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Thread: War on Drugs?

  1. #1
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    War on Drugs?

    [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]What are your opinions on this article? It is from Reason Magazine which is very libertarian. I am anti-drug, yes I drink occasionally, but have never done an illegal drug, yet I can see the merit of legalization. [/FONT][/COLOR]

    [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Prohibition created a criminal element and boosted the mob and rum runners (my great grandfather was a rum runner and "restaurateur"), they ended prohibition and the violence over alcohol stopped. [/FONT][/COLOR]

    [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Could the same be true of harder drugs? No matter if it is illegal or not people will do drugs, that is a fact. By legalizing it you will remove a large population from the prisons, reduce violence (drug related) and in theory put "safer" drugs on the street.[/FONT][/COLOR]

    [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]The counter arguement is that most people drink and alcoholism is an issue so if it were legal would someone like me that drinks but never so much as took a hit of pot be more inclined to try it?[/FONT][/COLOR]

    [URL]http://reason.com/archives/2011/06/15/the-price-of-prohibition[/URL]
    [QUOTE][URL="http://reason.com/archives/2011/06/15/the-price-of-prohibition"]The Price of Prohibition[/URL]
    [B]Forty years after Nixon declared war on drugs, it's time to give peace a chance.[/B]

    [URL="http://reason.com/people/jacob-sullum"]Jacob Sullum[/URL] | June 15, 2011



    Forty years ago this Friday, President Richard Nixon [URL="http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=3047#axzz1PCJydjl5"]announced[/URL]
    that "public enemy number one in the United States is drug abuse." Declaring that "the problem has assumed the dimensions of a national emergency," he [URL="http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=3048#axzz1PCJydjl5"]asked[/URL] Congress for money to "wage a new, all-out offensive," a crusade he would later [URL="http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=4159#axzz1PCJydjl5"]call[/URL] a "global war on the drug menace."
    The war on drugs ended in May 2009, when President Obama's newly appointed drug czar, Gil Kerlikowske, [URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124233331735120871.html"]said[/URL] he planned to stop calling it that. Or so Kerlikowske claims. "We certainly ended the drug war now almost two years ago," he told Seattle's PBS station last March, "in the first interview that I did." If you watch the exchange
    [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFIdddbgcrU&feature=player_embedded#at=229"]exchange[/URL]
    on YouTube, you can see he said this with a straight face.
    In reality, of course, Richard Nixon did not start the war on drugs, and Barack Obama, who in 2004 called

    [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOobQ3TPhHU&feature=player_embedded#at=14"]called[/URL]

    it "an utter failure," did not end it. The war on drugs will continue as long as the government insists on getting between people and the intoxicants they want. And while it is heartening to hear a growing chorus of prominent critics decry the enormous collateral damage caused by this policy, few seem prepared to give peace a chance by renouncing the use of force to impose arbitrary pharmacological preferences.
    "The global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world," a recent [URL="http://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/Report"]report[/URL] from the Global Commission on Drug Policy concludes. "Political leaders and public figures should have the courage to articulate publicly what many of them acknowledge privately: that the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that repressive strategies will not solve the drug problem, and that the war on drugs has not, and cannot, be won." Each year that we fail to face this reality, the report says, "billions of dollars are wasted on ineffective programs," "millions of citizens are sent to prison unnecessarily," and "hundreds of thousands of people die from preventable overdoses and diseases."
    This strong criticism of the status quo was endorsed by the three former Latin American presidents who organized the commission—Fernando Henrique Cardoso of Brazil, César Gaviria of Colombia, and Ernesto Zedillo of Mexico—and 16 other notable names, including former Secretary of State George Shultz, former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker, Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou, former U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, former NATO Secretary General Javier Solana, Peruvian novelist Mario Vargas Llosa, and Virgin Group founder Richard Branson.
    The alternatives suggested by the commission are less impressive. The report calls for easing up on drug users and low-level participants in the drug trade while cracking down on "violent criminal organizations." But it is prohibition that enriches and empowers such organizations while encouraging them to be violent—a point the commission acknowledges. As a new [URL="http://www.leap.cc/40years/"]report[/URL] from Law Enforcement Against Prohibition notes regarding the escalating violence that has left some 40,000 people dead since Mexican President Felipe Calderon began an anti-drug crackdown in 2006, "this is a cycle that cannot and will not end until prohibition itself ends."
    It is also prohibition that breeds official corruption, makes drug use more dangerous than it would otherwise be, and undermines civil liberties—all problems the commission highlights. Furthermore, a policy of decriminalizing possession while maintaining the bans on production and sale is morally incoherent: If drug use itself is not worthy of punishment, why should people go to prison merely for helping others commit this noncrime?
    In a recent [I]Wall Street Journal[/I] [URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304392704576377514098776094.html"]op-ed piece[/URL], Shultz and Volcker liken the war on drugs to alcohol prohibition, approvingly quote Milton Friedman's argument that "illegality creates obscene profits that finance the murderous tactics of the drug lords" and "leads to the corruption of law enforcement officials," and then recoil in horror from the logical conclusion, saying "we do not support the simple legalization of all drugs." If illegality is the problem, legality is the solution.
    [/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Trades; 06-29-2011 at 08:37 AM.

  2. #2
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    War on drugs is f*cking stupid.

    Alcohol is THE gateway drug...but legal.

    5% of all deaths from diseases of the circulatory system are attributed to alcohol.

    15% of all deaths from diseases of the respiratory system are attributed to alcohol.

    30% of all deaths from accidents caused by fire and flames are attributed to alcohol.

    30% of all accidental drownings are attributed to alcohol.

    30% of all suicides are attributed to alcohol.

    40% of all deaths due to accidental falls are attributed to alcohol.

    45% of all deaths in automobile accidents are attributed to alcohol.

    60% of all homicides are attributed to alcohol.



    Our country is THE most high, most inebriated country in the world. We LOVE drugs.

    Know who wants drugs kept illegal? Prescription drug companies. Don't do your own drugs...do theirs.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4054791]War on drugs is f*cking stupid.

    Alcohol is THE gateway drug...but legal.

    5% of all deaths from diseases of the circulatory system are attributed to alcohol.

    15% of all deaths from diseases of the respiratory system are attributed to alcohol.

    30% of all deaths from accidents caused by fire and flames are attributed to alcohol.

    30% of all accidental drownings are attributed to alcohol.

    30% of all suicides are attributed to alcohol.

    40% of all deaths due to accidental falls are attributed to alcohol.

    45% of all deaths in automobile accidents are attributed to alcohol.

    60% of all homicides are attributed to alcohol.



    Our country is THE most high, most inebriated country in the world. We LOVE drugs.

    Know who wants drugs kept illegal? Prescription drug companies. Don't do your own drugs...do theirs.[/QUOTE]

    Out of curiosity where did you get those statistics and how do you figure that prescription drug companies care about illegal drugs? I have worked for 5 different drug companies and I have never heard that one.

  4. #4
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    This is something I will never understand. How can someone inject a poison into their body knowing its effects?

    [QUOTE]
    [LEFT][COLOR=#000000]The average user of [I]krokodil[/I], a dirty cousin of morphine that is spreading like a virus among Russian youth,[B] does not live longer than two or three years[/B], and the few who manage to quit usually come away disfigured. [/COLOR][/LEFT]

    [LEFT][COLOR=#000000]...[/COLOR][/LEFT]

    [LEFT][COLOR=#000000]As typically happens in Russia, Pavlova began her drug use as a teenager shooting a substance called [I]khanka[/I], a tarlike opiate cooked from poppy bulbs, then graduated to heroin and finally, at the age of 27, switched to [I]krokodil[/I], because it has roughly the same effect as heroin but is at least three times cheaper and extremely easy to make. The active component is codeine, a widely sold over-the-counter painkiller that is not toxic on its own. But to produce [I]krokodil[/I], whose medical name is desomorphine, addicts [B]mix it with ingredients including gasoline, paint thinner, hydrochloric acid, iodine and red phosphorous[/B], which they scrape from the striking pads on matchboxes. In 2010, between a few hundred thousand and a million people, according to various official estimates, were injecting the resulting substance into their veins in Russia, so far the only country in the world to see the drug grow into an epidemic.[/COLOR][/LEFT]


    [LEFT][COLOR=#000000]Read more: [URL]http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2078355,00.html#ixzz1Qfgwb8nB[/URL][/COLOR]

    [/QUOTE]
    [COLOR=#000000]Seriously, someone sat around and said, "You know, I bet if I mix this with gas, paint thinner and acid, I would get a good high"? [/COLOR][/LEFT]

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=Trades;4054795]how do you figure that prescription drug companies care about illegal drugs?[/QUOTE]

    Don't do your own drugs...do theirs. :D

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4054811]Don't do your own drugs...do theirs. :D[/QUOTE]

    That is just nonsense. Are there a lot of street drugs that control allergies, cholesterol or anything else? Why would they be mutually exclusive? Or are you only considering things like hard core pain killers?

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4054791]Know who wants drugs kept illegal? Prescription drug companies. Don't do your own drugs...do theirs.[/QUOTE]

    The only thing dumber than the war on drugs is this massively ignorant comment.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=Trades;4054818]Or are you only considering things like hard core pain killers?[/QUOTE]

    Indeed.

    And hence why they are the largest corporate donators to "Partnership for a Drug Free America".

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4054831]The only thing dumber than the war on drugs is this massively ignorant comment.[/QUOTE]

    I'm with you but someone must think there is a good reason to not legalize drugs because otherwise there wouldn't be an outcry from the talking heads when anyone suggests it.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4054835]Indeed.

    And hence why they are the largest corporate donators to "Partnership for a Drug Free America".[/QUOTE]

    Is this some "High Times" rant? So because drug companies donate to "Partnership for a Drug Free America" and a million other causes you are upset because you can't legally smoke pot?

    Again, for the record, I DEFFINITELY think pot should be legalized or declassified or how ever you want to look at it. Seems like a no brainer (like most pot heads ;)). It would save on prison costs, police costs, clear court time and greatly improve the lives of a lot of pot smokers who are doing it anyway.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=Trades;4054841]Is this some "High Times" rant? So because drug companies donate to "Partnership for a Drug Free America" and a million other causes you are upset because you can't legally smoke pot?

    Again, for the record, I DEFFINITELY think pot should be legalized or declassified or how ever you want to look at it. Seems like a no brainer (like most pot heads ;)). It would save on prison costs, police costs, clear court time and greatly improve the lives of a lot of pot smokers who are doing it anyway.[/QUOTE]

    I'm all for de-criminalization and use myself. But to answer your question, yes, this is a High Times rant. The biggest problem with the legalization movement is that it is often led by paranoid stoners. [I]It's the [B]drug[/B] companies, maaaan[/I]:rolleyes:

    By the way, PDFA's biggest donors are Major League Baseball, Comcast and Heinz.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=Trades;4054837]I'm with you but someone must think there is a good reason to not legalize drugs because otherwise there wouldn't be an outcry from the talking heads when anyone suggests it.[/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMIgT_NGgek[/url]

    :D

  13. #13
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    One more thing: PDFA's primary goal is the prevention and treatment of teen drug abuse. It is not a drug criminalization law lobby. If and when the war on drugs finally ends and drugs are decriminalized, PDFA will continue to have a purpose and exist.

    Lots of companies donate to the cause because its cheap, clean publicity. Whatever your stance on drugs, no one supports teen drug abuse. It's a great cause. And of course drug companies are among them. What better fit for them for publicity could they ask for? "We care about your health".

    Let's move on to something constructive.

  14. #14
    The "War" on Drugs is a Failure (in every measurable way), an affront to personal lberty, and a bad joke.

    It's also a perfect example of why I have so much trouble supporting Social Conservatives. When it comes to social policy, their anti-liberty, anti-freedom, criminalization ethic if offensive, and counter-productive, and in many cases, hypocritical and favoring of the wealthly (who can buy their own prescrition drugs to abuse from their Doctors, which they do in great numbers, but tut tut a litte pot smoking by the poorer classes).

    The War on Drugs also is a big part of our Prison costs and overcrowding problem, making users into criminals, when use was their only "crime".

    Sooner we end this "War", and change our position on Pot (legalize) and the hard drugs (medical treatment for abuse, not prison), the better.

    And if you commit a REAL crime, for drugs or drug money or not, THEN I throw the book at you hard. Smoke Pot all youw ant. Rob Grandma for Pot money, and your ass is grass.

  15. #15
    What does decriminilazation mean? Is the FDA going to test and study what drugs are offered on the market as safe and effective. Will they be over the counter or by prescription?

    Do we want to make all drugs out of the scope of the FDA or just currently illegal drugs?

    It seems to me that we have a number of issues regarding illegal drugs. Distribution and safety being two I haven't heard a good answer to.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4054874]What does decriminilazation mean? Is the FDA going to test and study what drugs are offered on the market as safe and effective. Will they be over the counter or by prescription?

    Do we want to make all drugs out of the scope of the FDA or just currently illegal drugs?

    It seems to me that we have a number of issues regarding illegal drugs. Distribution and safety being two I haven't heard a good answer to.[/QUOTE]

    L.E.A.P. has a sound position on that: [url]http://www.leap.cc/about/leap-statement-of-principles/[/url]

    regulation, age minimums, etc.

    I heard a LEAP rep. give a speech once, in which he stated that "once you decide to prohibit a particular drug, you lose all ability to regulate that drug. The FDA doesn't control the purity of heroin on the street, drug cartels do."

    While I'm not a fan of 'regulation' so to speak, it seems like an appropriate middle ground, far favorable to a system of criminalization.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4054847][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMIgT_NGgek[/url]

    :D[/QUOTE]

    I agree with every word of that.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4054874]What does decriminilazation mean? Is the FDA going to test and study what drugs are offered on the market as safe and effective. Will they be over the counter or by prescription?

    Do we want to make all drugs out of the scope of the FDA or just currently illegal drugs?

    It seems to me that we have a number of issues regarding illegal drugs. Distribution and safety being two I haven't heard a good answer to.[/QUOTE]

    Decriminalization means posession/sales/use in and of itself would not be treated as an illegal act. Same as all the various "suppliments" out there the FDA has nothing to do with, in the most simple terms.

    If a drug (recreational/medical) wanted to go further, then yes, FDA would need involved, and for medical it would have to go through the same tests to prove it's uses/drawbacks/sideeffects. For recreational, it would have to go through whatever FDA stuff Alcohol has to (any?).

    Generally, most folks on my side want Pot fully legal. The other harder drugs, simply decriminalized, and treated as the addition problem they are, not as a criminal offense.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=freestater;4054891]L.E.A.P. has a sound position on that: [url]http://www.leap.cc/about/leap-statement-of-principles/[/url]

    regulation, age minimums, etc.

    I heard a LEAP rep. give a speech once, in which he stated that "once you decide to prohibit a particular drug, you lose all ability to regulate that drug. The FDA doesn't control the purity of heroin on the street, drug cartels do."

    While I'm not a fan of 'regulation' so to speak, it seems like an appropriate middle ground, far favorable to a system of criminalization.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks!

    Tough issue it's clearly costing us a fortune in prisons and other wasted resources. I'm still not clear how to take the distribution out of the hands of violent gangs or what the appropriate regulations should be. It makes sense to me as a first step to stop making criminals out of users.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=freestater;4054891]L.E.A.P. has a sound position on that: [URL]http://www.leap.cc/about/leap-statement-of-principles/[/URL]

    regulation, age minimums, etc.

    I heard a LEAP rep. give a speech once, in which he stated that "once you decide to prohibit a particular drug, you lose all ability to regulate that drug. The FDA doesn't control the purity of heroin on the street, drug cartels do."

    While I'm not a fan of 'regulation' so to speak, it seems like an appropriate middle ground, far favorable to a system of criminalization.[/QUOTE]

    Sounds interesting and would have to be cheaper than the current system.

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