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Thread: on the stimulus

  1. #1

    on the stimulus

    we've seen the statement many times... that the stimulus was a failure

    is that really the case? look at the GDP numbers

    they go up about a half year after it starts.

    there is modest growth from the 1st stimulus, it's not deniable.

    according to non-partisan CBO in 2010 the stimulus created 3 million jobs.

    So why is it considered a failure? The mistake was one of expectations. no one really knew how bad the recession was... in retrospect, the GDP drop in late 2007/2008 was the worst since WWII. they underestimated the damage done.

    and now let's talk about spending. Look at austerity decisions made by the USA in 1937, Japan in 1991 and the UK in 2010/2011. When all the consumers are tightening up the gov't should spend, not cut. It's basic macroeconomics.

    Republicans right now are looking at the jobs bill and saying it's too expensive. It's not. It's actually more expensive to not do anything and not build roads and bridges.

    thoughts? (or should I say, attacks?)

  2. #2
    [url]http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=45693[/url]

    The Great Depression dominated the 1930s, in large part because President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal programs failed to create jobs. In May 1939, shortly after learning that unemployment stood at 20.7%, Henry Morgenthau, the secretary of the Treasury, exploded: “We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work.” Morgenthau concluded, “I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”

    :jets17

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=AlbanyJet;4148628][url]http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=45693[/url]

    The Great Depression dominated the 1930s, in large part because President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal programs failed to create jobs. In May 1939, shortly after learning that unemployment stood at 20.7%, Henry Morgenthau, the secretary of the Treasury, exploded: “We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work.” Morgenthau concluded, “I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”

    :jets17[/QUOTE]

    Wall Street and banks have anything to with that too? Or are we going o keep on ignoring history?

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=cr726;4148642]Wall Street and banks have anything to with that too? Or are we going o keep on ignoring history?[/QUOTE]

    easy there, Hoffa!

    & be safe out there bro

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=Tucker134;4148695]easy there, Hoffa!

    & be safe out there bro[/QUOTE]

    106 everyday!

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4147604]we've seen the statement many times... that the stimulus was a failure

    is that really the case? look at the GDP numbers

    they go up about a half year after it starts.

    there is modest growth from the 1st stimulus, it's not deniable.

    according to non-partisan CBO in 2010 the stimulus created 3 million jobs.

    So why is it considered a failure? The mistake was one of expectations. no one really knew how bad the recession was... in retrospect, the GDP drop in late 2007/2008 was the worst since WWII. they underestimated the damage done.

    and now let's talk about spending. Look at austerity decisions made by the USA in 1937, Japan in 1991 and the UK in 2010/2011. When all the consumers are tightening up the gov't should spend, not cut. It's basic macroeconomics.

    Republicans right now are looking at the jobs bill and saying it's too expensive. It's not. It's actually more expensive to not do anything and not build roads and bridges.

    thoughts? (or should I say, attacks?)[/QUOTE]

    Wasn't the original stimulus Bush's idea?

    If you are going to blame everything on Bush, shouldn't you give him credit?

    See how that works?

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4147604]we've seen the statement many times... that the stimulus was a failure

    is that really the case? look at the GDP numbers

    they go up about a half year after it starts.

    there is modest growth from the 1st stimulus, it's not deniable.

    according to non-partisan CBO in 2010 the stimulus created 3 million jobs.

    So why is it considered a failure? The mistake was one of expectations. no one really knew how bad the recession was... in retrospect, the GDP drop in late 2007/2008 was the worst since WWII. they underestimated the damage done.

    and now let's talk about spending. Look at austerity decisions made by the USA in 1937, Japan in 1991 and the UK in 2010/2011. When all the consumers are tightening up the gov't should spend, not cut. It's basic macroeconomics.

    Republicans right now are looking at the jobs bill and saying it's too expensive. It's not. It's actually more expensive to not do anything and not build roads and bridges.

    thoughts? (or should I say, attacks?)[/QUOTE]

    I believe from the last time you told me to go read the CBO report and I did they said "MAY HAVE saved or created 3 million" jobs. There are many other reports that I posted in that same thread that refute that number along with a bunch of the other data based on the logic of we thought that the economy would be at point A if it wasn't for the stimulus bout we are at point B so it worked.

    Funny that the same CBO said that the stimulus would keep unemployment at or below 8%. Even the skeweed number has been consistently over 9 and when you consider people that have given up or are under employed the number nears 20%.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4147604]we've seen the statement many times... that the stimulus was a failure

    is that really the case? look at the GDP numbers

    they go up about a half year after it starts.

    there is modest growth from the 1st stimulus, it's not deniable.

    according to non-partisan CBO in 2010 the stimulus created 3 million jobs.

    So why is it considered a failure? The mistake was one of expectations. no one really knew how bad the recession was... in retrospect, the GDP drop in late 2007/2008 was the worst since WWII. they underestimated the damage done.

    and now let's talk about spending. Look at austerity decisions made by the USA in 1937, Japan in 1991 and the UK in 2010/2011. When all the consumers are tightening up the gov't should spend, not cut. It's basic macroeconomics.

    Republicans right now are looking at the jobs bill and saying it's too expensive. It's not. It's actually more expensive to not do anything and not build roads and bridges.

    thoughts? (or should I say, attacks?)[/QUOTE]

    The Jets are 2-0. Clearly the stimulus worked. :rolleyes:

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Trades;4149676]
    Funny that the same CBO said that the stimulus would keep unemployment at or below 8%. [/QUOTE]

    as noted earlier the people making the predictions didn't realize the damage done. the crisis in late 2008 was the worst economic event in this country since 1929. I agree they did a poor job projecting where the unemployment rate would be after it's done. BUt it's a stretch to say because unemployment is higher than 8% that the stim was a failure. It did ok. It build some infrastructure. More is needed.

  10. #10
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    One would think that a "stimulus" was meant to be long term. But over the long term, things have gotten worse. So, stimulus == suck.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4149748]as noted earlier the people making the predictions didn't realize the damage done. the crisis in late 2008 was the worst economic event in this country since 1929. I agree they did a poor job projecting where the unemployment rate would be after it's done. BUt it's a stretch to say because unemployment is higher than 8% that the stim was a failure. It did ok. It build some infrastructure. More is needed.[/QUOTE]

    My comments were speaking to the validity of the CBO reports claims based on flawed guesses rather than the success or failure of the stimulus. How can we go with their guess that there would have been 3,000,000 less jobs if they were also wrong on where unemployment would have been?

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=Trades;4149784]My comments were speaking to the validity of the CBO reports claims based on flawed guesses rather than the success or failure of the stimulus. How can we go with their guess that there would have been 3,000,000 less jobs if they were also wrong on where unemployment would have been?[/QUOTE]

    why are we defining this purely as a jobs issue? the GDP numbers are real and not from the CBO.

    the sad fact of the matter is some of those jobs might never come back. and it's not the fault of the Stimulus or the Presidents who were in power during the stimulus. there might be structural unemployment higher than 5% for a long time.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4147604]
    thoughts? (or should I say, attacks?)[/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Zsci0Bg5I[/url]

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4149748]as noted earlier the people making the predictions didn't realize the damage done. the crisis in late 2008 was the worst economic event in this country since 1929. I agree they did a poor job projecting where the unemployment rate would be after it's done. BUt it's a stretch to say because unemployment is higher than 8% that the stim was a failure. It did ok. It build some infrastructure. More is needed.[/QUOTE]

    In other words, President Barcak H. Obama and his White House democrat retinue are Hopelessly-Incompetent!

    They should lose their jobs for being so wrong and wasting....how much money?

    Period!

    :jets17

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=AlbanyJet;4152209]
    They should lose their jobs for being so wrong and wasting....how much money?
    [/QUOTE]

    that's kinda my point. the money wasn't a waste. It did good and it saw results. the GDP went up purely due to the stim.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4152260]that's kinda my point. the money wasn't a waste. It did good and it saw results. the GDP went up purely due to the stim.[/QUOTE]

    :rotfl:

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4152260]that's kinda my point. the money wasn't a waste. It did good and it saw results. the GDP went up [B]purely[/B] due to the stim.[/QUOTE]

    Please!!!! Are you kidding me? How on Earth can you claim that?

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Trades;4152525]Please!!!! Are you kidding me? How on Earth can you claim that?[/QUOTE]

    Government spending is part of GDP.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=Trades;4152525]Please!!!! Are you kidding me? How on Earth can you claim that?[/QUOTE]

    why else would it go up in a time of global credit crunch contraction?

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4152821]why else would it go up in a time of global credit crunch contraction?[/QUOTE]

    It "went up". LMAO

    What, .07%?

    Yeah, that trillion dollars Obuttocks pissed away sure did the trick.

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