Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 146

Thread: Oslo Bombing

  1. #41
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Staten Island
    Posts
    9,095
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4066323]i can't speak for all liberals but I stayed out of this thread... until now

    it's been established this guy was a Christian extremist

    can we stop with the idea that Islam is somehow more dangerous than Christianity? it's not proven by centuries of history and it's not proven in Oslo. it's a flat out wrong assumption. People are people, no matter the race, creed or color. Some individuals are nuts, many aren't. Any religion can be abused by nutjobs. There's nothing particularly bad about Islam anymore than there is anything particularly bad about Christianity.

    however if we were going to judge people by race, gender, and color there seems to be a-lot of white loner men going on killing sprees and serial jags. A disproportionate amount.[/QUOTE]

    You're being somewhat contradictory here, Bit. There is a disproportionate amount of these types of crimes committed by white men, which you admit. But prior to that you state that Islam (or religion in general) can be co-opted for nefarious purposes. But 'people are people"? There is a disproportionate amount of of terrorist attacks in the world that are committed by Middle Eastern men in the name of their religion. Those facts are indisputable. Should you choose to believe otherwise, be my guest.

    To that end, people aren't people either. There are significant cultural differences among races that shape the social mores under which they think. Throw religion into the mix and you have some truly distancing, complicated ****. Attempting to toss that aside and boil it all down to the common denominator of "we're all human beings" comes across as incredibly naive.

  2. #42
    People can rationalize and generalize anything and everything to prove or disprove their point. In the end people are people, some are just evil.

  3. #43
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Staten Island
    Posts
    9,095
    [QUOTE=cr726;4066334]People can rationalize and generalize anything and everything to prove or disprove their point. In the end people are people, some are just evil.[/QUOTE]

    So you believe Markinson was right? ;)

    Respectfully disagree.

  4. #44
    [QUOTE=detectivekimble;4066221]Fail.[/QUOTE]

    Blame the NYT dude... Not me.

    [quote]A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad, issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, according to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at C.N.A., a research institute that studies terrorism. The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces’ presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad. “We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations,” the group said, according to Mr. McCants’ translation, apparently referred to a bombing in Sweden in December 2010. “What you see is only the beginning, and there is more to come[/quote]

  5. #45
    [QUOTE=FF2®;4066279]Pure "Islam" does not preach hate. Misguided Islamics preach hate.[/quote]

    Kill them (unbelievers) wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you, for persecution is worse than slaughter…. Such is the reward of those who reject faith

    Fight against them (unbelievers) until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah

    We will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve

    Seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks

    Allah made a covenant with the children of Israel…. But because they broke their covenant, we cursed them and hardened their hearts. They changed the words from their places and have forgotten a portion of what they were reminded…. With those who called themselves Christians, we made a covenant, but they have forgotten much of what they were reminded. Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred till the day of resurrection.

    Fight them (unbelievers) until persecution is no more and the religion of Allah reigns supreme

    Do not suppose that the unbelievers have outstripped Allah. They cannot frustrate me. Against them make ready your strength to the utmost power, including steeds of war, so that you strike terror into the enemies of allah and your enemy, and others besides them whom you do not know but Allah does

    Those who believe and migrated from their homes and fought for the Way of Allah, and those who have sheltered them and helped them they are truly the believers

    For four months you shall journey freely in the land. but know that you shall not render Allah incapable, and that Allah will humiliate the unbelievers…. And give glad tidings to the unbelievers of a painful punishment…. When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Take them and confine them, then lie in ambush everywhere for them


    Believers, why is it that when it is said to you: ‘march in the way of Allah, ‘ you linger with heaviness in the land? Are you content with this life rather than the everlasting life? Yet the enjoyment of this life in (comparison to) the everlasting life is little. If you do not go forth, he will punish you with a painful punishment and replace you by another nation

    Allah has purchased from the believers their selves and possessions, and for them is paradise. They fight in the way of Allah, slay, and are slain

    Therefore, when you meet the unbelievers smite their necks, then, when you have killed many of them, tie the bonds…. As for those who are killed in the Way of Allah, he will not let their works to go astray

    The believers ask: ‘has a chapter been sent down? ‘ but when a clear chapter is sent down and fighting is mentioned in it, you see those in whose hearts is sickness looking towards you as one who swoons at death



    [quote]Pure "Christianity" does not preach hate. Misguided Christians preach hate.[/QUOTE]

    That's the word of Allah. Believe what you like.

  6. #46
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    24,109
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4066323]

    however if we were going to judge people by race, gender, and color there seems to be a-lot of white loner men going on killing sprees and serial jags. A disproportionate amount.[/QUOTE]

    Killing sprees and serial jags you might be right, but these crimes are few and far between and effect realtively few people. The black race commits by far the most crimes, by a wide margin.

    I can't say I blame the people who jumped to the conclusion that the bomber was muslim, but there are a lot of Timothy McVeighs out there.

  7. #47
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4066323]it's been established this guy was a Christian extremist[/QUOTE]
    Ignorance, bit.

    Mother Theresa was a Christian extremist, living selflessly in imitation of Christ.

    This guy was a ripping psycho with an apparent interest in neo-Nazism.

  8. #48
    [QUOTE=Timmy®;4066356]I can't say I blame the people who jumped to the conclusion that the bomber was muslim, but there are a lot of Timothy McVeighs out there.[/QUOTE]
    A conclusion greatly aided by: 1) Widespread reports of a Muslim group claiming responsibility, 2) Past events, and 3) Some more of 1).

  9. #49
    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;4066346]
    That's the word of Allah. Believe what you like.[/QUOTE]

    read the Bible some time. Old Testiment or Revelations. It's not ponies and lollypops.

  10. #50
    [QUOTE=Jetworks;4066329] Attempting to toss that aside and boil it all down to the common denominator of "we're all human beings" comes across as incredibly naive.[/QUOTE]

    if there was an alien invasion, tomorrow, it wouldn't matter who was a white Christian and who was a brown Muslim. we are all Homo Sapiens, and essentially similar. that's not naive that's science.

  11. #51
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Staten Island
    Posts
    9,095
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4066542]if there was an alien invasion, tomorrow, it wouldn't matter who was a white Christian and who was a brown Muslim. we are all Homo Sapiens, and essentially similar. that's not naive that's science.[/QUOTE]

    You're shifting the goalposts. You've referenced the radical behavior of individuals with "people are people", comparatively, stating that the religion doesn't matter, only that there are crazies. I contended that an individual's culture shapes their thinking, dramatically sometimes. Genetics do not shape the way someone perceives something, whether an individual, an animal or an object. Societal norms and mores do. That too, is science. Of course homo sapiens are the same, but that isn't what you or anyone else was arguing against though.

    Funny that you utilized that alien invasion analogy, because it kind of makes it easier to illustrate my point. While this opinion piece by Ralph Peters is a bit course, it spells out what I am talking about:

    [quote=Ralph Peters]A FUNDAMENTAL reason why our intelligence agencies, military leaders and (above all) Washington pols can't understand Afghanistan is that they don't recognize that we're dealing with alien life-forms.
    Oh, the strange-minded aliens in question resemble us physically. We share a few common needs: We and the aliens are oxygen breathers who require food and water at frequent intervals. Our body casings feel heat or cold. We're divided into two sexes (more or less). And we're mortal.
    But that's about where the similarities end, analytically speaking.

    In my years as an intelligence officer, I saw colleagues make the same blunder over and over: They rushed to stress the ways in which the Russians, the Chinese or the Iranians were "just like us." It's the differences that kill you, though.

    I was an effective intelligence officer. Why? In junior high, I matured past the French Existentialists and started reading science fiction. The prose was often ragged, but the speculative frameworks offered a useful approach to analysis.

    Begin with the view that all opponents are aliens from another cultural planet. Build your assessment from a blank slate. What do the alien collectives desire or fear? How do they perceive the galaxy? What are their unique weaknesses?

    Regarding Planet Afghanistan, we still hear the deadly cliché that "all human beings want the same basic things, such as better lives and greater opportunities for their children." How does that apply to Afghan aliens who prefer their crude way of life and its merciless cults?
    When girls and women are denied education or even health care and are executed by their own kin for minor infractions against the cult, how does that square with our insistence that all men want greater opportunities for the kids?
    What about those Afghan parents who approve of or even encourage suicidal attacks by their sons? This not only confounds our value system, but defies biological reason.

    So: These humanoid forms with which we must deal don't all want or value the same things we do. They form different social aggregates and exchange goods and services within wildly different parameters (and exhibit hypocritical sexual tastes that diverge from procreative mandates - ask our troops about that).
    These alien tribes seek to destroy physical objects and systems valued on Planet America. They perceive time differently. They treat other life forms more harshly than we do. Their own lives are shorter, with different arcs. They quite like our weapons, though . . .

    The point isn't to argue that Afghans are inferior beings. It's just that they're irreconcilably different beings - more divergent from our behavioral norms than the weirdest crew member of the starship Enterprise.
    As an analytical exercise, try to understand Afghanistan as a hostile planet to which we have been forced, in self-defense, to deploy military colonies. How do the bizarre creatures on that other planet view us? What do they want? What will they accept? Is killing us business, pleasure - or both?
    Are there tribes among these aliens with which we can cooperate? Which actions of ours inflame the alien psyche? What will the alien willingly die for? What does the alien find inexplicable about us? Must we preserve a useful climate of fear?

    Do we intend to maintain our military colonies out there in deep space? For how long? Can the angry planet ever be sanitized of threats?

    Of course, there's more in play than images of our "starship troopers" combating those alien life-forms that call themselves "Taliban." This exercise is just meant to break our mental gridlock, to challenge our crippling assumption that we're all merry brothers and sisters who just have to work through a few small understandings.
    This is a "war of the worlds" in the cultural sense, a head-on collision between civilizations from different galaxies.
    And the aliens don't come in peace.[/quote]

  12. #52
    Three sites exploding. One idiot? Here we go again.

  13. #53
    Bewildered Beast
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    SF via Strong Island
    Posts
    31,341
    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;4066346]Kill them (unbelievers) wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you, for persecution is worse than slaughter…. Such is the reward of those who reject faith

    Fight against them (unbelievers) until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah

    We will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve

    Seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks

    Allah made a covenant with the children of Israel…. But because they broke their covenant, we cursed them and hardened their hearts. They changed the words from their places and have forgotten a portion of what they were reminded…. With those who called themselves Christians, we made a covenant, but they have forgotten much of what they were reminded. Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred till the day of resurrection.

    Fight them (unbelievers) until persecution is no more and the religion of Allah reigns supreme

    Do not suppose that the unbelievers have outstripped Allah. They cannot frustrate me. Against them make ready your strength to the utmost power, including steeds of war, so that you strike terror into the enemies of allah and your enemy, and others besides them whom you do not know but Allah does

    Those who believe and migrated from their homes and fought for the Way of Allah, and those who have sheltered them and helped them they are truly the believers

    For four months you shall journey freely in the land. but know that you shall not render Allah incapable, and that Allah will humiliate the unbelievers…. And give glad tidings to the unbelievers of a painful punishment…. When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Take them and confine them, then lie in ambush everywhere for them


    Believers, why is it that when it is said to you: ‘march in the way of Allah, ‘ you linger with heaviness in the land? Are you content with this life rather than the everlasting life? Yet the enjoyment of this life in (comparison to) the everlasting life is little. If you do not go forth, he will punish you with a painful punishment and replace you by another nation

    Allah has purchased from the believers their selves and possessions, and for them is paradise. They fight in the way of Allah, slay, and are slain

    Therefore, when you meet the unbelievers smite their necks, then, when you have killed many of them, tie the bonds…. As for those who are killed in the Way of Allah, he will not let their works to go astray

    The believers ask: ‘has a chapter been sent down? ‘ but when a clear chapter is sent down and fighting is mentioned in it, you see those in whose hearts is sickness looking towards you as one who swoons at death





    That's the word of Allah. Believe what you like.[/QUOTE]

    Someone had to let Allah say it.

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=sackdance;4066385]Ignorance, bit.

    Mother Theresa was a Christian extremist, living selflessly in imitation of Christ.

    This guy was a ripping psycho with an apparent interest in neo-Nazism.[/QUOTE]

    Mother Teresa? Maybe you should read up on her.

  15. #55
    [QUOTE=WestCoastOffensive;4066181]Because you say so?[/QUOTE]

    of course not, because information makes it a debatable idea. There seem to be some conflicting ideas in Islam regarding which books to follow and which ones are authentic. (The Qur'an and the Haddith or Sunnah. Islam has many more layers than what is normally portrayed.

    It confuses the hell out of me, but all I can tell is that not all Muslims believe the same thing. Some ideas are more prevalent, and more useful to those in power, it seem, which is such a novel idea, religion being perverted to increase and maintain power.

  16. #56
    Bewildered Beast
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    SF via Strong Island
    Posts
    31,341
    [QUOTE=piney;4066608]of course not, because information makes it a debatable idea. There seem to be some conflicting ideas in Islam regarding which books to follow and which ones are authentic. (The Qur'an and the Haddith or Sunnah. Islam has many more layers than what is normally portrayed.

    It confuses the hell out of me, but all I can tell is that not all Muslims believe the same thing. Some ideas are more prevalent, and more useful to those in power, it seem, which is such a novel idea, religion being perverted to increase and maintain power.[/QUOTE]

    I like your post; I have the same conflicting emotions.

    However, Muhummad is a tough talkin prophet, and that whole side of Islam is brushed under the rug.

  17. #57
    [QUOTE=cr726;4066604]Mother Teresa? Maybe you should read up on her.[/QUOTE]
    What, she was running a ponzi scheme?

  18. #58
    [QUOTE=WestCoastOffensive;4066610]I like your post; I have the same conflicting emotions.

    However, Muhummad is a tough talkin prophet, and that whole side of Islam is brushed under the rug.[/QUOTE]

    I agree, and I do think there are some really irreconcilable issues when talking about Mohammed. I do think, if memory serves correct, that there are parts of Islam that kind of say Mohammed the prophet, the one who had seizures in a cave, received the word of God, was the prophet, Mohammed the man...not so much, and the authenticity of what is actually from Mohammed and what was sort of made up after years of word-of-mouth preaching and retelling is in question.

    Islam is confusing, and when you deal with a religion that has such a conflicting and murky history with regards to what was written down and what was passed along orally, I don't see how I could make a blanket statement about all Muslims believing one thing, sort of how I couldn't expect all Christian denominations to be exactly alike.

    I do think the vocal majority of the Muslim population today would fall under the umbrella of an antagonistic/anti-west mentality to say the least. I think though, that would be an obvious statement to make when you consider that the more moderate or peaceful Muslims are like everyone else and live their lives and practice their religion. They really wouldn't be the noisemakers in the world.

    I think the real issue is higher up the food chain, religious leaders, political leaders, etc. that can shape the interpretation of the Muslim faith, and seeing how insanely violent, poor and war-torn the M.E. has been throughout the centuries, I think the more forceful elements easily rise to take power, and using the more incendiary aspects of the religion probably enables those in power.

    To me, it is a fascinating issue to look at and try to understand, but, with what I have read, heard, seen, and encountered, I just don't think I can simply sign off on labeling it a religion of hate.

  19. #59
    All League
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Midland Park, NJ
    Posts
    3,704
    [QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;4066346]Kill them (unbelievers) wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you, for persecution is worse than slaughter…. Such is the reward of those who reject faith

    Fight against them (unbelievers) until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah

    We will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve

    Seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks

    Allah made a covenant with the children of Israel…. But because they broke their covenant, we cursed them and hardened their hearts. They changed the words from their places and have forgotten a portion of what they were reminded…. With those who called themselves Christians, we made a covenant, but they have forgotten much of what they were reminded. Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred till the day of resurrection.

    Fight them (unbelievers) until persecution is no more and the religion of Allah reigns supreme

    Do not suppose that the unbelievers have outstripped Allah. They cannot frustrate me. Against them make ready your strength to the utmost power, including steeds of war, so that you strike terror into the enemies of allah and your enemy, and others besides them whom you do not know but Allah does

    Those who believe and migrated from their homes and fought for the Way of Allah, and those who have sheltered them and helped them they are truly the believers

    For four months you shall journey freely in the land. but know that you shall not render Allah incapable, and that Allah will humiliate the unbelievers…. And give glad tidings to the unbelievers of a painful punishment…. When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Take them and confine them, then lie in ambush everywhere for them


    Believers, why is it that when it is said to you: ‘march in the way of Allah, ‘ you linger with heaviness in the land? Are you content with this life rather than the everlasting life? Yet the enjoyment of this life in (comparison to) the everlasting life is little. If you do not go forth, he will punish you with a painful punishment and replace you by another nation

    Allah has purchased from the believers their selves and possessions, and for them is paradise. They fight in the way of Allah, slay, and are slain

    Therefore, when you meet the unbelievers smite their necks, then, when you have killed many of them, tie the bonds…. As for those who are killed in the Way of Allah, he will not let their works to go astray

    The believers ask: ‘has a chapter been sent down? ‘ but when a clear chapter is sent down and fighting is mentioned in it, you see those in whose hearts is sickness looking towards you as one who swoons at death





    That's the word of Allah. Believe what you like.[/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.guidetosalvation.com/Website/violent_verses.htm#Death_of_Women,_Children,_Infants,_and_Unborn_babies[/url].

    Reading... good

    Fire... badddd

    I can cherry pick too! It's fun!

    The dude was a right wing fringe christian extremest who had the stones to actually go through with his misguided teachings while his other buddies in the chat rooms and forums cheered on the deaths of innocent people... I don't really know how you can stand around and stomp your feet to the tune of "b-b-but the muslims!!11!"

    Call a spade a spade. wacko christian, fueled by wacko christian propaganda online (not unlike many new aged Islamic terrorists like the time square failure), went out and killed innocent people in the name of the same sky wizard they all seem to fall over themselves to impress
    Last edited by FreshBaked 24 7; 07-24-2011 at 02:51 AM.

  20. #60
    [QUOTE=FreshBaked 24 7;4066660][url]http://www.guidetosalvation.com/Website/violent_verses.htm#Death_of_Women,_Children,_Infants,_and_Unborn_babies[/url].

    I can cherry pick too! It's fun![/QUOTE]
    In the off chance you ever write something that makes any sense I have to wonder if your "FreshBaked 24 7" handle will detract from it.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us