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Thread: Rick Santorum: John McCain "doesn't understand how enhanced interrogation works."

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=quantum;4031955]"C'mon Timmmmy - we know you don't do that!"[/QUOTE]

    That's when you know the Hamper is becoming to IRL for you.

    <driving with GF...see a bunch of chickens>

    PK: <sticks head out window> TIMMMMM-MMMMAHHHH!!!
    H2B: You need to get out more....

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4031912]I don't know if EIT helped lead to UBL's capture or not. That said any President that says Torture is off the table in all circumstances is either lying or a complete fool.

    I will paint two scenarios for those that claim that morally EIT should never be used:

    You are in mall parking lot with your child. Two thugs jump out of a car and grab the child. You manage to grab one of the kidnappers. The other gets away with your child. The clock is ticking and only the captured thug has the info to save your child. Torture him?

    Next scenario. 24 Jack Bauer style scenario. A mass terror attack is imminent. There is a bad guy captured. The clock is ticking. What do you do?[/QUOTE]

    Sure you can torture them. If its my kid I would beat the crap out of him. But that is shear emotion and anger. The truth of the matter is they will lie in order to by time. They will make up all kinds crap to send you on a wild goose change while their associates have more time to carry out whatever they have planned.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4031765]I'm going to give John McCain a total pass on his stance on aggressive interrogation. He got the hell beat out of him for 5 1/2 years. I understand his position.
    As a member of the military, I had "interrogation training". Some of it was difficult but obviously I knew I wasn't going to be killed. That said [B]you can get 99% of people to give you information that they know[/B]. And let's not forget there are chemicals that can be used as well.[/QUOTE]

    I was in the same military and presumably had the same training. You can get 99% of the people to give you information through aggressive interrogation. The problem is that 99% of that information will be wrong. Thats why "enhanced interrogations" are not effective. This is nothing new.

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;4032172]I was in the same military and presumably had the same training. You can get 99% of the people to give you information through aggressive interrogation. The problem is that 99% of that information will be wrong. Thats why "enhanced interrogations" are not effective. This is nothing new.[/QUOTE]

    Some just don't can't believe that torture does not work. It may work just 1% of the time.

    The primary issue I see here s that the Executive Branch of the USA should not be an advocate of such behavior. Moreover, the proponents of said behavior, even in the Executive/Legislative branches won't go to fight nor put their kids on the front lines.

    Go figure.

    I don't care who you are, you are not leaving here alive

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;4032171]Sure you can torture them. If its my kid I would beat the crap out of him. But that is shear emotion and anger. The truth of the matter is they will lie in order to by time. They will make up all kinds crap to send you on a wild goose change while their associates have more time to carry out whatever they have planned.[/QUOTE]

    So, somehow, these magical people that lie have found a way to suppress or override humans' most basic and strongest instinct: survival. Really? That's quite unbelievable.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=quantum;4032878]So, somehow, these magical people that lie have found a way to suppress or override humans' most basic and strongest instinct: survival. Really? That's quite unbelievable.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, thats the reality. Believe it or not. Thats the truth.

    Tell your torturer what they want to hear. The beatings will stop before they figure out that they were lied to. I think McCain said that the Vietnamese would beat them until they mentioned names of their commanding officers and intel ops on the ground. The names given by his fellow US prisoners were the starting OLmen for the Packers. By the time the Vietnamese figured it out it was too late.

    Same thing happened with KSM. He would make so much crap up, by the time the CIA figured what was BS and what was real, years elapsed.

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;4032913]Yes, thats the reality. Believe it or not. Thats the truth.

    [/QUOTE]

    What "truth" would that be? Pretentious liberals that want to eliminate EIT because of some lofty "we're better than that" BS? :rolleyes:

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=quantum;4032878]So, somehow, these magical people that lie have found a way to suppress or override humans' most basic and strongest instinct: survival. Really? That's quite unbelievable.[/QUOTE]

    See? Right there is the f*cking problem.

    What if you capture a terrorist that you think knows something but doesn't actually?

    To get you to stop, he'll pretend he DOES know and make sh*t up.





    It. Did. NOT. Help. Us. Catch. Bin. Laden.

    KSM. Lied. He. F*cking. Lied.


    McFly? Heee-llo? :P

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=quantum;4032929]What "truth" would that be? Pretentious liberals that want to eliminate EIT because of some lofty "we're better than that" BS? [/QUOTE]

    Libs don't believe in American exceptionalism yet according to them we are exceptionally more moral than others

    :coocoo: :dizzy: :coocoo2:

    Now, back to our regularly scheduled lib terrorist coddling and apologetics

    :real_sad: :cryin: :bigcry:

    [URL]http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/267506/maverick-malice-andrew-c-mccarthy[/URL]
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 05-19-2011 at 11:44 AM.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;4032913]Yes, thats the reality. Believe it or not. Thats the truth.

    Tell your torturer what they want to hear. The beatings will stop before they figure out that they were lied to. I think McCain said that the Vietnamese would beat them until they mentioned names of their commanding officers and intel ops on the ground. The names given by his fellow US prisoners were the starting OLmen for the Packers. By the time the Vietnamese figured it out it was too late.

    Same thing happened with KSM. He would make so much crap up, by the time the CIA figured what was BS and what was real, years elapsed.[/QUOTE]

    I never tortured anyone but knew people who conducted interrogations. You are right - they do lie, at first. The point is when they are caught in a lie the punishment is severe. NO human being is able to resist an absolute level of torture. Maybe some "saint" once in stories we were told of bravery but not buying it. All people can and will crack. It depends on how far interrogators want to go. Loud music and sleep deprivation isn't quite enough.

  11. #31
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    "Pretentious Liberals"

    There's nothing pretentious about opposing torture.



    Wait... does that sound too pretentious?

    :P

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=quantum;4032929]What "truth" would that be? Pretentious liberals that want to eliminate EIT because of some lofty "we're better than that" BS? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]


    No the truth I am talking about is that it is ineffective. I dont care if you get rid of it or not. The bottom line is that 99% of the time it does not work. Its a waste of time.

    The other truth is that "cowboy" conservatives like to talk about using EIT because it makes them feel like tough guys. They dont care if it works or not as long as "we are beating up some bad guys". Yee Hahhhh!!!

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4033127]I never tortured anyone but knew people who conducted interrogations. You are right - they do lie, at first. The point is when they are caught in a lie the punishment is severe. [B]NO human being is able to resist an absolute level of torture. [/B] Maybe some "saint" once in stories we were told of bravery but not buying it. All people can and will crack. It depends on how far interrogators want to go. Loud music and sleep deprivation isn't quite enough.[/QUOTE]

    People who are willing to strap bombs to blow themselves up in order to kill others in the name of religion or whatever other BS cause they believe in, will put up with quite a bit of torture. More than you and I could imagine.

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=Jungle Shift Jet;4032977]Libs don't believe in American exceptionalism yet according to them we are exceptionally more moral than others

    :coocoo: :dizzy: :coocoo2:

    Now, back to our regularly scheduled lib terrorist coddling and apologetics

    :real_sad: :cryin: :bigcry:

    [URL]http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/267506/maverick-malice-andrew-c-mccarthy[/URL][/QUOTE]


    I'm sure people talked when they were drawn and quartered, put on the rack, pulled apart by horses, had their finger nails pulled out, hot pokers stuck into their rectums, thumbscrews applied, hands and feet put into boiling water, eyes gauged out, limbs held into pots of acid, limbs cut off, etc., etc., etc.

    None of the peoples who used these techniques on their enemies are considered exceptional for those actions. Generally we remeber the great societies of the past from what they left behind in art, architecture, medicine, science and law.

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4033127]NO human being is able to resist an absolute level of torture.[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE][IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu190/PlumberKhan/hfork01.jpg[/IMG]
    [B][SIZE="5"]Heretic's Fork[/SIZE][/B]
    Abiuro - "I recant" - the latin phrase engraved into the side of this double-ended two-pronged fork, was the only phrase that the prisoner was allowed to speak. The head was tilted back sharply, with the top two prongs embedded deeply under the flesh of the chin; the bottom two prongs likewise embedded into the flesh above the sternum. The leather strap was fastened tightly behind the neck.



    [IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu190/PlumberKhan/jcradle01.jpg[/IMG]
    [B][SIZE="5"]Judas Cradle[/SIZE][/B]
    The anus, in the vagina, under the scrotum (the 'taint') or under the coccyx is where the peak of this wooden pyramid found itself. A metal belt was wrapped around the victim and then he or she was hoisted atop the point of the pyramid. The torturer could modify the pressure upon their tender areas by raising or lowering the victim.



    [IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu190/PlumberKhan/bripper01.jpg[/IMG]
    [B][SIZE="5"]Breast Ripper[/SIZE][/B]
    This item was used both as a punitive and an interrogational device. Punitively, it was used red-hot to mark the breast of unmarried mothers. In an inquisitory nature it was used on condemned women - convicted of heresy, blasphemy, adultery, self-induced abortion, erotic white magic and any other crime that the inquisitors selected. The claws were used, either cold or heated, on a female's exposed breasts - rendering them into bloody pulps.



    [IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu190/PlumberKhan/pear01.jpg[/IMG]
    [B][SIZE="5"]Pear of Anguish[/SIZE][/B]
    Poire d'angoisser - the Pear of Anguish; the Spanish Mouth Pear; or the Oral, Rectal and Vaginal Pear (for those with less-easily offended sensibilities) - is a hideously cruel device.

    It was made of four 'leaves' which joined together by a hinge at the top. A screw inserted between the leaves could be turned to slowly separate the four lobes of the 'pear', expanding the orifice into which it had been inserted. The torturer could choose whether to simply distend the cavity, or expand the pear to it's absolute maximum and mutilate the prisoner.[/QUOTE]


    I KNEW it!! All those people WERE witches :eek:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g[/url]
    Last edited by PlumberKhan; 05-20-2011 at 07:53 AM.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;4033184]People who are willing to strap bombs to blow themselves up in order to kill others in the name of religion or whatever other BS cause they believe in, will put up with quite a bit of torture. More than you and I could imagine.[/QUOTE]


    Sorry to disagree with a fellow serviceman. With a suicide bomber, death is instant - pain is fleeting. With torture the pain continues. When you start cutting off body parts or use fire, I don't think anyone can resist.
    I am not a sadist and I hope techniques like that are ever used by our country, but other societies are not so humane.
    Torture is not always necessary. There are drugs which can elicit information. Unfortunately many times the subject suffers severe damge and is worthless thereafter.

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4033191]I'm sure people talked when they were drawn and quartered, put on the rack, pulled apart by horses, had their finger nails pulled out, hot pokers stuck into their rectums, thumbscrews applied, hands and feet put into boiling water, eyes gauged out, limbs held into pots of acid, limbs cut off, etc., etc., etc.

    None of the peoples who used these techniques on their enemies are considered exceptional for those actions. [B]Generally we remeber the great societies of the past from what they left behind in art, architecture, medicine, science and law.[/B][/QUOTE]

    So I guess what you're saying is "We're anything but exceptional." :P

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=sourceworx;4033429]So I guess what you're saying is "We're anything but exceptional." :P[/QUOTE]

    We have contributed a ton to law, science, medicine, art, architecture. Not to mention we practically invented the sit-com. In time the sit-com may be viewed as culturally more important than the renaissance?

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4033148]"Pretentious Liberals"

    There's nothing pretentious about opposing torture.



    Wait... does that sound too pretentious?

    :P[/QUOTE]
    What is the word for someone who opposes torture depending upon who the president is?

  20. #40
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    [QUOTE=sackdance;4033581]What is the word for someone who opposes torture depending upon who the president is?[/QUOTE]

    Hypocrite.

    BTW - Happy to report to you that I never supported torture.

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