrats can't expect to keep getiing the Latino vote when they have done very little for them in return. Appointing Sonia Sotomayor is nice and all, but that's isn't enough.[/QUOTE]

    I am not sure of where you work, but the Latin voting block is diverse and the democrats will use a lot of information that President Obama used last week in his speech to the Latin Americans (fence lines, Az lawmen). The republicans don't have much to stand on.

    Bush won with 45% of the Latin vote. The republicans will be lucky to to get 30% this time as President Obama won with 67% last time. He will not lose much of that support and in fact it is in a great position to grow from there.

  2. #42
    the OBL killing by Seal Team 6 as ordered by Obama cements his place in history as a well above average President. No matter when has happened before or since. We can't compare Carter and W Bush to Obama. He is in a higher tier than those guys purely because he got Bin Ladin. Saying otherwise is just haterade. and it doesn't matter cause when they will write the history books America and Obama will be winners.

  3. #43
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4029385]the OBL killing by Seal Team 6 as ordered by Obama cements his place in history as a well above average President. No matter when has happened before or since. We can't compare Carter and W Bush to Obama. He is in a higher tier than those guys purely because he got Bin Ladin. Saying otherwise is just haterade. and it doesn't matter cause when they will write the history books America and Obama will be winners.[/QUOTE]

    He's sooooo dreeeeeamy.

  4. #44
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    Somebody would have to break out the criteria being used to determine presidential ranking. The two obvious criteria would be effectiveness in getting platform/agenda implemented, and the old Reagan quote, "is America better off after the President's term than before." Of course, one has to consider the situation on entering office. Harding faced a very different scenario than Wilson; Obama, very different than GW Bush, Franklin Roosevelt very different than Eisenhower, etc., not only in terms of congressional balance but domestic and foreign status.

    On the first criterion, somebody like Jimmy Carter actually scores as highly successful. He was very good at quietly getting his initiatives passed. As a leader in every other regard, he was a pinhead. LBJ was probably one of the most powerful executives ever. And that was probably also his problem. He got what he wanted, even when he shouldn't have.

  5. #45
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4029385]the OBL killing by Seal Team 6 as ordered by Obama cements his place in history as a well above average President. No matter when has happened before or since. We can't compare Carter and W Bush to Obama. He is in a higher tier than those guys purely because he got Bin Ladin. Saying otherwise is just haterade. and it doesn't matter cause when they will write the history books America and Obama will be winners.[/QUOTE]

    Meh. Things like the botched oil spill cleanup still happened.

    Honestly, if the Pubs did unseat Obama in '12 and repealed the healthcare bill, he'd go down as a bigger failure than Bush.

    Nothing to worry about on that front just yet, just speaking hypothetically. OBL won't save him from domestic policy failure.

  6. #46
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;4029416]Somebody would have to break out the criteria being used to determine presidential ranking. The two obvious criteria would be effectiveness in getting platform/agenda implemented[/quote]

    Really? Being very effective at getting a agenda implemented that fails horribly and has lasting negative repurcussions hardly sounds like a positive.

    [QUOTE]"is America better off after the President's term than before."[/QUOTE]

    "Better" by whos definition? Think you'll ever get Left and Right to agree on what "better" means? Just take Healthcare, Left thinks we're better, right thinks we're much worse.

    [QUOTE]Of course, one has to consider the situation on entering office.[/QUOTE]

    So one can know which previous President of the other party to blame for all the bad, whilst taking credit for all the good.

    In summery, the days of any truly objective judgment over the work of a President is long gone, as is any other objective thinking in the majority over policy and productivity of a given term of a given office. Everything today is seen purely through the prisim of two-sided dogma, left/right ideology and ones own party loyalty. This threads responses display that rather clearly.

    Listing "Best" and "Worst" Presidents today is as worthless a watse of time as ranking the greatest music acts of all time. Such lists say far more about the list voters, than it does about the people being voted on.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4029467]Really? Being very effective at getting a agenda implemented that fails horribly and has lasting negative repurcussions hardly sounds like a positive.



    "Better" by whos definition? Think you'll ever get Left and Right to agree on what "better" means? Just take Healthcare, Left thinks we're better, right thinks we're much worse.



    So one can know which previous President of the other party to blame for all the bad, whilst taking credit for all the good.

    In summery, the days of any truly objective judgment over the work of a President is long gone, as is any other objective thinking in the majority over policy and productivity of a given term of a given office. Everything today is seen purely through the prisim of two-sided dogma, left/right ideology and ones own party loyalty. This threads responses display that rather clearly.

    Listing "Best" and "Worst" Presidents today is as worthless a watse of time as ranking the greatest music acts of all time. Such lists say far more about the list voters, than it does about the people being voted on.[/QUOTE]

    Geez, who peed in your Wheaties today? I was just trying to get somebody to be a bit more rational about the best/worst list, which I agree is based more on emotion than thought. Wasn't amking a case for Jimmy Carter or anybody else. I'm not sure what any of it would prove (probably very little). You're right about the last part... it likely would say more about the voter than the president...

    Now, as to the greatest musical acts of all time.... :D

  8. #48
    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;4029458]Meh. Things like the botched oil spill cleanup still happened.

    Honestly, if the Pubs did unseat Obama in '12 and repealed the healthcare bill, he'd go down as a bigger failure than Bush.

    Nothing to worry about on that front just yet, just speaking hypothetically. OBL won't save him from domestic policy failure.[/QUOTE]

    mark my words... people who claim to hate Obamacare now.... will eventually love it and it will be another sacred cow like Medicare.

    theres this right wing hatred of any benefits... but once it actually happens people will wonder how we got by without it.

  9. #49
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;4029492]Geez, who peed in your Wheaties today?[/quote]

    No one. Been a great day, absolutely gorgeous outside, work goign well, etc.

    Sorry if reality is too unpleasant, but nothing I wrote is indicitive of a bad mood or any other such girlish sillynesss.

    [QUOTE]I was just trying to get somebody to be a bit more rational about the best/worst list[/QUOTE]

    And I was reminding you that "rational" is in the eye of the beholder in such things, for example, ask all our lefties where Reagan should rank. You'll get a few who may grudgingly put him in the top 10 at 9 or 10), but most (and history of this forum shows this to be true) would place him well outside that top 10.

    [quote]Now, as to the greatest musical acts of all time.... :D[/QUOTE]

    If you'd like to see me get all fundamental extremist on you, THAT is a topic where I'd go all wild and crazy eyes, lol.:yes::D

  10. #50
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4029497]theres this right wing hatred of any UNEARNED WELFARE TAXPAYER FUNDED FREEBIE benefits... but once it actually happens people will wonder how we got by without it.[/QUOTE]

    Fixed.

    And when 50% of the Pop don't pay much in, it's no suprise that 50% is supportive of free **** Bit.

  11. #51
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4029509]Fixed.

    And when 50% of the Pop don't pay much in, it's no suprise that 50% is supportive of free **** Bit.[/QUOTE]

    the entire Iraq war was free to the people of Iraq

    this gov't does alot of "free" things, but outside of the wonky discussions.. Citizens like benefits.

  12. #52
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4029540]the entire Iraq war was free to the people of Iraq[/quote]

    An issue we agree on, I should remind you.

    [quote]this gov't does alot of "free" things, but outside of the wonky discussions.. Citizens like benefits.[/QUOTE]

    Leaches like benefits.

    Citizens like small, limited, responsabile Government that doesn't steal from them to pay for the lazy, unmotivated, illegals and the stupid.

  13. #53
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4029548]Citizens like small, limited, responsabile Government that doesn't steal from them to pay for the lazy, unmotivated, illegals and the stupid.[/QUOTE]

    lol!

    +1 btw.

  14. #54
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    It's too early to tell.

    Like the past couple of elections, the focus will be on the economy. As of today, the economy is improving, but we are still in a very sensitive period where things can change quickly and drastically.

    A long term deficit reduction and budget plan may be the key to this election. Personally, I am looking for leadership from any party/candidate with the most sensible and effective combination of tax reform and government budget cuts.

    The cynic in me says it will come down to a set of social wedge issues, a "flavor of the week" to be determined next year.

  15. #55
    [QUOTE]Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates is stepping down in a little more than a month and appears quite willing to rate the eight presidents for whom hes served.[/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/robert-gates-rates-the-eight-presidents-he-worked-for/2011/05/15/AFha6o4G_blog.html?wprss=federal-eye&%3Ftid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost[/url]

  16. #56
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4029385]the OBL killing by Seal Team 6 as ordered by Obama cements his place in history as a well above average President. No matter when has happened before or since. We can't compare Carter and W Bush to Obama. He is in a higher tier than those guys purely because he got Bin Ladin. Saying otherwise is just haterade. and it doesn't matter cause when they will write the history books America and Obama will be winners.[/QUOTE]

    You're the guy who insists torture is not only wrong, but nets no results, right?

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=Tyler Durden;4028899]Christie wouldn't win his own state.

    [url]http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1299.xml?ReleaseID=1590[/url]
    [url]http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/05/new_jersey_voters_poll_shows_o.html[/url]

    If Christie gets a formidable candidate to run against him (I.E. Cory Booker) he will have his hands full. He is no slam dunk to get re-elected in NJ.[/QUOTE]

    :rolleyes:

    Wow. A largely Democratic state would vote Democratic in a Presidental election? Like they always do?

    Shocker.

    Tell me, what Republican candidate [I]would [/I]win NJ?

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4029385]the OBL killing by Seal Team 6 as ordered by Obama cements his place in history as a well above average President. No matter when has happened before or since. We can't compare Carter and W Bush to Obama. He is in a higher tier than those guys purely because he got Bin Ladin. Saying otherwise is just haterade. and it doesn't matter cause when they will write the history books America and Obama will be winners.[/QUOTE]

    [IMG]http://kara.allthingsd.com/files/2009/09/kool-aid-man.jpg[/IMG]

  19. #59
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    I judge a President in how effective he/she implements policy and leadership within the guidelines set forth by The Constitution of the United States of America.

    When guys like G.W. Bush and Obama come along and basically wipe their ass with said document, they go right to the bottom of my list. Both have significantly increased the power of the Executive Branch, illegally I would add. They have done as much damage to the structure and balance in government than we have seen in my lifetime.

    It frightens me how tolerant most people in the country are of this fact.

    I would say the only thing that makes Bush worse is that his complete failure as a president is what enabled Obama to get elected in the first place. I'm hoping the damage Obama inflicts finally serves as a wakeup call to the citizens of this country by 2016 and we finally see a return to the proper debates. Because if we don't, then we're doomed.

  20. #60
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    The last time a candidate lost his home state but still won the presidency was ironically Woodrow Wilson, who was the Governor of New Jersey before being elected President of the United States.

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