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Thread: Obama: Israeli border should return to pre-1967 status.

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4034093]That are here because of our alliance with them?[/QUOTE]

    That statement is entirely speculatory on your part...

  2. #42
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    nothing like an Israel thread to draw out all the anti-Semites on the left and right-the morally bankrupt intersection of Liberal Street and Libertarian Avenue

    no wonder our Muslim in Chief feels emboldened to dictate to Israel what they should do, he's got a lot of support

    why do "we" care about Israel...

    does anyone really have to ask this question?

    "al Q" is no threat...not really...

    only the biggest dopes in America would assert this...if it was no threat there was no need to use EIT-acquired info to plug OBL

    allegedly educated professional yet obviously disturbed people here repeatedly defending Islamic sociopathy in the name of what, exactly?
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 05-21-2011 at 05:20 PM.

  3. #43
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    the 1967 outrage is the new individual mandate

    an idea the republicans were for... until Obama adopted it...

    [quote]
    the 1967 lines have been the basic Middle-East-peace idea for at least the last 12 years. “This is what Bill Clinton, Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat were talking about at Camp David, and later, at Taba. This is what George W. Bush was talking about with Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert.”[/quote]

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=Jungle Shift Jet;4034137]nothing like an Israel thread to draw out all the anti-Semites on the left and right-the morally bankrupt intersection of Liberal Street and Libertarian Avenue

    no wonder our Muslim in Chief feels emboldened to dictate to Israel what they should do, he's got a lot of support

    why do "we" care about Israel..."al Q" is no threat...not really...

    allegedly educated professional yet obviously disturbed people here repeatedly defending Islamic sociopathy in the name of what, exactly?[/QUOTE]

    Yea, we know - if you're not a conservative Republican, you hate this country. If you think Israel needs to compromise on certain issues you're an anti-semite. Obama = Muslim in Chief.

    I'm starting think you're Stephen Colbert, or better yet, Drunk Kid Catholic / Tyler Durden's third alias in order to discredit Conservatism.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4034142]Yea, we know - if you're not a conservative Republican, you hate this country. If you think Israel needs to compromise on certain issues you're an anti-semite. Obama = Muslim in Chief.

    I'm starting think you're Stephen Colbert, or better yet, Drunk Kid Catholic / Tyler Durden's third alias in order to discredit Conservatism.[/QUOTE]

    Anyone who doesn't know why Americans support Israel (there are many reasons) or asserts that Al Qaeda isn't a threat to us either hates this country or is a complete buffoon.

    Obviously you don't understand the niceties of diplomacy or what B. Hussein Organizer is for and against re: Israel. "Hamas ...has resorted to terror"...like they're basically good guys that dabble in evil to get attention

    I could not possible care less about your effete, insubstantial opinions based on intellectually and emotionally retarded left-wing comedy programs- try joining the adult post-academic world by turning off the boob tube and looking for a job.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=Jungle Shift Jet;4034137]nothing like an Israel thread to draw out all the anti-Semites on the left and right-the morally bankrupt intersection of Liberal Street and Libertarian Avenue

    no wonder our Muslim in Chief feels emboldened to dictate to Israel what they should do, he's got a lot of support

    why do "we" care about Israel...

    does anyone really have to ask this question?

    "al Q" is no threat...not really...

    only the biggest dopes in America would assert this...if it was no threat there was no need to use EIT-acquired info to plug OBL

    allegedly educated professional yet obviously disturbed people here repeatedly defending Islamic sociopathy in the name of what, exactly?[/QUOTE]

    LOL, my God you are dumb. No one is defending Al Qaeda.

    This is exactly what I'm talking about. You can't take an opinion on Israel without being called an Anti-Semite or pro-terrorism. I guess that's just easier than actually thinking about an issue or learning a little about it.

    Accusations like this expose you (even more so than your usual backwards opinions) about how ****ing ignorant you truly are. One of the only drawbacks I know of our free society is that people like you actually vote. I really hope you don't have children or ever do. It would just be irresponsible.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=Jungle Shift Jet;4034154]Anyone who doesn't know why Americans support Israel (there are many reasons) or asserts that Al Qaeda isn't a threat to us either hates this country or is a complete buffoon.

    Obviously you don't understand the niceties of diplomacy or what B. Hussein Organizer is for and against re: Israel. "Hamas ...has resorted to terror"...like they're basically good guys that dabble in evil to get attention

    I could not possible care less about your effete, insubstantial opinions based on intellectually and emotionally retarded left-wing comedy programs- try joining the adult post-academic world by turning off the boob tube and looking for a job.[/QUOTE]

    LOL.

    Have a drink dude.

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4034159]LOL, my God you are dumb. No one is defending Al Qaeda.

    This is exactly what I'm talking about. You can't take an opinion on Israel without being called an Anti-Semite or pro-terrorism. I guess that's just easier than actually thinking about an issue or learning a little about it.

    Accusations like this expose you (even more so than your usual backwards opinions) about how ****ing ignorant you truly are. One of the only drawbacks I know of our free society is that people like you actually vote. I really hope you don't have children or ever do. It would just be irresponsible.[/QUOTE]

    Ease back with the personal attack, RonPaulStiltskin fanboy freak. You know and stand for nothing, 9000 posts and not an intelligent one yet.

    Stop acting like a Europu$$y who calculates everything in terms of money or their degree of fear of Islamo-kookdom/need for ME oil.

    I knew immediately when my workplace was destroyed in front of my eyes on 9/11 I would still have to put up with apologists for Islamo-insanity for the rest of my life...there you go again

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=Jungle Shift Jet;4034154]Anyone who doesn't know why Americans support Israel (there are many reasons) or asserts that Al Qaeda isn't a threat to us either hates this country or is a complete buffoon.

    Obviously you don't understand the niceties of diplomacy or what B. Hussein Organizer is for and against re: Israel. "Hamas ...has resorted to terror"...like they're basically good guys that dabble in evil to get attention

    I could not possible care less about your effete, insubstantial opinions based on intellectually and emotionally retarded left-wing comedy programs- try joining the adult post-academic world by turning off the boob tube and looking for a job.[/QUOTE]

    You are the least objective and most emotional poster on this board.

    Just read your own words again:

    [QUOTE]Obviously you don't understand the niceties of diplomacy or what B. Hussein Organizer is for and against re: Israel. "Hamas ...has resorted to terror"...like they're basically good guys that dabble in evil to get attention[/QUOTE]

    That's neither true nor rational.

    You're either an act, an alias for DrunkKidCatholic or a raging agoraphobic menopausal beast of an old woman.
    :winksmile

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=Jungle Shift Jet;4034184]Ease back with the personal attack, RonPaulStiltskin fanboy freak. You know and stand for nothing, 9000 posts and not an intelligent one yet.

    Stop acting like a Europu$$y who calculates everything in terms of money or their degree of fear of Islamo-kookdom/need for ME oil.

    I knew immediately when my workplace was destroyed in front of my eyes on 9/11 I would still have to put up with apologists for Islamo-insanity for the rest of my life...there you go again[/QUOTE]

    You are as much an extremist as the radical Muslim terrorists. Same level of insanity, just in a different direction on the political spectrum.

    I will pray for you.

  11. #51
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4034188]You are as much an extremist as the radical Muslim terrorists. Same level of insanity, just in a different direction on the political spectrum.

    I will pray for you.[/QUOTE]

    Blow your Islamic prayers out your a$$, fanboy.

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4034185]You are the least objective and most emotional poster on this board.

    Just read your own words again:



    That's neither true nor rational.

    You're either an act, an alias for DrunkKidCatholic or a raging agoraphobic menopausal beast of an old woman.
    :winksmile[/QUOTE]


    And you're an inconsequential cipher of an unemployed nobody with lots of time to b1tch but never actually refute anything :winksmile

    All one needs to do is merely quote B. Community Organizer's pathetic words re Hamas and all the prepubescent emo kids emerge from their closets to parse their hero's words..no surprise there.

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4034093]And Israel is doing what to help us eliminate the enemies on our own soil? That are here because of our alliance with them?[/QUOTE]

    On point 1 I already answered you and of course you ignored it. Who do you think has the worlds best anti-terror protocol? Who do you think we collaborated with when we needed to change ours? Who do you think is providing us with Intel every day?

    On point two the reason we were attacked according to Osama was the permanent presence of Infidel’s in Arabia. We have supported Israel for years but it was apparently US troops on the holy Islamic military basses in Saudi Arabia that was the reason for the attack.

    I no doubt would like to remove the offending infidels but unfortunately I have to heat my house in the winter and drive my car to the market on occasion, I also might want to visit historic ruins in Arabia at some point so I suspect infidels in Arabia is going to be an ongoing problem regardless of our relationship or lack thereof with Israel. Who knows I might want to go to Arabia and stop in Israel for a couple of days just so I can have a short respite from being an infidel?

    The Israeli support is a throw in line by every Arab terrorist because it gives them some traction with mainstream media around the world. Hating on Israel is something even an infidel can relate to.

    I get it, supporting Jews when we're at war with Muslims is asking for it. All we really have to do is throw Israel under the bus, institute sharia law and bow to Mecca twice a day and I'm sure this entire misunderstanding will go away.

    We minded our own business when Japan and Germany were raping the world and who would have thunk it, the Japs sneak attacked us anyway. There is something between being the policeman of the world and sticking your head up your ass and pretending the real world doesn't exist.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 05-22-2011 at 12:13 PM.

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4034092]African genocide is a completely different topic[/QUOTE]

    No coralation between the spread of Mosque's and madrasas funded by Arab States with the increasing death count?

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4034141]the 1967 outrage is the new individual mandate

    an idea the republicans were for... until Obama adopted it...[/QUOTE]

    Bit, I'm ignoring the jetpotato's postings because i recognize a moron when i see one. You are smarter than that. The main issue with what Obama stated is that it redraws the starting point to the negotiation. It is understood that 1967 lines are a loose starting point to there a future Arab Palestinian state might be based. To concede that as a starting point is a stretch and something that no US leader has ever stated. If you understand the conflict you would understand that alongside that statement Obama could have said that Palestinians will need to give up their demands for a right of return. This is and has consistently been the main obstacle to peace. To put this on the shoulders of the israelis without calling out the Pali Arabs on their falacy is one sided and not helpful to anyone.

    Netanyahu said it perfectly in his discussion with Obama. 1948 caused a major refugee crisis. equal numbers of Jewish and Pali refugees were displaced. The Jewish Refugees from Arab countries were absorbed into Israel. The Arab refugees were not absorbed in to the countries they fled to. Now their grandchildren continue to sit in 70 year old refugee camps waiting for a fictional return that will absolutely never happen.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4034360]Bit, I'm ignoring the jetpotato's postings because i recognize a moron when i see one. You are smarter than that. The main issue with what Obama stated is that it redraws the starting point to the negotiation. It is understood that 1967 lines are a loose starting point to there a future Arab Palestinian state might be based. To concede that as a starting point is a stretch and something that no US leader has ever stated. If you understand the conflict you would understand that alongside that statement Obama could have said that Palestinians will need to give up their demands for a right of return. This is and has consistently been the main obstacle to peace. To put this on the shoulders of the israelis without calling out the Pali Arabs on their falacy is one sided and not helpful to anyone.

    Netanyahu said it perfectly in his discussion with Obama. 1948 caused a major refugee crisis. equal numbers of Jewish and Pali refugees were displaced. The Jewish Refugees from Arab countries were absorbed into Israel. The Arab refugees were not absorbed in to the countries they fled to. Now their grandchildren continue to sit in 70 year old refugee camps waiting for a fictional return that will absolutely never happen.[/QUOTE]

    Obama called out the Arabs called the 67 lines with land swaps which everyone knows isn't the 67 lines. Everyone knows the right of return isn't at issue. Obama speech regardless of the timeing restated US policy under several Presidents. He rightly sees the Arab spring as a threat to not getting things restarted quickly. The future of the region is no longer stable the peace talks have stalled and Obama has just restated the US position. Nothing really new in his comments or radical.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4034539]Obama called out the Arabs called the 67 lines with land swaps which everyone knows isn't the 67 lines. Everyone knows the right of return isn't at issue. Obama speech regardless of the timeing restated US policy under several Presidents. He rightly sees the Arab spring as a threat to not getting things restarted quickly. The future of the region is no longer stable the peace talks have stalled and Obama has just restated the US position. Nothing really new in his comments or radical.[/QUOTE]

    When you say everyone knows the right of return is not an issue you are speaking to the rational and level headed among us. The Arabs in the refugee camps really think it will happen. This is a MAJOR issue in negotiations. The Palestinian Arab leadership uses the issue to give themselves plausible reasoning for a continued struggle. Even if there was a complete signed peace deal they would use the issue to justify future terror activity.

    Here is a question for anyone out there. The international community consistently blames Israel for lack of progress on peace deals. I can name numerous concessions given by the Israelis. The Palis were given complete autonomy in gaza. Autonomy over 97% of the east bank. An armed security force. Tax revenues etc. Can anyone here name a single concession given by the Palestinians in return?

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4034593]When you say everyone knows the right of return is not an issue you are speaking to the rational and level headed among us. The Arabs in the refugee camps really think it will happen. This is a MAJOR issue in negotiations. The Palestinian Arab leadership uses the issue to give themselves plausible reasoning for a continued struggle. Even if there was a complete signed peace deal they would use the issue to justify future terror activity.

    Here is a question for anyone out there. The international community consistently blames Israel for lack of progress on peace deals. I can name numerous concessions given by the Israelis. The Palis were given complete autonomy in gaza. Autonomy over 97% of the east bank. An armed security force. Tax revenues etc. Can anyone here name a single concession given by the Palestinians in return?[/QUOTE]

    What concessions do you want them to give? They have been living in occupation for 40 years and have seen settlement after settlement intruding on their lands for years with no end in sight.

    In reality Isreal has increased their push onto lands that isn't theirs and continue a brutal occupation. The Israeli's continue to gobble up land to strengthen their bargaining position only to call their willingness to bargain that land back a concession.

    There is no carrot and stick approach, it's all stick on both sides. At least Obama has called out both sides for their failure.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 05-23-2011 at 10:23 AM.

  19. #59
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4034617]What concessions do you want them to give? They have been living in occupation for 40 years and have seen settlement after settlement intruding on their lands for years with no end in sight.

    In reality Isreal has increased their push onto lands that isn't theirs and continue a brutal occupation. The Israeli's continue to gobble up land to strengthen their bargaining position only to call their willingness to bargain that land back a concession.

    There is no carrot and stick approach, it's all stick on both sides. At least Obama has called out both sides for their failure.[/QUOTE]

    Well for starters the idea that the part of Jordan that Israel captured while defending herself from destruction during the 6 day way is "Palestinian Land" is a bit of a stretch. Until 1967 the West Bank was part of Jordan and Gaza was part of Egypt. The Israelis over the past 20 years (through agreements at Camp David) have given full autonomy to the Arabs living in the west bank and Gaza. In return the Arabs were supposed to cease incitement and keep law and order. The reaction from the Arabs has always been increased violence and incitement.

    In Gaza the Arabs have 100% autonomy. They had an opportunity to create the new Hong Kong. When Israel withdrew from the area and pulled out their settlements the Arabs there (i refer to them as Arabs rather than palestinian because they are actually Egyptian) used the opportunity to load up on rockets and start a barrage in to Israel. Of course seeing that the Arabs there used their freedom and autonomy to launch a war against Israeli civilians the Israeli Govt issued a blockade on the area designed to slow the flow of weapons there. This is the blockade that today draws so much ire from the "international community". Here we have a clear case of the Israeli Govt giving complete autonomy to the Arabs and getting worse than nothing in return.

    How about this for an exchange. Israel will stop all settlement construction if the PA cedes the right of return to Israel proper for their "refugees".

  20. #60
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4034906]Well for starters the idea that the part of Jordan that Israel captured while defending herself from destruction during the 6 day way is "Palestinian Land" is a bit of a stretch. Until 1967 the West Bank was part of Jordan and Gaza was part of Egypt. The Israelis over the past 20 years (through agreements at Camp David) have given full autonomy to the Arabs living in the west bank and Gaza. In return the Arabs were supposed to cease incitement and keep law and order. The reaction from the Arabs has always been increased violence and incitement.

    In Gaza the Arabs have 100% autonomy. They had an opportunity to create the new Hong Kong. When Israel withdrew from the area and pulled out their settlements the Arabs there (i refer to them as Arabs rather than palestinian because they are actually Egyptian) used the opportunity to load up on rockets and start a barrage in to Israel. Of course seeing that the Arabs there used their freedom and autonomy to launch a war against Israeli civilians the Israeli Govt issued a blockade on the area designed to slow the flow of weapons there. This is the blockade that today draws so much ire from the "international community". Here we have a clear case of the Israeli Govt giving complete autonomy to the Arabs and getting worse than nothing in return.

    How about this for an exchange. Israel will stop all settlement construction if the PA cedes the right of return to Israel proper for their "refugees".[/QUOTE]

    Why should they concede right of return when Israel keeps building and Palestinians are defacto ceding land through settlements? Shouldn’t they be able to have East Jerusalem as part of the 2 state solution?

    As far as autonomy? Who controls access to water, air space and the sea? Israel does. There is no real autonomy.

    Reality is I don’t think either side is invested in a real peace anymore. The Palestinians don’t want to cede their rights and Israel has no intention of giving back land supporting a continuous state with water rights and a dual capital in Jerusalem.

    It is what it is I will always support Israel, criticize it's expansion and cruelty, and recognize it as part of the burden of being surrounded by enemies. Unfortunately the US and the rest of the world has competing interests in the region and regardless of whether you or I support Israel the US may not always support Israel particularly if they are viewed as South Africa was by the world community.

    I have no doubt they will survive with a more limited US role but you can already see the changes in Israel from an idealistic mostly secular Jewish State to an armed camp with a bleak future.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 05-23-2011 at 03:42 PM.

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