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Thread: Hypothetical Vaccination Question

  1. #1
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    Hypothetical Vaccination Question

    When/if the vaccine for AIDS is discovered would you support a government mandate to vaccinate all US citizens?

    All US Children?

    All Federal Government Employees?

  2. #2
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    the whole vaccination thing is an interesting subject

    i dont believe there is proof that a certain vaccine causes a certain condition

    but these things are dangerous, far less safe than the big pharma will have the public believe. there are side effects and many vaccines can cause the diseases they are supposed to prevent..

    also they are reluctant to make vaccines for diseases they can "treat"

    for example AIDS drugs costs a fortune and make a steady profit, a single dose AIDS vaccine would really be bad news for the drug companies. it's a big business and it's not always conducted with the best interest of people in mind. it's for profit.

    as for the original question... in the end it depends on the circumstances, AIDS is very serious but not such a contagious (i.e. airborne) epidemic to warrant mandatory vaccination (JMO).

    something like polio or small pox ok that makes more sense for the gov't to step in and mandate vaccines.

    it should also be noted that vaccines take months to prepare and 300 million vaccines for anything won't just appear. at risk groups will have to get priority, regardless of the disease.

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    BUT if you inoculate everyone you will (virtually) annihilate (great comic book word) the virus.

    Like Smallpox and Polio

  4. #4
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    Of course there should be mandatory inoculations against disease. Until the FDA and our political system has credibility and the conflict of interest between government and big business is ended, there simply is a credibility gap in the safety and reasons for these inoculations.

    Our government needs serious reform. A very large portion of the people no longer trust the institutions that were legislated to protect them and improve our lives.

  5. #5
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    Absolutely not.

    The federal government has no business mandating what would otherwise be a personal decision.

    I may be willing to support this on my state level. As a person in the health industry, I would strongly encourage and promote the use of the vaccine to as many people as I could reach. I'd support financially any private cause to get it to as many people on this planet as possible.

    But if there is a family in Utah that for whatever reason (say, religious belief) doesn't want to stick a needle in their arm, that is their decision.

    In the end, when (not if) an AIDS vaccine becomes available, I believe very few would make that choice (and those that do would be low risk), and the disease will be eradicated in 1 or 2 generations.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4145931]the whole vaccination thing is an interesting subject

    i dont believe there is proof that a certain vaccine causes a certain condition

    but these things are dangerous, far less safe than the big pharma will have the public believe. there are side effects and many vaccines can cause the diseases they are supposed to prevent..

    also they are reluctant to make vaccines for diseases they can "treat"

    for example AIDS drugs costs a fortune and make a steady profit, a single dose AIDS vaccine would really be bad news for the drug companies. it's a big business and it's not always conducted with the best interest of people in mind. it's for profit.

    as for the original question... in the end it depends on the circumstances, AIDS is very serious but not such a contagious (i.e. airborne) epidemic to warrant mandatory vaccination (JMO).

    something like polio or small pox ok that makes more sense for the gov't to step in and mandate vaccines.

    it should also be noted that vaccines take months to prepare and 300 million vaccines for anything won't just appear. at risk groups will have to get priority, regardless of the disease.[/QUOTE]

    A suggestion for you:

    Until you've spent a significant amount of time working for a pharmaceutical company and/or doing extensive AIDS research, keep your recycled opinions to yourself.

    Because once again, it is clear to anyone that has that you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about.

    Trust me, I'm doing you a favor. You are looking sillier and sillier by the day.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4145931]the whole vaccination thing is an interesting subject

    i dont believe there is proof that a certain vaccine causes a certain condition

    but these things are dangerous, far less safe than the big pharma will have the public believe. there are side effects and [B]many vaccines can cause the diseases they are supposed to prevent..[/B]

    [/QUOTE]

    That's the point, to build antibodies. Anyone who gets a flu shot, to a degree, gets the flu.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4146017]Of course there should be mandatory inoculations against disease. Until the FDA and our political system has credibility and the conflict of interest between government and big business is ended, there simply is a credibility gap in the safety and reasons for these inoculations.

    Our government needs serious reform. A very large portion of the people no longer trust the institutions that were legislated to protect them and improve our lives.[/QUOTE]

    +1

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4146017]Of course there should be mandatory inoculations against disease. Until the FDA and our political system has credibility and the conflict of interest between government and big business is ended, there simply is a credibility gap in the safety and reasons for these inoculations.

    Our government needs serious reform. A very large portion of the people no longer trust the institutions that were legislated to protect them and improve our lives.[/QUOTE]

    As usual, Winstom nails it, likely better than I could. So my usual +1 applies.

    Also, love the irony of Bitonti claiming "well, just not enough proof" that for some, the vaccine is the cause of their problems, all the while shouting to the rafters that we have all the data we need to prove mankind is the primary and only meaningful factor in climate change on Earth. It's great when the forum makes me actually lol first thing to start the day.:D

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    Not for the AIDS virus, no.

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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4146017]Of course there should be mandatory inoculations against disease. Until the FDA and our political system has credibility and the conflict of interest between government and big business is ended, there simply is a credibility gap in the safety and reasons for these inoculations.

    [B]Our government needs serious reform. A very large portion of the people no longer trust the institutions that were legislated to protect them and improve our lives[/B].[/QUOTE]


    That maybe impossible. Consider Michele Bachmann announcing on TWO television shows that the HPV vaccine caused Autism in one girl.

    Last night i heard on the " Diane Rehm" show that 35 million vaccines have been administered without a documented case of Autism or Mental Retardation.

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    [QUOTE=Buster;4146227]That maybe impossible. Consider Michele Bachmann announcing on TWO television shows that the HPV vaccine caused Autism in one girl.

    Last night i heard on the " Diane Rehm" show that 35 million vaccines have been administered without a documented case of Autism or Mental Retardation.[/QUOTE]

    So "you heard" Bachman say it, so it MUST be false.

    And "you heard" the Rehm show say it, so it MUST be true.

    I salute you, intrepid investigative journalist!;)

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Buster;4146227]That maybe impossible. Consider Michele Bachmann announcing on TWO television shows that the HPV vaccine caused Autism in one girl.

    Last night i heard on the " Diane Rehm" show that 35 million vaccines have been administered without a documented case of Autism or Mental Retardation.[/QUOTE]

    Michelle Bachman is a right wing nut out of her friggin mind lunatic. That said she did tap into a very serious problem there is a complete lack of trust in our government institutions. It's that lack of trust that makes her comment appeal to more than just a small segment of the population.

    When the President is giving federal guaranteed loans to companies who are insolvent for a photo op or as payback for political donations and inspectors are going to work for meat packing companies, drug companies, oil companies, etc.,etc., etc. while collecting public pensions and the legislation to protect us is bought by big pharma and other large companies, how in the world can the public have confidence in the cred of institutions that are supposed to be protecting our interests?

    I'm a died in the wool liberal but the reason I don't support the Democrats anymore is the institutions they built with good intentions are now inherently evil in their obvious corruption. The President is about to run for President with a Billion dollar budget. The Democratic Senate majority was built on large donations from Wall Street strong armed by Chuck Shumar shakedowns. The Republicans aren’t any better, they’re just out of power at the moment.

    That's not to say we should get rid of government it means we need change as in reform or the country is going to fail. This is where Obama failed miserably when it came to change we can believe in.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4146228]So "you heard" Bachman say it, so it MUST be false.

    And "you heard" the Rehm show say it, so it MUST be true.

    I salute you, intrepid investigative journalist!;)[/QUOTE]

    :rotfl:

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4146228]So "you heard" Bachman say it, so it MUST be false.

    And "you heard" the Rehm show say it, so it MUST be true.

    I salute you, intrepid investigative journalist!;)[/QUOTE]

    [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/us/politics/misstatements-shadow-bachmann-in-republican-presidential-race.html?_r=1&scp=7&sq=Michele%20Bachmann%20HPV&st=cse"]http://www.nytimes.com[/URL]

    [QUOTE]

    [B]With Stakes for Bachmann Higher Now, Her Words Get in the Way[/B]

    In the pugilism of this week’s Republican presidential debate, Representative Michele Bachmann seemed to have landed a clean blow against Gov. Rick Perry over an order he issued requiring Texas schoolgirls to be vaccinated against a sexually transmitted virus.

    But then in follow-up interviews, Mrs. Bachmann suggested the vaccine was linked to “mental retardation.”

    [B]As experts quickly pointed out, there is no evidence whatsoever linking the vaccine to mental retardation — and Mrs. Bachmann ended up shifting the focus off Mr. Perry and on to her long-running penchant for exaggeration. [/B]

    It is a pattern her current and former aides know well — her tendency to let her passion for an issue overwhelm a sober look at the facts, resulting in indefensible remarks that, in a presidential primary race, are raising questions about her judgment and maturity.

    [B]“[U]She made a mistake[/U],” said Ed Rollins, Mrs. Bachmann’s former campaign manager and still a senior adviser, on Wednesday in an interview with MSNBC.
    [/B]

    “Mrs. Bachmann’s an emotional person who basically has great feeling for people,” he added. “Obviously she’d have been better if she had stayed on the issue.”

    People close to the campaign echoed Mr. Rollins. They spoke of their frustration that [U]Mrs. Bachmann, who entered the race with a reputation for making unsupportable statements on cable television[/U], has not found the discipline to win credibility with major Republican donors and influential referees in the conservative news media.

    [B]The [U]Wall Street Journal’s editorial page[/U], for one, accused her of “vaccine demagoguery.” [/B]

    Jim Dyke, a former communications director for the Republican National Committee unaffiliated with any candidate, said: “This is the nail in the coffin in her campaign. Because you can be a cable television darling by saying provocative things, but you can’t be president of the United States.”

    Supporters pushed back, arguing that Mrs. Bachmann’s appeal has never been to the party establishment.

    “Maybe she’s a little passionate, but she’s not scripted,” said Kent Sorenson, an Iowa state senator who is chairman of her campaign there. “She’s real. I think people are fed up with these politicians who are so scripted that you don’t know who they are.”

    People close to the campaign, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Mrs. Bachmann is often influenced by the last person she speaks with on an issue rather than maintaining discipline in communicating a message.

    She made the link between the vaccine and mental illness after meeting a tearful woman following Monday night’s debate, she said. The woman said her daughter had developed mental retardation after being vaccinated against human papillomavirus, which can cause cervical cancer.

    [B]Mrs. Bachmann repeated the account Monday night on Fox News and the next morning on NBC’s “Today,”[/B] warning that Mr. Perry’s executive order in Texas would have forced young girls to receive “an injection of what could potentially be a very dangerous drug.”

    Mr. Perry’s edict, in February 2007, was never enforced because the Texas Legislature blocked it. He said during the debate that he had made the wrong decision. It may haunt him with conservative voters who resent government’s role in personal health decisions.

    But the issue is also likely to shadow Mrs. Bachmann, reminding voters of a string of questionable utterances before and since she announced her presidential candidacy.

    Some are simple flubs, such as confusing the anniversary of Elvis Presley’s birth with his death, and the Soviet Union with Russia, as she did on the campaign trail last month in South Carolina.

    “When you speak six times a day, slip-ups can occur,” Mrs. Bachmann said then, in response to a reporter’s question about the gaffes. And referring to voters, her spokeswoman, Alice Stewart, noted that “there has been one contest to date in this race — the Iowa straw poll — and Michele won that.”

    In some cases, campaign insiders said, Mrs. Bachmann’s staff was to blame for feeding her misinformation — such as that New Hampshire, rather than Massachusetts, was the site of “the shot heard round the world” that began the American Revolution, which she told a crowd in Manchester, N.H., in March.

    The flubs echo around the blogosphere and water coolers for a day. But they are different from more serious political assertions that she is prone to utter with conviction, only to have them turn out to be baseless.

    Last year on national television she accused President Obama of planning a trip to India that would cost taxpayers “$200 million a day” and include more than 870 “five-star hotel rooms.” Her source was apparently an unconfirmed report in an Indian newspaper citing an anonymous official, which the White House said had “no basis in reality.”

    “She’s a very impulsive, driven person,” said Ron Carey, a former chairman of the Republican Party of Minnesota who served as Mrs. Bachmann’s chief of staff in the House before leaving last year. He went on to endorse her rival Minnesotan for the presidential nomination, Tim Pawlenty, who dropped out last month.

    Before this week’s debate, determined to slow the momentum of Mr. Perry, Mrs. Bachmann’s advisers prepared a line of attack against his executive order to require vaccinations against HPV for sixth-grade girls.

    Her aides suggested she echo and respond to former Gov. Mitt Romney’s line from a previous debate, at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum in California, that Mr. Perry deserved a “mulligan” on the order, a do-over.

    Mrs. Bachmann executed perfectly. “Little girls who have a negative reaction to this potentially dangerous drug don’t get a mulligan,” Mrs. Bachmann said on Monday night. “They don’t get a do-over.”

    It is unclear whether she will get one now.

    [/QUOTE]

    Here is the link to the Diane Rehm show:

    [URL="http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-09-15/renewed-debate-over-hpv-vaccine"]http://thedianerehmshow.org/[/URL]


    [QUOTE]
    During Tuesday’s CNN tea party presidential nominee debate two of the candidates sparred over perhaps an unlikely issue: the HPV vaccine. Republican Congresswoman Michele Bachmann criticized Republican Governor Rick Perry for signing an executive order in 2007 requiring middle school age girls in the state of Texas to have the vaccine – an order that was subsequently blocked by the Texas state legislature. Her comments renewed debate over the risks and benefits of the HPV vaccine …and what role, if any, the government should have with regard to who gets vaccinated. Diane and her guests discuss benefits and risks of the HPV vaccine.


    Guests:

    Dr. Roberta DeBiasi pediatric infectious diseases physician at Children’s National Medical Center

    Peter Sprigg vice president for policy at the Family Research Council

    Liz Szabo reporter, USA Today

    Dr. Renata Sanders adolescent Health general pediatrics and adolescent medicine, Johns Hopkins Children's Center

    [/QUOTE]

    Transcript from the show is located here:

    [URL="http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-09-15/renewed-debate-over-hpv-vaccine/transcript"]http://thedianerehmshow.org/[/URL]


    [QUOTE]
    REHM


    Now, here's an email from Tracy, who says, "My name is Tracy Wolfe (sp?). My daughter Alexis was seriously injured by Gardasil. She now has brain damage and an uncontrollable seizure disorder. This vaccine needs to be taken off the market. The girls and boys who've been injured need help." So, Dr. DeBiasi, have you seen any other emails, messages, phone calls that reflect the same kind of problem?


    DEBIASI

    Yeah, and I think this is the important part here, is to move away from anecdotal reports. Let's just look at the bigger body of data for safety of the vaccine, and then we can come back to the anecdotal reports. So the initial licensing of the vaccine involved four very large phase two and phase three, meaning thousands -- 30,000 people, women and, in another study, boys. And that was for efficacy, but also looked at very closely for safety.


    DEBIASI

    And in those initial studies -- so large numbers of people -- there were, essentially, no significant severe side effects. There were -- all the adverse events were primarily redness at the site of the vaccine, some low-grade fevers, pain. So that was why it was felt to be safe 'cause it had been studied in a large population and large -- there had not been concerns for safety.


    DEBIASI


    In addition to that, [B]in the six years since it's been in use, there have now been 35 million doses given[/B], and the VAERS...


    REHM


    Thirty-five million. Okay.


    DEBIASI


    [B]Thirty-five million doses. And that data is looked at very carefully, as well in what's called post-licensing monitoring for safety. And the VAER system, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System that Renata mentioned, is a system by which any report, anything that happens to someone who's received a vaccine, can be reported[/B]. So the effect of reporting does not, in any way, imply cause, and I'll give you an example of that.


    DEBIASI


    [B]For instance, if a child was vaccinated and died, then that would be looked into. And, for instance, some of the deaths that were reported following Gardasil, the child actually died in a motor vehicle accident.[/B]


    REHM


    Oh.

    [/QUOTE]

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4146106]A suggestion for you:

    Until you've spent a significant amount of time working for a pharmaceutical company and/or doing extensive AIDS research, keep your recycled opinions to yourself.

    Because once again, it is clear to anyone that has that you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about.

    Trust me, I'm doing you a favor. You are looking sillier and sillier by the day.[/QUOTE]

    here's a suggestion you should read my post cause we are actually agreeing on this issue.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4146186]
    Also, love the irony of Bitonti claiming "well, just not enough proof" that for some, the vaccine is the cause of their problems, all the while shouting to the rafters that we have all the data we need to prove mankind is the primary and only meaningful factor in climate change on Earth. [/QUOTE]

    I dont see any contradiction. There were 71 days this year when Dallas Texas when the temp was over 100 degrees, that's a record. it was the hottest year overall on record in the USA and 8 of the last 10 years have been similar record breakers.These are facts.

    there are no facts that say a HPV vaccine causes autism. different situations call for different conclusions... based on the FACTS. not necessarily that there is a causal effect (Warfish you have exaggerated how much I have said about the cause of global warming, and how to fix it)

    Illl tell ya what tho If I had kids I wouldn't rush to get em all vaccinated up, cause some of these diseases are not problems and some of these vaccinations aren't necessary. it's all about profit even for the doctors office. Going to Africa ok get a malaria vaccine that makes sense but i don't know about 4 year old Americans getting vaccined against Chicken Pox when they all seem to get it anyway.
    Last edited by bitonti; 09-16-2011 at 10:46 AM.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4146262]I dont see any contradiction. There were 71 days this year when Dallas Texas when the temp was over 100 degrees, that's a record. it was the hottest year overall on record in the USA and 8 of the last 10 years have been similar record breakers.These are facts.

    [/QUOTE]

    The earth is about 4.5 Billion years old. Man has been on it for about 200,000 years. Accurate records of temperture in Dallas how long? Facts.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4146262]I dont see any contradiction. There were 71 days this year when Dallas Texas when the temp was over 100 degrees, that's a record. it was the hottest year overall on record in the USA and 8 of the last 10 years have been similar record breakers.These are facts.
    [/QUOTE]

    When Dallas had 69 days of temps over 100, where were you Global Warming fanatics...

    Bear in mind this was 30 years ago...

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4146274]The earth is about 4.5 Billion years old. Man has been on it for about 200,000 years. Accurate records of temperture in Dallas how long? Facts.[/QUOTE]

    the Earth is 5000 years old. and Dinosaurs didn't make it onto Noah's Ark.

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