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Thread: Public employee Unions screws Democratic Gov. and the State of CT taxpayers.

  1. #1

    Public employee Unions screws Democratic Gov. and the State of CT taxpayers.

    Democratic Gov. Malloy of CT pushed through a huge tax increase and was trying to get modest Union concessions to close the CT. Budget gap in what he called a shared sacrifice. After getting the tax hikes fully implemented the Union negotiators took half a billion out of the original concession package that was needed and the Union rejected that yesterday.

    The end result is going to be either a cave in by the Gov. or massive layoffs of public employees. Bottom line these employees are overpaid and have too much power. They elected this Gov. who promised a shared sacrifice and that he would maintain their bargaining rights. The Union reaction to this was a big FU to the Gov. and the people of CT. I say F-them. Itís time this conflict of interest was ended before they bankrupt the very fabric of our local and State governments and communities.

    To those good loyal commies who were crying about what was going on in Wisconsin or continuously gripe about Gov. Christie or Cuomo, it's time you realized that the public employee Unions are out of control and have out right screwed over most of the cities and local communities all across this country. The roads suck, the schools suck and they are sucking the life blood out of the very fabric of our communities with their shoddy work and bloated over paid pensions and health benefits.

    To the Sanitation workers who continually dump snow and Ice in front of my driveway and bury my mail box, to the teachers who have failed our students and turned our schools to crap destoying not just our kids future but our property value and to the road crews who are out putting hot patch on potholes that last for a couple of hours instead of fixing them right. Go F yourself.

    [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyregion/connecticuts-budget-plans-are-upended-by-state-workers-vote.html?_r=1&hp[/url]

    [QUOTE]HARTFORD ó Connecticutís state workers, in voting results announced on Friday, rejected a deal meant to produce $1.6 billion in labor savings over two years, blowing a gaping hole in the state budget, raising the likelihood of thousands of layoffs and threatening chaos in a state that has largely avoided the rancorous labor issues seen elsewhere.

    The rejection was an emphatic slap to both the union leadership and Gov. Dannel P. Malloy, a Democrat who was elected in November with enthusiastic support from labor...[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 06-25-2011 at 06:52 AM.

  2. #2
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4052934]Democratic Gov. Malloy of CT pushed through a huge tax increase and was trying to get modest Union concessions to close the CT. Budget gap in what he called a shared sacrifice. After getting the tax hikes fully implemented the Union negotiators took half a billion out of the original concession package that was needed and the Union rejected that yesterday.

    The end result is going to be either a cave in by the Gov. or massive layoffs of public employees. Bottom line these employees are overpaid and have too much power. They elected this Gov. who promised a shared sacrifice and that he would maintain their bargaining rights. The Union reaction to this was a big FU to the Gov. and the people of CT. I say F-them. Itís time this conflict of interest was ended before they bankrupt the very fabric of our local and State governments and communities.

    To those good loyal commies who were crying about what was going on in Wisconsin or continuously gripe about Gov. Christie or Cuomo, it's time you realized that the public employee Unions are out of control and have out right screwed over most of the cities and local communities all across this country. The roads suck, the schools suck and they are sucking the life blood out of the very fabric of our communities with their shoddy work and bloated over paid pensions and health benefits.

    To the Sanitation workers who continually dump snow and Ice in front of my driveway and bury my mail box, to the teachers who have failed our students and turned our schools to crap destoying not just our kids future but our property value and to the road crews who are out putting hot patch on potholes that last for a couple of hours instead of fixing them right. Go F yourself.

    [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyregion/connecticuts-budget-plans-are-upended-by-state-workers-vote.html?_r=1&hp[/url][/QUOTE]

    So myopic on their part. It was nice to see CSEA in NY come to an agreement that helped the state while saving its membership. I'd be willing to do the same, but only with iron-clad guarantees that we wouldn't be raped later for giving concessions.

    'Course, either way we'd still be vilified by the public if the economy continued to do poorly.

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Jetworks;4052987]So myopic on their part. It was nice to see CSEA in NY come to an agreement that helped the state while saving its membership. I'd be willing to do the same, but only with iron-clad guarantees that we wouldn't be raped later for giving concessions.

    'Course, either way we'd still be vilified by the public if the economy continued to do poorly.[/QUOTE]

    Why should these employees get iron clad guarntees? The taxpayers don't have an iron clad guarantee for their jobs, their home values their health insurance premiums. their pensions or their salaries. If times get tougher the Unions employees are going to have to put in again and again just like everyone else. Iron clad guarantees.:rolleyes:
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 06-25-2011 at 11:26 AM.

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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4052989]Why should these employees get iron clad guarntees? The taxpayers don't have an iron clad guarantee for their jobs, their home values their health insurance premiums. their pensions or their salaries. If times get tougher the Unions employees are going to have to put in again and again just like everyone else. Iron clad guarantees.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    This will not solve anything, but here it goes anyway:

    First off, the union employees I am talking about are basically given their raises and increases in benefits through collective bargaining, [I]on contract[/I]. In obtaining these things there are usually concessions involved. It's all very quid pro quo. So, if you are coming to me and asking that I give back something out of some form of civic responsibility, I am going to want to ensure that you aren't going to dip into that well everytime just because you may feel I am a soft touch.

    Secondly, the last time I checked, union employees were taxed at the same rate as this other class of citizen that you exempt them from, the taxpayer. So, their salary is made up of your taxes, then they pay taxes behind those earnings and now you expect them to pony up more because their jobs and pensions are more secure? :rolleyes: And who is this "everyone else"? Are private-sector people ponying up portions of their bonuses for the greater good as well? Or are they laying people off so they can maintain them?

    Talk about predictable. I volunteer to give in to concessions as a public employee, only asking for assurances from the grimy politicos, and that's still not enough. Kidney, maybe?

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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4052934]The end result is going to be either a cave in by the Gov. or massive layoffs of public employees.[/QUOTE]

    Lay them off. Pretty simple. Idiots will realize that some money is better than none.

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4053118]Lay them off. Pretty simple. Idiots will realize that some money is better than none.[/QUOTE]

    The threat is there but the fact is the Gov owes his election and future to the same Unions he's bargaining with. The threat is pretty empty.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=Jetworks;4053025]This will not solve anything, but here it goes anyway:

    First off, the union employees I am talking about are basically given their raises and increases in benefits through collective bargaining, [I]on contract[/I]. In obtaining these things there are usually concessions involved. It's all very quid pro quo. So, if you are coming to me and asking that I give back something out of some form of civic responsibility, I am going to want to ensure that you aren't going to dip into that well everytime just because you may feel I am a soft touch.

    Secondly, the last time I checked, union employees were taxed at the same rate as this other class of citizen that you exempt them from, the taxpayer. So, their salary is made up of your taxes, then they pay taxes behind those earnings and now you expect them to pony up more because their jobs and pensions are more secure? :rolleyes: And who is this "everyone else"? Are private-sector people ponying up portions of their bonuses for the greater good as well? Or are they laying people off so they can maintain them?

    Talk about predictable. I volunteer to give in to concessions as a public employee, only asking for assurances from the grimy politicos, and that's still not enough. Kidney, maybe?[/QUOTE]

    How many of the State pensions are free of State tax. How much feather bedding is in the pensions built up through overtime in the last few years of these pensions.

    Give backs. In the private sector almost every worker has gone from a defined pension to a self directed pension. Almost every worker has had health benifits cut, copays increased and are paying a larger and larger share of the increasing preimiums. That's if they still have a job.

    Collectively bargaining with elected officials who rely on Unions to get them elected is a complete conflict of interest and the public simply can't afford it anymore.

    It ain't the greater good it's economic reality.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 06-25-2011 at 07:45 PM.

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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4053233]How many of the State pensions are free of State tax. How much feather bedding is in the pensions built up through overtime in the last few years of these pensions.

    Give backs. In the private sector almost every worker has gone from a defined pension to a self directed pension. Almost every worker has had health benifits cut, copays increased and are paying a larger and larger share of the increasing preimiums. That's if they still have a job.

    Collectively bargaining with elected officials who rely on Unions to get them elected is a complete conflict of interest and the public simply can't afford it anymore.

    It ain't the greater good it's economic reality.[/QUOTE]

    All public money comes from private business first and foremost and the argument that public employees pay tax too has to be the most under educated statement regarding how public revenue is raised from PRIVATE business FIRST. LAY them off I say...... ;)
    Last edited by southparkcpa; 06-26-2011 at 06:23 PM.

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    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4053468]All public money comes from private business first and foremost and the argument that public employees pay tax too has to be the most under educated statement regarding how public revenue is raised from PRIVATE business FIRST. LAY them off I say...... ;)[/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry, but you're a complete dickhead. Accuse me of ad hominem, report my post, whatever. I offer pragmatic suggestions and you come back with this passive/aggressive tripe. It's rhetoric like yours from politicos that makes getting concessions from unions so cantankerous in the first place. You're another Jeff Pash, basically.

    The private sector is incapable of operating without the support and infrastructure of the public sector. I don't understand how you continually miss that tidbit, but you do.

    Please. go ahead and do these two things since you undervalue them so much:

    -Petition your legislature to do away with collecting taxes from public employees since that revenue stream really doesn't matter as private business pays their salaries in the first place

    -Lobby for lay-offs. But don't be selective and go after the librarians and janitors. Get rid of some of those shiftless firefighters and prison guards.

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    [QUOTE=Jetworks;4053595]I'm sorry, but you're a complete dickhead. Accuse me of ad hominem, report my post, whatever. I offer pragmatic suggestions and you come back with this passive/aggressive tripe. It's rhetoric like yours from politicos that makes getting concessions from unions so cantankerous in the first place. You're another Jeff Pash, basically.

    The private sector is incapable of operating without the support and infrastructure of the public sector. I don't understand how you continually miss that tidbit, but you do.

    Please. go ahead and do these two things since you undervalue them so much:

    -Petition your legislature to do away with collecting taxes from public employees since that revenue stream really doesn't matter as private business pays their salaries in the first place

    -Lobby for lay-offs. But don't be selective and go after the librarians and janitors. Get rid of some of those shiftless firefighters and prison guards.[/QUOTE]

    dude - you gotta admit that its out of control. Look no further than Nassau County cops (and how long it took them to stop a pit bull from terrorizing my block!)

    Where I work is just as bad: overpaid, incompetent dooshes, that can't even be fired for having sex with vendor reps. WTF?

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=Jetworks;4053595]I'm sorry, but you're a complete dickhead. Accuse me of ad hominem, report my post, whatever. I offer pragmatic suggestions and you come back with this passive/aggressive tripe. It's rhetoric like yours from politicos that makes getting concessions from unions so cantankerous in the first place. You're another Jeff Pash, basically.

    The private sector is incapable of operating without the support and infrastructure of the public sector. I don't understand how you continually miss that tidbit, but you do.

    Please. go ahead and do these two things since you undervalue them so much:

    -Petition your legislature to do away with collecting taxes from public employees since that revenue stream really doesn't matter as private business pays their salaries in the first place

    -Lobby for lay-offs. But don't be selective and go after the librarians and janitors. Get rid of some of those shiftless firefighters and prison guards.[/QUOTE]

    If the Unions purged out their own crappy workers and became more like a professional association that develops and increases the standards and quality of work, developed the new techniques to be more efficient instead of protecting the worst of the worst and using strong arm political tactics to guarantee wages, pensions and health benefits, costs would go down, services would be improved and the public would view public employees in an entirely different light.

    The public employee unionís power has been built on political power and conflict of interest rather than high standards and the development of outstanding professional standards.

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    [QUOTE=quantum;4053738]dude - you gotta admit that its out of control. Look no further than Nassau County cops (and how long it took them to stop a pit bull from terrorizing my block!)

    Where I work is just as bad: overpaid, incompetent dooshes, that can't even be fired for having sex with vendor reps. WTF?[/QUOTE]

    Yes, I do see there are things that are bad. The rubber rooms in NYC for bad teachers springs immediately to mind. And I'm not saying there shouldn't be reform, but there is certainly a disproportionate amount of finger-pointing are civil servants. Why not clamor about the continued lack of tort reform, the voluminous amount of "loopholes" in the tax code, or the wink & nod insider trading that isn't insider trading?

    That said, there is a mindset among civil service in NYC that when things were good for the private sector, they suffered. It's not entirely unfounded and it was certainly a purposeful decision on the part of the politicians. And hey, there were lots of improvements made, so everyone did benefit to some degree. But now that everyone is feeling it in the wallet, the last thing a civil servant wants to hear is how great they have it after not having it so great for quite some time. That only results in the apathetic attitudes towards doing your job that you are talking about.

    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4053747]If the Unions purged out their own crappy workers and became more like a professional association that develops and increases the standards and quality of work, developed the new techniques to be more efficient instead of protecting the worst of the worst and using strong arm political tactics to guarantee wages, pensions and health benefits, costs would go down, services would be improved and the public would view public employees in an entirely different light.

    The public employee unionís power has been built on political power and conflict of interest rather than high standards and the development of outstanding professional standards.[/QUOTE]

    The politicians are the people who agreed to the demands of the unions, plain and simple. And I think it is deplorable that some of them did so knowing that crappy employees would become virtually un-fireable. But a union that throws members under the bus will not be a union for long. Would everyone be better off if they stood up and said "this guy is a POS"? Sure. But it still takes a boos to fire or "purge" the guy, not the union.

    The Rudy years kept the civil service unions out of all light in the form of wage freezes and being forced to work without contracts for sometimes years at a time. That's something you would never see in any other union job and I doubt you would see it in the private sector either. The public didn't really seem to mind, as long as their services weren't stopped.

    Like I said, from a civic-responsibility PoV I realize there needs to be changes, but they all shouldn't be coming from the civil servants.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Jetworks;4053826]

    The politicians are the people who agreed to the demands of the unions, plain and simple. And I think it is deplorable that some of them did so knowing that crappy employees would become virtually un-fireable. But a union that throws members under the bus will not be a union for long. Would everyone be better off if they stood up and said "this guy is a POS"? Sure. But it still takes a boos to fire or "purge" the guy, not the union.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's why Public Unions shouldn't be allowed to negiotate contracts with publicly elected officials.

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    [QUOTE=quantum;4053738]dude - you gotta admit that its out of control. Look no further than Nassau County cops (and how long it took them to stop a pit bull from terrorizing my block!)

    Where I work is just as bad: overpaid, incompetent dooshes, that can't even be fired for having sex with vendor reps. WTF?[/QUOTE]

    Honesty.....so refreshing. I worked at your group (unnamed agency) 25 years ago and literally the accounting dept was 200 people. I went to private industry and saw Fortune 500 companies where 100 people did the same amount of work.

    I notice 99 percent of personal attacks to me come from those employed or married to civil service. I do not take it personally.

    I , in fact, back 100 percent , cops and fireman, sherrifs dept and many others here in Charlotte. They are terrific and do a terrific job and are not "polluted" by ridiculous union rules. Public employee unions have put the people's interests out of the equation.

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    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4053868]Honesty.....so refreshing. I worked at your group (unnamed agency) 25 years ago and literally the accounting dept was 200 people. I went to private industry and saw Fortune 500 companies where 100 people did the same amount of work.

    I notice 99 percent of personal attacks to me come from those employed or married to civil service. I do not take it personally.

    I , in fact, back 100 percent , cops and fireman, sherrifs dept and many others here in Charlotte. They are terrific and do a terrific job and are not "polluted" by ridiculous union rules. Public employee unions have put the people's interests out of the equation.[/QUOTE]

    The facts I put forth are as honest as it gets. You just don't want to hear that. Fine, wallow away.

    The personal attacks are the direct result of your facetious, inflammatory and condescending remarks that you spout off ad nauseum on the same subject, civil service employees and their "entitlements", "lack of work ethic" etc. Perhaps you don't realize how often you do it, but it comes across as quite personal, hence my response. Was it mean-spirited and inappropriate? Yes and for that I am sorry, but so to are your comments and "arguments" that you put forth to support your case.

    For someone whose profession largely relies on exploiting the muddled bureaucratic tax code, your indignation comes across as somewhat hollow.

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    The sense of entitlement from some in the public sector here is astounding
    - some remedial instruction is in order here about the source of public sector wages.

    Without private sector funding there is no government, no infrastructure, no nothing.

    Public sector wages are paid from private sector taxes. Any taxes withheld or paid from the public sector are just a re-redistribution of the original private sector takings to some other public sector expense.

    Sure, the public sector does provide services, but in non-competitive situations for non-market rates that far exceed the true cost and value received. It's no favor to me to overpay for sub-par public sector services often delivered with a derisive sneer from my unfriendly neighborhood DMV/Town city county or state department/fill in the blank functionary)

    Absolutely Fire/Police Agency/Responder services are far more specialized and superior quality to what the rest of the public sector delivers. That said, the pension padding by those departments is unconscionable.

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    [QUOTE=Jungle Shift Jet;4054056]The sense of entitlement from some in the public sector here is astounding
    - some remedial instruction is in order here about the source of public sector wages.

    Without private sector funding there is no government, no infrastructure, no nothing.

    Public sector wages are paid from private sector taxes. Any taxes withheld or paid from the public sector are just a re-redistribution of the original private sector takings to some other public sector expense.

    Sure, the public sector does provide services, but in non-competitive situations for non-market rates that far exceed the true cost and value received. It's no favor to me to overpay for sub-par public sector services often delivered with a derisive sneer from my unfriendly neighborhood DMV/Town city county or state department/fill in the blank functionary)

    Absolutely Fire/Police Agency/Responder services are far more specialized and superior quality to what the rest of the public sector delivers. That said, the pension padding by those departments is unconscionable.[/QUOTE]

    [IMG]http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/pjuarez1004/map-Greece.jpg[/IMG]

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4054130][IMG]http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/pjuarez1004/map-Greece.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

    Arthur Andersen

    [IMG]http://money.cnn.com/2002/05/07/news/companies/andersen/andersen_enron.01.jpg[/IMG]

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=cr726;4054133]Arthur Andersen

    [IMG]http://money.cnn.com/2002/05/07/news/companies/andersen/andersen_enron.01.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

    yes and AA went under........ NO BAILOUT! As it should be.

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4054141]yes and AA went under........ NO BAILOUT! As it should be.[/QUOTE]

    AA help Enron take everyone down with them. Congrats!

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