The Constitution prohibits it but doesn't define it. Does that mean anything goes or does that mean the Courts who the Constitution authorizes to resolve disputes that come before it under a Constitutional question have the duty to do just that?
It (in general terms) bars C&U, but it does not define it, the Court clearly does and has, so the Court precedent and this court ruling are what counts in discussion of this issue, not the Constitution, Bit's opinion or my own opinions.
Opinion on what? I have no knowledge of California Penal conditions, and if they rise to the level of C&U or not. As such, I have no opinion to provide. Hence why my reply is as specific as it was to Bitonti.I'm actually interested in your opinion.
This cannot possibly be a serious question. "Anything goes"? I cannot fathom what would cause you to ask me this question, in this odd way, based on my reply to Bit? Of coure the Court has the authority to decide the case and the definition, as it sees fit.The Constitution prohibits it but doesn't define it. Does that mean anything goes or does that mean the Courts who the Constitution authorizes to resolve disputes that come before it under a Constitutional question have the duty to do just that?
I honestly think you have me mistaken for someone else, I'm really not that easily trolled.
Don't be fooled if they announce they'll only release non violent offenders. They'll release a guy in at the time for car theft who has been locked up 20 times in the past for violent crimes.
So one of the highest taxed states fails to maintain its basic obligations. Keeping the criminals locked up.
Coming up short by a whopping one third.
Let's see some ideas government should be providing besides basic housing.....
creating a better system
Inmate should be a workforce..... producing their own uniforms food and shelter.etc.
those that participate and behave get much better benefits. Those that don't get less or no benefits.
Jails should also be one of the most segregated places in the US. To prevent racism and hatred from manifesting itself.
Other systems should already be in place to keep staff away from the most violent criminal and insane minds..
Governments across the US spent money in other places are in debt and continue to be a major failure in providing the citizens basic needs. Jail houses and researching better methods in running them.
Staff are responsible for the care, custody and control of inmates and prisoners. "Keeping them away" from violent or insane prisoners will not permit staff to fulfill that edict. The prisoner is placed in the housing appropriate to them. If they are violent, then they may be placed in individual cells where their contact is minimized and they will be required to wear locking devices or other security paraphernalia that will lessen their capabilities for committing violence. Same goes for inmates in mental health settings.
I would prefer to see the State do a top-down review of spending, and do a better job of prioritization, with basic core Govt. services being fully funded first, and tertiary/optional spending being terminated until such a point that core services are fully funded first.
I would also think a review of sentencing guidelines would be appropriate, to ensure that the "punishment fits the crime". In the zeal of political conveneicne, many laws exist that were popular with the voters, but unrealistic and overly harsh for the actual crimes committed. Drug Laws (posession/use only, no violence) being foremost of course, but there are many others as well. A full audit of the guidelines could also serve to reduce population of criminals who could best be punished through other less costly means, or have their punishments simply be reduced to be more in line with the actual crime they committed.
As Bit likes to tell me, neither of these hopes are remotely realistic.
this is a state that just opened 1 billion dollar high school!
a state and cities that grossly overpaid their employees.. San Diego has been paying life guards up to $150,000 in pay and benefits.
How can you be one of the highest taxed states and not provide adequate prison space.
The government and its legislators are incompetent. I'm not saying that the workers are.
Segregation exists now in California prisons where racial issues are a major problem.
They do not put blacks whites and Hispanics in the same cells. They segregate already.
With such circumstances it is allowed.
Keeping guards away from some of the prisoners is simply solved with cameras videos and audio. Stop it with the ideas we can do no better with no changes..
They used to be that way with New York police for years. We can do no better but crime was horrible high for 50 years. Now it's one of the best city police in the world.
Mayor Giulliana embraced changes not a wee can do no better attitude..
How any rational person could conclude that a fulltime lifeguard should earn anywhere near 6 figures is tantamount to the acceptance of high tax, high spend, get on the government payroll mentality that has put us in the position we are in today.
In 1985 ...Less than 85 Fortune 100 companies had true pension plans. Today, that number is less than 15. But let's make a lifeguard job a GOLD position.
Last edited by WestCoastOffensive; 05-25-2011 at 02:19 PM.
I agree about Giuliani, which is why I mentioned what Kerik did at DOC under his guidance. My point was that all of the problems you mentioned in CA have already been hashed out in NYC, over a decade ago. The decrease in the amount of jail violence from then to now was so monumental that no one could have predicted it in even a best-case scenario. For instance, within 5 years the amount of slashings went from an average of ~100 per month to 228 for the entire year. That's amazing. I think it dipped even lower than that, approaching the 100s. Naturally, assaults on staff went down as well. So, I am very familiar with how much better things can get, I was a part of making it happen.Originally Posted by cedk;4036197[B
The classification system works. Segregation doesn't curb violence, re-arrest does. Placating racial problems through appeasement doesn't work, targeting and confronting the gangs does. Increased searches work, cameras do not. To that point, the increase in cameras (thanks Horn & Schriro) have actually resulted in an uptick in assaults on staff. Inmates simply duff an CO and play the wall right away, thereby making any sort of action on the part of the officer to appear retaliatory. The use of force directive from hell that existed before the big turnaround allowed for this behavior. Funny how things come back around...
Better has already been done. Soon you will start to see a slide. Then we will have to work twice as hard to re-gain what we already had and lost.