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Thread: Obama: Israeli border should return to pre-1967 status.

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4033828]No, my only mistake was I picked Denmark, which was a bad example. They stopped being neutral, which escaped my mind (how could I forget Denmark? :rolleyes:)

    The point of that line is that radical Muslims have no beef with many countries. And those countries are the ones that have no affiliation with Israel.

    Now go ahead and try to dispute any other part of my post, you know, the part where the point is really made.

    I find it convenient that you pounced on that one mistake and now want to talk about Denmark instead of the actual topic. Israel.[/QUOTE]

    To paraphrase the fictional character Jack Reacher, "[I]Hit the biggest guy first. When he folds up the others will either give up or run away[/I]."

    And if you don't understand that, you're either stupid or a liar.

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4033832]There's two types of people who don't want to admit that our relationship with Israel has brought us nothing but pain

    1) Liberals who are deathly afraid of seeming insensitive or possibly even anti-Semetic.:eek: I mean you give that up, and you give up one of your biggest political weapons: playing the race/sex/religion card.

    2) "Conservatives" who actually believe and hold onto the fairy tale that we are hated by others because "they are jealous of our freedom", and not because we occupy their homelands :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    And then there's the isolationists that think if we just stop supporting Israel, muslims will love us!

    Oh wait, that's not fair, your point was that we would have to pull out everywhere, right?

    Well I'm certainly for leaving Iraq and Afghanistan... but 9/11 was before both of those right?

    Osama Bin Laden declared war on us because we had some troops in Saudi Arabia during Desert Storm (I). So we shouldn't have done that either, right? Oh wait but that would mean we would have to let Saddam Hussein take over Kuwait and control a huge stake of the world's oil supply and be, you know, batsh*t insane.

    We're in the Middle East because the fuel of the World's economy comes from there. And as long as we need it, we'll be there in some capacity or another and Islamic terrorism will affect us in some capacity or another.

    So maybe you and Ron Paul should think about having the government subsidize alternative energy resources so we can leave that goddam place once and for all... oh wait but that would be a government subsidy!

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    Last edited by SafetyBlitz; 05-20-2011 at 08:19 PM.

  3. #23
    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;4033826][B]Pre and post Six day war borders[/B]:
    [img]http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/maps/borders.gif[/img]


    While both Clinton and Bush demonstrated lukewarm support for a "Palestinian State", neither EVER stated that Israel should concede all lands taken in the wars of '67 or '73.

    That was a HUGE shift, and while Israel might not be the U.K. or Canada, they ARE still an ally...and the only people in that part of the world that have ANYTHING in common with us and don't want to see America fall.[/QUOTE]

    to be clear

    Obama didn't say go back to 1967 period. he said that should be a starting point for negotiation... where the two sides "trade" areas where their people live. the final result would not be the 1967 borders. It would be some sort of negotiation that makes sense.

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;4033840]To paraphrase the fictional character Jack Reacher, "[I]Hit the biggest guy first. When he folds up the others will either give up or run away[/I]."

    And if you don't understand that, you're either stupid or a liar.[/QUOTE]

    :zzz:

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4033842]And then there's the isolationists that think if we just stop supporting Israel, muslims will love us!

    Oh wait, that's not fair, your point was that we would have to pull out everywhere, right?

    Well I'm certainly for leaving Iraq and Afghanistan... but 9/11 was before both of those right?

    Osama Bin Laden declared war on us because we had some troops in Saudi Arabia during Desert Storm (I). So we shouldn't have done that either, right? Oh wait but that would mean we would have to let Saddam Hussein take over Kuwait and control a huge stake of the world's oil supply and be, you know, batsh*t insane.

    We're in the Middle East because the fuel of the World's economy comes from there. And as long as we need it, we'll be there in some capacity or another and Islamic terrorism will affect us in some capacity or another.

    So maybe you and Ron Paul should think about having the government subsidize alternative energy resources so we can leave that goddam place once and for all... oh wait but that would be a government subsidy!

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO![/QUOTE]

    Keep believing that our relationship with Israel has nothing to do with it. They do say that ignorance is bliss. You must be ecstatic.

    Osama Bin Laden's "letter to America" in 2002
    [I]
    In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,

    "Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory" [Quran 22:39]

    "Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (anything worshipped other than Allah e.g. Satan). So fight you against the friends of Satan; ever feeble is indeed the plot of Satan."[Quran 4:76]

    Some American writers have published articles under the title 'On what basis are we fighting?' These articles have generated a number of responses, some of which adhered to the truth and were based on Islamic Law, and others which have not. Here we wanted to outline the truth - as an explanation and warning - hoping for Allah's reward, seeking success and support from Him.

    While seeking Allah's help, we form our reply based on two questions directed at the Americans:

    (Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?
    Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

    As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

    (1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

    a) [B]You attacked us in Palestine:
    [/B]
    (i) [B]Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.[/B]

    (ii) [B]It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this.[/B]

    [B]When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.

    (iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.
    [/B]
    (b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.

    (c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;

    (i) These governments prevent our people from establishing the Islamic Shariah, using violence and lies to do so.

    (ii) These governments give us a taste of humiliation, and places us in a large prison of fear and subdual.

    (iii) These governments steal our Ummah's wealth and sell them to you at a paltry price.

    (iv)[B] These governments have surrendered to the Jews, and handed them most of Palestine, acknowledging the existence of their state over the dismembered limbs of their own people.[/B]

    (v) The removal of these governments is an obligation upon us, and a necessary step to free the Ummah, to make the Shariah the supreme law and to regain Palestine. And our fight against these governments is not separate from out fight against you.

    (d) You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.

    (e) [B]Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.[/B]

    (f) You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down.

    (g) [B]You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.[/B]

    (2) These tragedies and calamities are only a few examples of your oppression and aggression against us. It is commanded by our religion and intellect that the oppressed have a right to return the aggression. Do not await anything from us but Jihad, resistance and revenge. Is it in any way rational to expect that after America has attacked us for more than half a century, that we will then leave her to live in security and peace?!!

    (3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:

    (a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. [B]Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.[/B]

    (b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.

    (c) [B]Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.[/B]

    (d) The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us.

    (e) [B]This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us[/B]. [/I]

  6. #26
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    "JetPotato" rationalizes his insane, isolationist, ridiculous position by posting the words of Osama Bin Laden.

    :eek:




    [QUOTE]It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. [B]It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this[/B].

    When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, [B]Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets [/B]peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.[/QUOTE]


    As for this gem of madness and insanity, this is the core of all of our problems with "the religion of peace" for the last 1400 years or so. Mohammed the horse thief "adopted" and meshed the teachings of Judaism, tribal animism, mixed in a little Ba'al worship, and added his own bat**** crazy ideas and threw in some "Death to Infidels", and claimed to be a "prophet". How the fuq can anyone take seriously the claims that MUSLIMS are the people of Moses and Abraham? Its crazier than the claims of scientology. Screw the religious aspects of this, just take the Historical....and I love how any Muslim will tell people how islam sees Jesus as a "prophet", but murder his followers at every opportunity around the world.


    /endthread
    Last edited by Jet_Engine1; 05-21-2011 at 01:18 AM.

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;4033923]"JetPotato" rationalizes his insane, isolationist, ridiculous position by posting the words of Osama Bin Laden.

    :eek:







    As for this gem of madness and insanity, this is the core of all of our problems with "the religion of peace" for the last 1400 years or so. Mohammed the horse thief "adopted" and meshed the teachings of Judaism, tribal animism, mixed in a little Ba'al worship, and added his own bat**** crazy ideas and threw in some "Death to Infidels", and claimed to be a "prophet". How the fuq can anyone take seriously the claims that MUSLIMS are the people of Moses and Abraham? Its crazier than the claims of scientology. Screw the religious aspects of this, just take the Historical....and I love how any Muslim will tell people how islam sees Jesus as a "prophet", but murder his followers at every opportunity around the world.


    /endthread[/QUOTE]

    Since you're on a roll, now explain to us how Paul of Tarsus rewrote the ministry of Jesus to the Jews (i.e., fulfillment of the prophets) and turned it into an anti-Judaic religion of the Greek and Roman gentiles? Which of course resulted in the centuries old Christian progrom against the Jews as killers of Christ... take off your blinders and you'll see that small fantatical religious movements located in a particular place and time are nothing more than that, until they become harnessed to political power.

    As a side point, I always wondered why God was so parochial that he only spoke to a few earthlings in a specific place when he was launching some new mission (the "Son on the Cross" mission, for example). Wouldn't it have made more sense for God to have disseminated his message to all of humanity at the same time? I mean, is there an energy saving plan here, shortage of telephones in heaven? Makes you wonder... of course, as John Boy was told, it's all a mystery.... ;)

  8. #28
    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4033828]No, my only mistake was I picked Denmark, which was a bad example. They stopped being neutral, which escaped my mind (how could I forget Denmark? :rolleyes:)

    The point of that line is that radical Muslims have no beef with many countries. And those countries are the ones that have no affiliation with Israel.

    Now go ahead and try to dispute any other part of my post, you know, the part where the point is really made.

    I find it convenient that you pounced on that one mistake and now want to talk about Denmark instead of the actual topic. Israel.[/QUOTE]

    You put out an opinion with not one single thing to back it up and then at the end you threw out a one liner to prove your point which was simple ass backwards.

    You then go on to use Radical militant words to back up your supposition.

    Jews and Muslims have lived for centuries together on all the land in the ME and Iran. It's the "Radical" part that is the problem. The Taliban erased ancient Buddha’s that were carved in Mountains in Afghanistan not that many years ago. They can't live with anyone not even those with the same faith.

    Radical Muslims are killing Muslims in Muslim countries all over the world. The only Continent that's been spared is Antarctica. Asia, Russia, Eastern, Southern, Western Europe, The US and South America, Africa and of course the ME has all faced the wrath of this radical ideology.

    This no beef argument with many countries is simply wrong. They have a beef with everyone who doesn't face Mecca and bow down twice a day, they have a beef with Muslims who send their daughters to school.

    While the US has been a staunch ally to Israel, Israel defended their border in the 67 war without US military hardware or our support. The US has continued to be a strong ally and a fair broker of the peace process through several administrations both Democrats and Republicans. Most of the ME actually gets it including Turkey the only Democratic Islamic State in the region.

    The path to peace has been obvious for years. The Israeli position has clearly hardened after decades of failed negiotations followed by new attacks. Obama like Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford and Nixon before him have clearly tried to be honest brokers in reaching for peace. Anyone who calls the US position as worthy of attack by one side or the other is clearly not interested in peace. People who aren't interested in peace are the reason we have a huge military. We don't have to be cowed by their imagined beefs.

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4033980]
    The path to peace has been obvious for years. The Israeli position has clearly hardened after decades of failed negiotations followed by new attacks. [B] Obama like Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford and Nixon before him have clearly tried to be honest brokers in reaching for peace.[/B] Anyone who calls the US position as worthy of attack by one side or the other is clearly not interested in peace. People who aren't interested in peace are the reason we have a huge military. We don't have to be cowed by their imagined beefs.[/QUOTE]
    However none of the others had a Muslim father from Kenya and a good friend who was palestinian..:eek:
    [url]http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/10/nation/na-obamamideast10[/url]

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;4033923]"JetPotato" rationalizes his insane, isolationist, ridiculous position by posting the words of Osama Bin Laden.

    :eek:







    As for this gem of madness and insanity, this is the core of all of our problems with "the religion of peace" for the last 1400 years or so. Mohammed the horse thief "adopted" and meshed the teachings of Judaism, tribal animism, mixed in a little Ba'al worship, and added his own bat**** crazy ideas and threw in some "Death to Infidels", and claimed to be a "prophet". How the fuq can anyone take seriously the claims that MUSLIMS are the people of Moses and Abraham? Its crazier than the claims of scientology. Screw the religious aspects of this, just take the Historical....and I love how any Muslim will tell people how islam sees Jesus as a "prophet", but murder his followers at every opportunity around the world.


    /endthread[/QUOTE]

    Nice rant :rolleyes:

    No argues that Al Qaeda doesn't have insane and unjustifiable beliefs. But that is no reason to ignore them.

    But you've clearly shown how you feel about Islam and blanketing all of its followers with this.

    Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for someone to address why we need to be involved with Israel. At all.

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4033980]You put out an opinion with not one single thing to back it up and then at the end you threw out a one liner to prove your point which was simple ass backwards.

    You then go on to use Radical militant words to back up your supposition.

    Jews and Muslims have lived for centuries together on all the land in the ME and Iran. It's the "Radical" part that is the problem. The Taliban erased ancient Buddha’s that were carved in Mountains in Afghanistan not that many years ago. They can't live with anyone not even those with the same faith.

    Radical Muslims are killing Muslims in Muslim countries all over the world. The only Continent that's been spared is Antarctica. Asia, Russia, Eastern, Southern, Western Europe, The US and South America, Africa and of course the ME has all faced the wrath of this radical ideology.

    This no beef argument with many countries is simply wrong. They have a beef with everyone who doesn't face Mecca and bow down twice a day, they have a beef with Muslims who send their daughters to school.

    While the US has been a staunch ally to Israel, Israel defended their border in the 67 war without US military hardware or our support. The US has continued to be a strong ally and a fair broker of the peace process through several administrations both Democrats and Republicans. Most of the ME actually gets it including Turkey the only Democratic Islamic State in the region.

    The path to peace has been obvious for years. The Israeli position has clearly hardened after decades of failed negiotations followed by new attacks. Obama like Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford and Nixon before him have clearly tried to be honest brokers in reaching for peace. Anyone who calls the US position as worthy of attack by one side or the other is clearly not interested in peace. People who aren't interested in peace are the reason we have a huge military. We don't have to be cowed by their imagined beefs.[/QUOTE]

    Unbelievable.

    Are targets #1 and #2 not Israel and the U.S.?

  12. #32
    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4034039]Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for someone to address why we need to be involved with Israel. At all.[/QUOTE]

    The US relationship with Israel other than acknowledgement really became more strategic after the 73 war and was primarily based on the cold war. The Soviets had infiltrated much of the region and Israel had intelligence, bases of operation the ability to keep trade and specifically oil moving if needed.

    After the Cold war ended they have continued to develop hard weapons with us provide Intel and a base of operations in a region full of enemies many of whom were and are still trying to develop chemical and nuclear weapons.

    Israel strategically has been as important as our Nato allies. They also brokered the weapons exchange with Iran that got our hostages out. They also took out Sadam's nuclear reactor, Syria's nuclear program and have inflicted huge setbacks on Iran's nuclear program.

  13. #33
    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4034042]Unbelievable.

    Are targets #1 and #2 not Israel and the U.S.?[/QUOTE]

    Why don't you take a look at the death count in Africa.

  14. #34
    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4034039]Nice rant :rolleyes:

    No argues that Al Qaeda doesn't have insane and unjustifiable beliefs. But that is no reason to ignore them.

    But you've clearly shown how you feel about Islam and blanketing all of its followers with this.

    Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for someone to address why we need to be involved with Israel. At all.[/QUOTE]

    You dont have a clue about foreign policy or allies versus enemies. Over the past 40 years Israel has taken out nuclear facilities in both Syria and Iraq. They also sabotaged Iran's nuclear program and pushed it back 4-5 years. Not to mention that Israel has continually developed more and more sophisticated weapons and defense systems which they share with America rather than our rivals in China and the USSR.

    Furthermore Israel stands in direct opposition to the Islamist dream of a caliphate in the ME which they would then expand to the rest of the free western societies.

    In terms of alliances and allies only UK and Canada rival the friendship and mutual benefits of the Israeli American alliance.

  15. #35
    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4034059]
    Furthermore Israel stands in direct opposition to the Islamist dream of a caliphate in the ME which they would then expand to the rest of the free western societies. [/QUOTE]

    using what exactly? some box cutters and audio recordings? Thumb drives?

    im all for national security but at some point someone's gotta say it... al q aren't dangerous. not to the USA... not really.

  16. #36
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4034061]using what exactly? some box cutters and audio recordings? Thumb drives?

    im all for national security but at some point someone's gotta say it... al q aren't dangerous. not to the USA... not really.[/QUOTE]

    Actually the danger comes from within. It is happening in Europe as we speak. dont be naive Bit. They will try to use our freedom and openness against us. Paris and London are cities infested with radical Islamists. Laws in those countries are already being passed to appease those groups. Terror from within is like a malignant tumor. In a free society it is extremely difficult to root out.

    It may suprise you to learn that there are co-conspirators to 9/11 living freely in New Jersey and New York right now. The FBI knows who they are they simply dont have the proof necessary to eliminate them. That will always be the weakness of a lawful and free society. The terrorists and Islamists know this and exploit it every chance they get.

  17. #37
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4034061]using what exactly? some box cutters and audio recordings? Thumb drives?

    im all for national security but at some point someone's gotta say it... al q aren't dangerous. not to the USA... not really.[/QUOTE]

    I forgot to address this more directly. Al Q is no threat to the US????? Have you heard of nukes? Dirty bombs? Flying planes in to buildings? blowing up tunnels? They may not be able to harm us conventionally but they certainly are a threat for many many unconventional means

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4034059]You dont have a clue about foreign policy or allies versus enemies. Over the past 40 years Israel has taken out nuclear facilities in both Syria and Iraq. They also sabotaged Iran's nuclear program and pushed it back 4-5 years. Not to mention that Israel has continually developed more and more sophisticated weapons and defense systems which they share with America rather than our rivals in China and the USSR.

    Furthermore Israel stands in direct opposition to the Islamist dream of a caliphate in the ME which they would then expand to the rest of the free western societies.

    In terms of alliances and allies only UK and Canada rival the friendship and mutual benefits of the Israeli American alliance.[/QUOTE]

    ROFLMAO. Not gobbling up political rhetoric doesn't make one clueless.

    Israel would have done all of that with or without us. It is necessary to their survival. Which again, has nothing to do with the U.S.

    Iraq, Iran, Syria. None of them have been a threat to attack American soil. If they are, we can handle it ourselves. We don't need Israel.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4034047]Why don't you take a look at the death count in Africa.[/QUOTE]

    African genocide is a completely different topic

  20. #40
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4034065]Actually the danger comes from within. It is happening in Europe as we speak. dont be naive Bit. They will try to use our freedom and openness against us. Paris and London are cities infested with radical Islamists. Laws in those countries are already being passed to appease those groups. Terror from within is like a malignant tumor. In a free society it is extremely difficult to root out.

    It may suprise you to learn that there are co-conspirators to 9/11 living freely in New Jersey and New York right now. The FBI knows who they are they simply dont have the proof necessary to eliminate them. That will always be the weakness of a lawful and free society. The terrorists and Islamists know this and exploit it every chance they get.[/QUOTE]

    And Israel is doing what to help us eliminate the enemies on our own soil? That are here because of our alliance with them?

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