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  1. #1

    NY-26

    Why is there no thread on NY - 26?

    The republican health care plan failed miserably as they lost a long held seat.

    The democrats will be on offense from here till 2012

  2. #2
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    GOP Blames Scare Tactics for New York Loss .

    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4036435]Why is there no thread on NY - 26?

    The republican health care plan failed miserably as they lost a long held seat.

    The democrats will be on offense from here till 2012[/QUOTE]



    True enough



    [URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304066504576345433136872502.html?mod=WSJ_newsreel_us"]online.wsj.com[/URL]

    [QUOTE]
    GOP Blames Scare Tactics for New York Loss.


    WASHINGTON—Republican leaders, faced with the unexpected loss of a congressional seat in New York, said Wednesday that a GOP proposal to overhaul Medicare played a role in the election upset Tuesday.

    But they accused Democrats of deploying scare tactics aimed at the Medicare plan that could sabotage bipartisan efforts to rein in federal spending and debt this year.

    Democrat Kathy Hochul won the House seat from western New York, in a Republican-dominated district, after a campaign in which she consistently attacked the GOP Medicare plan.

    She carried 47% of the vote, to 43% for Republican Jane Corwin and 9% for a third-party candidate.

    In November, a Republican won the same House seat with 68% of the vote.

    The victory emboldened Democrats on Wednesday to stand firm against changes in the program in coming budget talks. It is also solidifying their strategy of making their stance on Medicare a centerpiece of the party's 2012 campaign message.

    Republicans tried to minimize the significance of the issue in the special election, but they acknowledged that the results signaled that they would have to do a better job of explaining their Medicare proposal to voters—or else change the subject.

    "It can be a powerful political weapon," Rep. Paul Ryan (R.,Wis.), said in an interview on MSNBC Wednesday, citing ads attacking the plan he authored. "People in the Republican Party are nervous because of these kinds of ads."

    At a later appearance Wednesday, Mr. Ryan said Democrats were "shamelessly demagoguing and distorting" his plan. "We call it 'Mediscare.' "

    He said the result could be "political paralysis'' as the two parties try to negotiate measures to reduce federal budget deficits. "That means nothing gets done. That means we go further down the path to debt," he said.

    Under Mr. Ryan's plan, which the House approved last month on a near party-line vote, Medicare would no longer be a fee-for-service program. Instead future retirees would choose from a menu of private insurance plans, which would be subsidized by the government. People now age 55 and older would not be affected.

    The special election in the New York district, between Rochester and Buffalo, was watched nationally because Democrats had framed it as a referendum on the Medicare overhaul.

    Ms. Corwin, the GOP candidate, had endorsed the plan, drawing attacks from Ms. Hochul and from Democrats around the country.

    "Medicare is huge," said Carol Kociela, a Democrat and retired Amherst, N.Y., bank executive who voted for Ms. Hochul. "When that whole issue started playing on the ads, you could tell immediately that people were very concerned and seriously considering whether or not they could vote for a conservative."

    The results emboldened Democrats who have been arguing that their party should give no ground to the GOP on cutting Medicare in negotiations over a deficit-reduction package. Members of both parties say a spending-cut package is needed in order to build support in Congress for raising the nation's borrowing limit, a step the Treasury says must be done by Aug. 2 to avoid default.

    Sen. Patty Murray (D., Wash.) chairwoman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, said the New York results bolstered her plans to make the Medicare debate central to Senate races across the country in 2012.

    "The results provide clear evidence that Democratic senators and Senate candidates will be able to play offense across the country by remaining focused on the Republican effort to end Medicare," said Ms. Murray.

    Mr. Ryan, the House Budget Committee chairman, said at a conference on fiscal issues Wednesday that Republicans were holding back on a proposal to overhaul Social Security because they feared Democrats would use it to stir voter anger.

    "We believe that if we put a Social Security plan out there, it would be too easy for Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi to demagogue it,'' he said, referring to the Senate and House Democratic leaders.

    In an earlier speech at that conference, former President Bill Clinton warned Democrats against standing pat and fighting proposals to rein in Medicare costs.

    "You should draw the conclusion that people made the judgment that the proposal in the Republican budget is not the right one," he said. "But I'm afraid that Democrats will draw the conclusion that because Congressman Ryan's proposal is not the best one, we shouldn't do anything. I completely disagree with that."

    Special elections sometimes foreshadow the results of the next general election. But just as often, they end up being completely unrelated to what's to come. Shortly before the 2010 election, for example, Democrats won a tough special election in Pennsylvania, only to lose dozens of House seats that year.

    Rep. Pete Sessions (R., Texas), who is spearheading the Republican House campaigns, said Tuesday: "Obviously, each side would rather win a special election than lose, but to predict the future based on the results of this unusual race is naive and risky."

    The election results come at time when some House Republicans have been trying to draw attention to their efforts to spur economic growth and stimulate job creation.

    House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R., Va.), who has given a series of speeches to argue that the GOP agenda is broader than cutting government spending, on Thursday will propose a package of job-creation measures that will include ideas about overhauling the tax code and curbing regulation.

    [/QUOTE]

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4036435][B]Why is there no thread on NY - 26[/B]?

    The republican health care plan failed miserably as they lost a long held seat.

    The democrats will be on offense from here till 2012[/QUOTE]

    You will start seeing some responses from the conservatives here at around 10pm. After they check in......

    [url]http://www.foxnews.com/fnctv/index.html[/url]

  4. #4
    why kick a party when it's down? no one is scared of the vocal 40% perma-minority that is the GOP party. and the demographics get worse for them every day. W. Bush really did ruin the GOP.

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4036593]why kick a party when it's down? no one is scared of the vocal 40% perma-minority that is the GOP party. and the demographics get worse for them every day. W. Bush really did ruin the GOP.[/QUOTE]

    Think harder, Bit. Obama 2008 "Change" voters were fooled. When Obama wins re-election it will be the Wall Street Republicans who will win the most.

    And you "Hope" voters won't win anything.

    Cheers! :chug_it:

    [url]http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-24/opinion/carville.obama.mideast_1_president-barack-obama-republican-presidential-candidate-eisenhower-republican?_s=PM:OPINION[/url]

    [SIZE="4"][B]Obama is looking like a 2008 Republican[/B][/SIZE]

    May 24, 2011|By James Carville, CNN Contributor

    Conservatives howled over Obama's Mideast plan, but that plan was once lauded by George W. Bush and Tom DeLay.

    As I sat watching the hysterical and apocalyptic reaction to President Barack Obama's speech addressing the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, in which he endorsed a position that was previously advocated by George W. Bush, Tom DeLay, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, opposition leader Tzipi Livni and even Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu, it got me thinking about the other vicious attacks on the president's previous policies.

    Let's start with the president's decision to continue George W. Bush's TARP -- the successful program that averted a financial collapse and bailed out the automotive industry.

    I've always wondered why Bush didn't try to lay some claim to the successful outcome of that situation instead of expecting to be credited with the downfall of Osama bin Laden, which he actually had very little to do with.

    The fact that Obama promoted the individual mandate health-care plan previously endorsed by Newt Gingrich, Jon Huntsman, Mitt Romney and Tim Pawlenty had the GOP up in arms.

    But boy, what really got the boys on Fox News, talk radio and the Tea Party gassed up was when Obama praised Pawlenty, McCain and Romney's cap-and-trade carbon-control plan. And I almost forgot his stimulus program was attacked by John Huntsman for not being large enough.

    But then again, it's hard to to top the doomsday predictions that resulted when the chairman of the Federal Reserve (who, by the way, was appointed by George W. Bush) instituted a program that was advocated by Ronald Reagan's favorite economist, the late Milton Friedman, who is universally acknowledged to be the most influential conservative economist of the 20th century.

    Of course, he sure got an earful about taking Newt's advice and intervening in Libya, not to mention the stir he caused by just following George W. Bush's lead in sending troops to Afghanistan.

    In 1992, Bill Clinton famously proclaimed himself to be an Eisenhower Republican. By that measure, I'd say President Obama is a pre-2008 John McCain Republican.

    But this much is sure: The policies of the eventual Republican nominee, that is, anybody left running for it by the time of the vote, will be right in line with those of Sarah Palin. It's pretty remarkable that the next election is going to boil down to a competition between the 2008 Republican presidential candidate and his vice presidential nominee.

    It's not that Obama is a socialist born somewhere other than Hawaii, or that he possesses a Kenyan anti-colonial mentality -- but that [B]some Republican needs to stand up and say, with some legitimacy, that Obama is taking all of the GOP's ideas.[/B]

    The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of James Carville.

    :jets17

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4036593]W. Bush really did ruin the GOP.[/QUOTE]

    Not really... His counterpart is continuing/implementing similar foreign/domestic policies...

    Obama is Bush v2 in his actions. He happens to soften the blows by lying to you in most every speech but that's okay. You love Bush v2.

    And we love larfing at you for loving him.

    :thumbup:

  7. #7
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    The phony Tea Party candidate siphoned off enough conservative votes to hand that election to the dems. I suspect we'll see more of his kind (long-time dems who suddenly run as newly conservative "Tea party" candidates with no chance of winning, but every chance of fooling 10-15% of the GOP voters).

    As for the mediscare, anyone paying attention knows that Obamacare will cap medicare beginning in 2014 -- so it's basically the same "problem" the seniors have with Ryan's plan. Once again, it's all about who gets their message (or in some cases BS) out there the best.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=shakin318;4036679]The phony Tea Party candidate siphoned off enough conservative votes to hand that election to the dems. I suspect we'll see more of his kind (long-time dems who suddenly run as newly conservative "Tea party" candidates with no chance of winning, but every chance of fooling 10-15% of the GOP voters).

    [/QUOTE]
    this.

    fortunately now that this strategy has been exposed something can be done about it going forward

  9. #9
    to give my previous statement a little color... here's how Bush ruined the GOP

    his Presidency, which was considered a failure on many levels, made the GOP abandon the middle ground. The base was incensed at his wild spending and giveaways like Medicare Part D... and wanted to "purify" their party. I've heard many on this forum say "he wasn't a real Republican" or stuff to that effect. And maybe that's true.

    what was the reaction? The tea party. don't get me wrong, the tea party was successful in 2010 and won some local races.

    but in 2012, on a national level, the GOP has a party that is too far right to win the Presidency.

    Ideological purity will play well in the primaries but this medicare fight is just one of many situations where the base's need to cut spending conflicts with the country's enjoyment of spending. You can dispute this but the proof is in the pudding. every GOP candidate is stuck between the deficit hawk base and the more moderate middle. neither base is not big enough to win a general election by itself.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;4036670]Not really... His counterpart is continuing/implementing similar foreign/domestic policies...

    Obama is Bush v2 in his actions. He happens to soften the blows by lying to you in most every speech but that's okay. You love Bush v2.

    And we love larfing at you for loving him.

    :thumbup:[/QUOTE]

    If this were true, i'd admit it. Bush v2 maybe in a foreign policy sense. but Bush would never enact all the domestic legislation Obama has enacted. healthcare reform, the consumer protections, the EPA stuff, it's classic liberalism. And unlike Bush, Obama actually got OBL.

  11. #11
    Much of Obama's domestic changes are very socialist. The federal government is involved in far too many things.
    That said, Paul Ryan is an idiot. His plan was total nonsense. Medicare & Social Security can be tweeked but not cut out. Raise the age to 70 for both. People are living far longer. The problem is not insurance - it's what health care providers charge. In my area, an MRI (2 views) cost $4,200 at a hospital. The same at an independant imaging center is $910. Gougers.
    Taxes need to be raised, not lowered. And for everyone. 45%+ pay no federal taxes.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4036435]Why is there no thread on NY - 26?

    The republican health care plan failed miserably as they lost a long held seat.

    The democrats will be on offense from here till 2012[/QUOTE]

    From what I've read, the Dem kept saying "Ryan's idea will kill Medicare as we know it."

    A complete lie.

    What she didn't say was that Obamacare has already killed it as we know it.

    So Democrats lying to the electorate? Not news.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=shakin318;4036679]The phony Tea Party candidate siphoned off enough conservative votes to hand that election to the dems. I suspect we'll see more of his kind (long-time dems who suddenly run as newly conservative "Tea party" candidates with no chance of winning, but every chance of fooling 10-15% of the GOP voters).

    As for the mediscare, anyone paying attention knows that Obamacare will cap medicare beginning in 2014 -- so it's basically the same "problem" the seniors have with Ryan's plan. Once again, it's all about who gets their message (or in some cases BS) out there the best.[/QUOTE]

    +1

    The idea this was over the Ryan Medicare Plan is a propaganda joke.

    This was due to a RINO running a bad campaign, and a lifelong Democrat (and three time failed Democrat Candidate) running as a Tea Party Candidate, and snagging 9%, more than enough to sway the election results.

    It's ok, right now somehwere the (R) are planning to run-former Republican "Social Democrats", "Socialist Party", "Green Party" and "Universal Healthcare & Choice Party" candidates in every election going forward. ;)

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4036829]If this were true, i'd admit it. Bush v2 maybe in a foreign policy sense. but Bush would never enact all the domestic legislation Obama has enacted. healthcare reform, the consumer protections, the EPA stuff, it's classic liberalism. And unlike Bush, Obama actually got OBL.[/QUOTE]

    Obama scores brownie points for a few liberal policies but the majority simply aren't. There's no denying it.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=quantum;4036842]
    What she didn't say was that Obamacare has already killed it as we know it.
    [/QUOTE]

    people like Obamacare. all those younger than 26 year olds on their parents insurance has been a good thing. puts healthy people into the pool (lowering costs) and covers those who didn't have coverage. If they repealed Obamacare tomorrow there'd be a huge outcry, and it would be the parents of college aged or older children doing the crying.

    just wait til the real benefits kick in it will be another aspect of American life that everyone but Republicans love. Like Medicare.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;4036849]Obama scores brownie points for a few liberal policies but the majority simply aren't. There's no denying it.[/QUOTE]

    I am denying it. You show me what Conservative policies Obama has enacted. Other than Afghanistan double down and not being able to close Gitmo... I can't think of any.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4036860]I am denying it. You show me what Conservative policies Obama has enacted. Other than Afghanistan double down and not being able to close Gitmo... I can't think of any.[/QUOTE]

    I used the word policies. Probably a terrible word.

    But let's roll with having me not said it.

    Signing statements to circumvent Congress...

    Bush Tax Cut extension

    Exemptions and deductions continue for the same bracket

    Failed transparency in government (God, please don't try to use OBL... He skirted a fargin' HC plan through at midnight...)

    Patriot Act continuing

    No bids continuing

    Ignores Wall Street (ie: Executive bonuses for companies in dire straits)

    Libya

    And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...

    My main point being, he's running the country more like Bush than he is like a Liberal. Healthcare and enviornmental strategy doesn't change that... He talks a huge game to you guys. He doesn't deliver.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;4036872]
    My main point being, he's running the country more like Bush than he is like a Liberal. Healthcare and enviornmental strategy doesn't change that... He talks a huge game to you guys. He doesn't deliver.[/QUOTE]

    I can grant that both of these Presidents are closer to the center than their bases like to admit. But remember alot of what you point out were not campaign promises.

    Obama never promised to end Afghanistan, in fact he sold it as the good war. Obama never promised to end the Patriot Act or enact laws to limit CEO bonuses. Some things like Gitmo closing and the tax cuts I think he broke those promises but campaigning and governing are often different. I don't hold that against him.

    Obama in many ways was an empty vessel and people put their hopes into what they thought he would be... what he is... is a corporate centrist. he pisses off both sides that's a sign of fairness. He never promised to be a progressive.

  19. #19
    Being in the middle is 'progressive' these days:yes:

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4036878]I can grant that both of these Presidents are closer to the center than their bases like to admit. But remember alot of what you point out were not campaign promises.

    Obama never promised to end Afghanistan, in fact he sold it as the good war. Obama never promised to end the Patriot Act or enact laws to limit CEO bonuses. Some things like Gitmo closing and the tax cuts I think he broke those promises but campaigning and governing are often different. I don't hold that against him.

    Obama in many ways was an empty vessel and people put their hopes into what they thought he would be... what he is... is a corporate centrist. he pisses off both sides that's a sign of fairness. He never promised to be a progressive.[/QUOTE]


    More laughs and shovel-ready BS...no need for 0 to promise anything except be the anti-American radical he is

    An empty vessel? :P He was supposed to be so smart and professorial-no to mention clean and articulate :rolleyes:

    ARRA and PPACA are among the most progressive American legislation ever and 0 signed them into law

    B. Hussein Organizer stated he would dump teh Patriot Act...in '03

    [URL]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/did-obama-break-his-campa_b_288112.html[/URL]


    Promises he broke

    [URL]http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/[/URL]


    Et al

    [URL]http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/4701/long-post-complete-list-obama-statement-expiration-dates[/URL]

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