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Thread: Rick Santorum: John McCain "doesn't understand how enhanced interrogation works."

  1. #1
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    Rick Santorum: John McCain "doesn't understand how enhanced interrogation works."

    [B]Rick Santorum: John McCain 'doesn't understand' enhanced interrogation[/B]

    Rick Santorum said Tuesday that Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who was tortured as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, "doesn't understand how enhanced interrogation works."

    Speaking on Hugh Hewitt’s radio show, Santorum, the presidential hopeful and former Pennsylvania senator, says McCain is misguided in his stance against the enhanced interrogation techniques sanctioned during the Bush administration but discontinued by Obama's White House, which has labeled them torture.

    “Everything I’ve read shows that we would not have gotten this information as to who this man was if it had not been gotten information from people who were subject to enhanced interrogation,” Santorum said, referring to the courier that led Americans to Osama bin Laden. “And so this idea that we didn’t ask that question while Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was being waterboarded, he doesn’t understand how enhanced interrogation works. I mean, you break somebody, and after they’re broken, they become cooperative.”

    With the torture debate reignited by bin Laden's death, McCain has argued that enhanced interrogation did not lead the United States to the terror leader, and that his death should not be used to justify past use of techniques like waterboarding. Last week, McCain took to the Washington Post’s op-ed page, saying that techniques like waterboarding have no place in American interrogation policies.

    [url]http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55140.html#ixzz1MdZVS4EV[/url]

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    Hi Tyler!

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    [IMG]http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/6/6/1/1/facepalm.jpg[/IMG]

    And another one bites the dust

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    From what I've read, certain parts of the US Military get anti-interrogation training (pilots are probably in this group), so for McCain enhanced interrogation would not work.

    Crazy guy who was a camel salesman last week? Totally. different. story. :eek:

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=quantum;4031139]From what I've read, certain parts of the US Military get anti-interrogation training (pilots are probably in this group), so for McCain enhanced interrogation would not work.

    Crazy guy who was a camel salesman last week? Totally. different. story. :eek:[/QUOTE]

    Camels sell themselves, dummy

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    [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bin-ladens-death-and-the-debate-over-torture/2011/05/11/AFd1mdsG_story.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bin-ladens-death-and-the-debate-over-torture/2011/05/11/AFd1mdsG_story.html[/URL]

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    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4031157]In fariness to Santorum, I think what he means is John McCain is mistaken to equate the real torture he suffered at the hands of the Viet-Cong with the E.I. some high level AQ operatives have enountered at Gitmo and elsewhere.

    I think its fair to say John McCain (FOR VERY GOOD REASONS) is perhaps unable to be entirely objective about this topic, predisposed to view any form of coercion (however relatively mild) as rising to the level of torture.

    Certainly it would be understandable if he feels that way, but I think thats what Santorum is getting at.[/QUOTE]

    Right, John McCain doesn't know the specifics of Enhanced Interrogation despite being the ranking member of Armed Services Committee and Homeland Security? Frankly, Ham, the statement above is idiotic. And, yes, I'm sure he has a moral opposition to these practices. Sort of like a Holocaust survivor being opposed to the use of Concentration Camps. And what is Santorum's vast experience/expertise in this area?

  8. #8
    if the torture in 2003 was so effective why did it take until 2011 to get OBL?

    quoting the washington post article above:
    [quote]

    "The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. The first mention of Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the nickname of the al-Qaeda courier who ultimately led us to bin Laden — as well as a description of him as an important member of al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country, who we believe was not tortured. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts or an accurate description of his role in al-Qaeda. " - CIA Director Leon Panetta [/quote]

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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4031216]if the torture in 2003 was so effective why did it take until 2011 to get OBL?

    quoting the washington post article above:[/QUOTE]

    first, i'm not saying torture is or isn't the answer.

    but i find this extremely interesting. tell me, how do you know that it wouldn't have taken even longer than that if they hadn't done it? or if they ever would have gotten OBL?

    you must know something even the most learned CIA agents don't.

  10. #10
    I'm going to give John McCain a total pass on his stance on aggressive interrogation. He got the hell beat out of him for 5 1/2 years. I understand his position.
    As a member of the military, I had "interrogation training". Some of it was difficult but obviously I knew I wasn't going to be killed. That said you can get 99% of people to give you information that they know. And let's not forget there are chemicals that can be used as well.

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    Santorum knows nothing. The proof is out there that under "enhanced interrogation" KSM gave false information, false identity and false location of said courier.

    Sticking by and saying that it worked is just kinda dumb at this point.

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4031240] you must know something even the most learned CIA agents don't.[/QUOTE]

    so when Leon Panetta says waterboarding had nothing to do with the operation... you think he's lying? it's possible... they are after all the CIA

    i just don't think torture is a good tactic to get accurate information. people will say anything to stop torture.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4031776]Santorum knows nothing. The proof is out there that under "enhanced interrogation" KSM gave false information, false identity and false location of said courier.

    Sticking by and saying that it worked is just kinda dumb at this point.[/QUOTE]

    The Bushies were out in full force last week defending torture and claiming water boarding led to bin Laden. Lies coming from the "So I can sleep at night crowd"

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4031776]Santorum knows nothing. The proof is out there that under "enhanced interrogation" KSM gave false information, false identity and false location of said courier.

    Sticking by and saying that it worked is just kinda dumb at this point.[/QUOTE]

    Right - hasn't this misinformation already been corrected? Torture/Enhanced Interrogation did not lead to Bin Laden.


    Anyway, little side note that always made me think while conversing about this... Wouldn't a religious fanatic be the least likely (other than a Navy Seal or Delta or some other ridiculously trained Jason Bourne type) to break under torture?



    The best way to get information is by temptation of pornography and bacon - I don't care how pious you are - it's damn hard to resist these two:

    [IMG]http://www.pornforeman.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/alexis_texas_1.jpg[/IMG]

    [IMG]http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.posterous.com/barryschuler/3UXwKeNQF7LgYzbLQY3xQHUcQD7lgDugFCzGG6e435X0w0QUo8tBNYYT5mbK/crispy_bacon_1.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJFZAE65UYRT34AOQ&Expires=1305734211&Signature=4VFmsdiPWCpHK3tndjsUXgqrc8A%3D[/IMG]

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    [QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4031837]Right - hasn't this misinformation already been corrected? Torture/Enhanced Interrogation did not lead to Bin Laden.
    [/QUOTE]

    It has. But no amount of facts will sway the believers. To them...real life is an episode of "24" with Jack Bauer breaking fingers to save America from the dirty bomb when the timer gets down to 5 seconds.

    Must see TV. :rolleyes:



    [QUOTE]Anyway, little side note that always made me think while conversing about this... Wouldn't a religious fanatic be the least likely (other than a Navy Seal or Delta or some other ridiculously trained Jason Bourne type) to break under torture? [/QUOTE]

    Being that thousands of religious people were burned alive at a stake and DIDN'T confess to being witches should be enough to convince people.

    But obviously not. :nono:

  16. #16
    I don't know if EIT helped lead to UBL's capture or not. That said any President that says Torture is off the table in all circumstances is either lying or a complete fool.

    I will paint two scenarios for those that claim that morally EIT should never be used:

    You are in mall parking lot with your child. Two thugs jump out of a car and grab the child. You manage to grab one of the kidnappers. The other gets away with your child. The clock is ticking and only the captured thug has the info to save your child. Torture him?

    Next scenario. 24 Jack Bauer style scenario. A mass terror attack is imminent. There is a bad guy captured. The clock is ticking. What do you do?

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4031912]You are in mall parking lot with your child. Two thugs jump out of a car and grab the child. You manage to grab one of the kidnappers. The other gets away with your child. The clock is ticking and only the captured thug has the info to save your child. Torture him? [/QUOTE]

    Being that this situation has happened before...does law enforcement currently use torture to catch kidnappers?

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4031160]Camels sell themselves, dummy[/QUOTE]

    I thought [I]goats[/I] sell themselves (you know dual-use food source/sex partner) :confused:

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=quantum;4031937]I thought [I]goats[/I] sell themselves (you know dual-use food source/sex partner) :confused:[/QUOTE]

    And they can cut grass!


    Speaking of which. Weirdest call-off to work today:

    "Sorry...I can't make it in to work today. I'm going to a livestock auction to buy chickens."

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4031939]And they can cut grass!


    Speaking of which. Weirdest call-off to work today:

    "Sorry...I can't make it in to work today. I'm going to a livestock auction to buy chickens."[/QUOTE]

    "C'mon Timmmmy - we know you don't do that!"

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