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Thread: Administration spin machine at work on S&P downgrade

  1. #1
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    Administration spin machine at work on S&P downgrade

    So wait a minute. I'm hearing two totally different messages from the government:

    1. The S&P downgrade doesn't matter. (i.e. shoot the messenger, discredit the truth teller)

    but also...

    2. If it does matter, it's the TEA party's fault

    So which is it?

    I'll be the last to pat the backs of the rating agencies but when someone holds an intervention to tell a drug-addicted friend, "you have a problem," the last thing people should do is demonize the person intervening.

    If anyone on the planet, other than the Oracle of Omaha who has taken a relativism approach on ratings, thinks the U.S. and it's $14 Trillion in debt and atrocious Debt-to-GDP ratio deserves the HIGHEST credit rating available, raise your hand. For comparison, try working a $50K/year job, having $50K in credit card debt with a plan to [B][I]only[/I][/B] increase that debt to $75K over the coming years, and then tell Equifax or TransUnion you expect an 850 FICO score.

    S&P told us something that we all already knew, and now the government is criticizing S&P for doing exactly what the government told them they should have done during the mortgage/CDS meltdown -- start raising the red flag. Well S&P is raising the red flag, they're calling bullspit on the token Debt Ceiling agreement from last week. And, the reports that the government furiously lobbied and made last ditch efforts to thwart a S&P downgrade on Friday night is amazing. Like a crack addict with a needle hanging from his arm yelling, "I don't have a drug problem," Geithner and the administration are failing to face reality and think that they can simply talk their way out of what are very real consequences to not having our fiscal house in order.

    S&P telegraphed this for months, calling for $4T in cuts and saying anything less wouldn't support a pristine credit rating. When the government gave us a $2T deal with little/no real teeth and kicked the can down the road to some "super commission" what did the government think would happen? Why is this a shock? And, why does the administration now shoot the messenger?

  2. #2
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    It's everyone's fault. If the administration wanted to stop the bleeding and take the fear out of the markets he would have called the leadership of both parties in on Friday and asked the Congress to come back in and pass Simpson Bowles over the weekend. We could have gotten our rating back along with the tax reform we need to grow the economy.

  3. #3
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    Agreed with everything above. To see David Axelrod say on tv that this is a "Tea Party Downgrade" made me just shake my head. It's almost insulting that the Obama campaign thinks the American people are dumb enough to believe that tripe.

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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4096239]It's everyone's fault. If the administration wanted to stop the bleeding and take the fear out of the markets he would have called the leadership of both parties in on Friday and asked the Congress to come back in and pass Simpson Bowles over the weekend. We could have gotten our rating back along with the tax reform we need to grow the economy.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. Someone needs to fricken step up and lead!

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    [QUOTE=pauliec;4096247]Agreed with everything above. To see David Axelrod say on tv that this is a "Tea Party Downgrade" made me just shake my head. It's almost insulting that the Obama campaign thinks the American people are dumb enough to believe that tripe.[/QUOTE]

    There are people on this forum that believe this tripe...

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4096251]There are people on this forum that believe this tripe...[/QUOTE]

    Maybe they say they do, but seriously, no one really does. Few people are that stupid.

    Those who believe the US deserves a AAA credit rating are the ones who believe the tooth fairy leaves money under their pillows.

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    [QUOTE=pauliec;4096247]Agreed with everything above. To see David Axelrod say on tv that this is a "Tea Party Downgrade" made me just shake my head. It's almost insulting that the Obama campaign thinks the American people are dumb enough to believe that tripe.[/QUOTE]

    When in your entire life you lead a bunch of "Chicago constituents" as a community organizer, what else do you know. Reminds me of Mel Watt here in Charlotte representing the West side.

    Look at the church he attended for so many years.... scare tactics, Jesse shakedown tactics , now he realizes he is not so smart. Scary, I think he believes in his policy. There is no end to taxing the top 5 percent.

    the Tea Party wants spending to at or near taxation. What a terrible thing.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=jetstream23;4096256]Maybe they say they do[/QUOTE]

    No maybe about it...

    [QUOTE=cr726;4093652]The Tea Party/GOP wanted to bring Obama down and they took the country down to do it. Congrats.[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE=bitonti;4093770]i wonder if the tea party had accepted the 4.3 T grand bargain between Obama and Boehner if this would have happened.[/QUOTE]

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4096259]the Tea Party wants spending to at or near taxation. What a terrible thing.[/QUOTE]

    Then why do they insert pork into bills at the same rate as the people they were elected to replace?

    Seems to me that if I was stupid f*ck running for office on the platform of cutting spending, I would....er....CUT SPENDING. But it's OK in Tea Party-land-land-land-land-land-land-land.

  10. #10
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    Bush was a bad spender, Obama just the same. Parties don't matter to fiscal conservatives, taxing and spending rates do.

    I'm a social moderate and a fiscal conservative. I could give two ships what people do in their own bedrooms and if they want to legalize pot, go for it. But how dare you bloat the government with programs, projects, government-funded cow fart studies and bridges to nowhere and then ask me to pay for it all. I can tell you that I'm certainly taxed enough already and the idea that we should take even more money out the paychecks of hardworking people and entrepreneurial investors is crazy. We need tax reform, a flatter and broader base with closed loopholes. And we need to turn off the out of control spending spigot!

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    [QUOTE=jetstream23;4096232]So wait a minute. I'm hearing two totally different messages from the government:

    1. The S&P downgrade doesn't matter. (i.e. shoot the messenger, discredit the truth teller)

    but also...

    2. If it does matter, it's the TEA party's fault

    So which is it?[/QUOTE]
    Well, at times is was 3. S&P's numbers were off by $2 trillion - according to the White House.

    How about scheduling a speech for 1pm and not getting started until 1:45? No one noticed that, right O?

    Sell off as soon as he started blaming the Tea Party.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=jetstream23;4096287]Bush was a bad spender, Obama just the same. Parties don't matter to fiscal conservatives, taxing and spending rates do.

    I'm a social moderate and a fiscal conservative. I could give two ships what people do in their own bedrooms and if they want to legalize pot, go for it. But how dare you bloat the government with programs, projects, government-funded cow fart studies and bridges to nowhere and then ask me to pay for it all. I can tell you that I'm certainly taxed enough already and the idea that we should take even more money out the paychecks of hardworking people and entrepreneurial investors is crazy. We need tax reform, a flatter and broader base with closed loopholes. And we need to turn off the out of control spending spigot![/QUOTE]

    :applause::applause::applause:

    Me too..Gays can marry for all I care... but when we all don't pay something, it is simply vote buying. PLAIN and SIMPLE.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4096332]:applause::applause::applause:

    Me too..Gays can marry for all I care... but when we all don't pay something, it is simply vote buying. PLAIN and SIMPLE.[/QUOTE]

    About 20 years ago I was running for student council President against my friend, Bob. There were about 100 people in the class population and the big debate had been about who gets to do the setup and planning for the Prom and who will have to do Clean-up afterwards on Sunday (which sucks). The student council president will decide how to divy up the tasks for the Prom teams.

    We're in the auditorium giving our campaign speeches. Bob stands up and says, "I will either split up the work evenly among everyone or we'll pull names out of a hat to see who does the clean-up." People grumble, say it seems fair but it's risky that they may get picked to contribute to clean-up or share in the duties. Bob gets some applause and sits down.

    I stand up and look out at the audience. I ask everyone in a white shirt to stand up. About 15 people of the 100 stand up. I say, "If I'm elected, those of you wearing a white shirt will be on the Clean up team." I tell everyone that I don't want to waste their time with a long speech and sit down.

    I get about 80+ votes and win in a landslide.

    And oh, by the way, what a huge mess those 85 people who weren't on Clean-up made at the Prom. They had a blast! :yes:


    Moral of the story - It's easy to point the finger at a few and say, "we'll just make them do everything or pay for everything." And the people who don't pay have little vested interest in being careful, spending wisely and not making a big mess at the party.

  14. #14
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    There seems to be some type of thinking gov't spending doesn't help anyone but people who want entitlements.



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  15. #15
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    Cheney is still getting a big hand too. Maybe he can afford some shooting lessons now


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    [QUOTE=sackdance;4096331]Well, at times is was 3. S&P's numbers were off by $2 trillion - according to the White House.

    How about scheduling a speech for 1pm and not getting started until 1:45? No one noticed that, right O?

    Sell off as soon as he started blaming the Tea Party.[/QUOTE]

    Looks like S and P blamed the T Party


    [QUOTE] More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011.[/QUOTE]

    [url]http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011/08/05/sp-downgrades-u-s-debt-rating-press-release/[/url]

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4096239]It's everyone's fault. If the administration wanted to stop the bleeding and take the fear out of the markets he would have called the leadership of both parties in on Friday and asked the Congress to come back in and pass Simpson Bowles over the weekend. We could have gotten our rating back along with the tax reform we need to grow the economy.[/QUOTE]

    this POS President called for the fiscal deficit commission, then IGNORED their advice, caling it "a framework for a debate".

    ENTITLEMENT REFORM is the only way to fiscal health

    right after O's speech this afternoon, the mkt tanked another 200 points. INVESTORS know what the F*K is going on

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4096415]Looks like S and P blamed the T Party




    [url]http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011/08/05/sp-downgrades-u-s-debt-rating-press-release/[/url][/QUOTE]

    WTF ARE U TALKING ABOUT

    Obama wanted a "clean" debt ceiling increase, with NO friggin cuts- his fargin budget (unanimously voted down) actually increased spending

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=Tucker134;4096434]WTF ARE U TALKING ABOUT

    Obama wanted a "clean" debt ceiling increase, with NO friggin cuts- his fargin budget (unanimously voted down) actually increased spending[/QUOTE]

    That's what the standard is. The debt ceiling is not the place for fixing America's spending ills. The debt ceiling is required to pay for what America has already spent

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Tucker134;4096428]this POS President called for the fiscal deficit commission, then IGNORED their advice, caling it "a framework for a debate".

    ENTITLEMENT REFORM is the only way to fiscal health

    right after O's speech this afternoon, the mkt tanked another 200 points. INVESTORS know what the F*K is going on[/QUOTE]

    The market was going to tank regardless. The smart folks got out two weeks ago.

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