Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 140

Thread: The Death Penalty

  1. #1

    The Death Penalty

    Seems a rather appropriate topic today.

    Last night, the Govt. killed two men. One was convicted of dragging a man behind a truck till he died. The other, of shooting a man, pistol whipping another, and then shooting and killing a police oficer.

    As even a brief perusal of th enews will show, one case, the white man who was part of the trio who dragged a black man to death in a clearly race-based murder, is getting little to no comment.

    The other, where a black man killed a white police officer, has the entire World in an uproar over his guilt, the sentence, and the very core legallity/rightiousness of the death penalty.

    So, how do you feel about the Death Penalty today?

  2. #2
    You're probably not paying attention...

    I didn't live in Texas when I heard about James Byrd's death...

    They made a movie about it...

    Re-written legislation about it...

    What are you looking for exactly?

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4154181]Seems a rather appropriate topic today.

    Last night, the Govt. killed two men. One was convicted of dragging a man behind a truck till he died. The other, of shooting a man, pistol whipping another, and then shooting and killing a police oficer.

    As even a brief perusal of th enews will show, one case, the white man who was part of the trio who dragged a black man to death in a clearly race-based murder, is getting little to no comment.

    The other, where a black man killed a white police officer, has the entire World in an uproar over his guilt, the sentence, and the very core legallity/rightiousness of the death penalty.

    So, how do you feel about the Death Penalty today?[/QUOTE]

    well it's not totally true that no one commenting on the first case. the white supremacist got a ton of publicity including his last meal which was reportedly over 3500 calories. it's a huge story...



    but to answer your question warfish there's an awful lot of grey area.

    First off I question how 2 wrongs make a right. Gov't sanctioned murder... to punish a murder, it just doesn't compute. We are saying don't kill people its morally wrong... or the gov't will kill you. Um... ok. Mix messages much?

    Or another question why is the killing of one type of citizen (police officer) or in one type of circumstances (hate crime) actually a worse type of murder than just normal everyday murder? If a man 1st degree murders his wife that's life in prison but a white man kills a black man for racial hate reasons he's gonna die. It's playing in the margins of morality. I don't see how one tragedy is worse than another tragedy. It's all very tragic.

    finally Revenge was a great evolutionary trait (you take my food, ill make sure you don't do that again) but it doesn't seem to prevent murders or other heinous crimes. It doesn't bring back the victims. It probably doesn't even save money (with all the appeals processes etc). I don't know what the benefit of all this capital punishment is...

    you aren't gonna like this last comment but like slavery and universal healthcare we are clearly lagging behind the rest of the world on capital punishment. There are first world countries like UK, France that don't do it anymore and there are 2nd and 3rd world countries like China that do. I'd rather be among the 1st world. 500 years from now our descendants will probably look back at capital punishment with horror.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4154193]What are you looking for exactly?[/QUOTE]

    I thought that was clear.

    I'm looking for thoughts and opinions and debate on the death penalty, on a day when that topic is all the news and controversy.

  5. #5
    As usual, Ann Coulter nails it....

    [QUOTE]
    Cop Killer Troy Davis Is Media's Latest Baby Seal

    By Ann Coulter | September 22, 2011 | 10:04

    For decades, liberals tried persuading Americans to abolish the death penalty, using their usual argument: hysterical sobbing.

    Only when the media began lying about innocent people being executed did support for the death penalty begin to waver, falling from 80 percent to about 60 percent in a little more than a decade. (Silver lining: That's still more Americans than believe in man-made global warming.)
    Fifty-nine percent of Americans now believe that an innocent man has been executed in the last five years. There is more credible evidence that space aliens have walked among us than that an innocent person has been executed in this country in the past 60 years, much less the past five years.

    But unless members of the public are going to personally review trial transcripts in every death penalty case, they have no way of knowing the truth. The media certainly won't tell them.
    It's nearly impossible to receive a death sentence these days -- unless you do something completely crazy like shoot a cop in full view of dozens of witnesses in a Burger King parking lot, only a few hours after shooting at a passing car while exiting a party.

    That's what Troy Davis did in August 1989. Davis is the media's current baby seal of death row.
    After a two-week trial with 34 witnesses for the state and six witnesses for the defense, the jury of seven blacks and five whites took less than two hours to convict Davis of Officer Mark MacPhail's murder, as well as various other crimes. Two days later, the jury sentenced Davis to death.

    Now, a brisk 22 years after Davis murdered Officer MacPhail, his sentence will finally be administered this week -- barring any more of the legal shenanigans that have kept taxpayers on the hook for Davis' room and board for the past two decades.

    (The average time on death row is 14 years. Then liberals turn around and triumphantly claim the death penalty doesn't have any noticeable deterrent effect. As the kids say: Duh.)

    It has been claimed -- in The New York Times and Time magazine, for example -- that there was no "physical evidence" connecting Davis to the crimes that night.

    Davis pulled out a gun and shot two strangers in public. What "physical evidence" were they expecting? No houses were broken into, no cars stolen, no rapes or fistfights accompanied the shootings. Where exactly would you look for DNA? And to prove what?

    I suppose it would be nice if the shell casings from both shootings that night matched. Oh wait -- they did. That's "physical evidence."

    It's true that the bulk of the evidence against Davis was eyewitness testimony. That tends to happen when you shoot someone in a busy Burger King parking lot.

    Eyewitness testimony, like all evidence tending to show guilt, has gotten a bad name recently, but the "eyewitness" testimony in this case did not consist simply of strangers trying to distinguish one tall black man from another. For one thing, several of the eyewitnesses knew Davis personally.

    The bulk of the eyewitness testimony established the following:

    Two tall, young black men were harassing a vagrant in the Burger King parking lot, one in a yellow shirt and the other in a white Batman shirt. The one in the white shirt used a brown revolver to pistol-whip the vagrant. When a cop yelled at them to stop, the man in the white shirt ran, then wheeled around and shot the cop, walked over to his body and shot him again, smiling.
    Some eyewitnesses described the shooter as wearing a white shirt, some said it was a white shirt with writing, and some identified it specifically as a white Batman shirt. Not one witness said the man in the yellow shirt pistol-whipped the vagrant or shot the cop.

    Several of Davis' friends testified -- without recantation -- that he was the one in a white shirt. Several eyewitnesses, both acquaintances and strangers, specifically identified Davis as the one who shot Officer MacPhail.

    Now the media claim that seven of the nine witnesses against Davis at trial have recanted.

    First of all, the state presented 34 witnesses against Davis -- not nine -- which should give you some idea of how punctilious the media are about their facts in death penalty cases.

    Among the witnesses who did not recant a word of their testimony against Davis were three members of the Air Force, who saw the shooting from their van in the Burger King drive-in lane. The airman who saw events clearly enough to positively identify Davis as the shooter explained on cross-examination, "You don't forget someone that stands over and shoots someone."

    Recanted testimony is the least believable evidence since it proves only that defense lawyers managed to pressure some witnesses to alter their testimony, conveniently after the trial has ended. Even criminal lobbyist Justice William Brennan ridiculed post-trial recantations.
    Three recantations were from friends of Davis, making minor or completely unbelievable modifications to their trial testimony. For example, one said he was no longer sure he saw Davis shoot the cop, even though he was five feet away at the time.

    His remaining testimony still implicated Davis.

    One alleged recantation, from the vagrant's girlfriend (since deceased), wasn't a recantation at all, but rather reiterated all relevant parts of her trial testimony, which included a direct identification of Davis as the shooter.

    Only two of the seven alleged "recantations" (out of 34 witnesses) actually recanted anything of value -- and those two affidavits were discounted by the court because Davis refused to allow the affiants to testify at the post-trial evidentiary hearing, even though one was seated right outside the courtroom, waiting to appear.

    The court specifically warned Davis that his refusal to call his only two genuinely recanting witnesses would make their affidavits worthless. But Davis still refused to call them -- suggesting, as the court said, that their lawyer-drafted affidavits would not have held up under cross-examination.

    With death penalty opponents so fixated on Davis' race -- he's black -- it ought to be noted that all the above witnesses are themselves African-American. The first man Davis shot in the car that night was African-American.

    I notice that the people so anxious to return this sociopathic cop-killer to the street don't live in his neighborhood.

    There's a reason more than a dozen courts have looked at Davis' case and refused to overturn his death sentence. He is as innocent as every other executed man since at least 1950, which is to say, guilty as hell.[/QUOTE]
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

  6. #6
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,277
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4154194]Or another question why is the killing of one type of citizen (police officer) or in one type of circumstances (hate crime) actually a worse type of murder than just normal everyday murder? If a man 1st degree murders his wife that's life in prison but a white man kills a black man for racial hate reasons he's gonna die. It's playing in the margins of morality. I don't see how one tragedy is worse than another tragedy. It's all very tragic. [/QUOTE]

    Anyone that has been divorced will be able to explain why the guy killing his wife get a lighter sentence.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4154197]I thought that was clear.

    I'm looking for thoughts and opinions and debate on the death penalty, on a day when that topic is all the news and controversy.[/QUOTE]

    Seemed you were race baiting a tinge...

    Regardless, we're forced to live in a society where there are individuals who simply don't respect the lives of others and will forcibly take what they want, including life itself...

    Child molesters, murderers, rapists, etc...

    All deserving of a quick exit from this world...

    I don't believe in God and I don't trust humanity...

    Kill the ones who can't live peacefully among the rest of us and be done with it.

    Not that difficult a concept...

  8. #8
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    LI
    Posts
    20,531
    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4154368]Seemed you were race baiting a tinge...

    Regardless, we're forced to live in a society where there are individuals who simply don't respect the lives of others and will forcibly take what they want, including life itself...

    Child molesters, murderers, rapists, etc...

    All deserving of a quick exit from this world...

    I don't believe in God and I don't trust humanity...

    Kill the ones who can't live peacefully among the rest of us and be done with it.

    Not that difficult a concept...[/QUOTE]

    agreed - break the societal contract, and you win a free trip to the electric chair. :yes:

  9. #9
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Westchester Co.
    Posts
    38,294
    oh boy

    [URL]http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/09/22/alec-baldwin-goes-nuts-twitter-after-davis-execution-attacks-cheney-r[/URL]

  10. #10
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    22,965
    [QUOTE=jetswin;4154463]oh boy

    [URL]http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/09/22/alec-baldwin-goes-nuts-twitter-after-davis-execution-attacks-cheney-r[/URL][/QUOTE]

    Interesting.

    All but 2 of the witnesses recanted their testimony.

    Weird.

  11. #11
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Westchester Co.
    Posts
    38,294
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4154468]Interesting.

    All but 2 of the witnesses recanted their testimony.

    Weird.[/QUOTE]
    I'm not commenting on the execution, just the mouth foaming.

  12. #12
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    22,965
    [QUOTE=jetswin;4154481]I'm not commenting on the execution, just the mouth foaming.[/QUOTE]

    Gotcha.

  13. #13
    Gotta love the all inclusive, non-violent, non-racist left's venom directed at Michelle Malkin.....

    [IMG]http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/main_photos/2011/September/Malkin1.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/main_photos/2011/September/Malkin2.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/main_photos/2011/September/Malkin2.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/thumbnail_photos/2011/September/Malkin3.jpg[/IMG]
    Frickin' hypocrites.......

  14. #14
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    22,965
    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4154497]Frickin' hypocrites.......[/QUOTE]

    At least they don't drag people to death behind their pick-up trucks, huh? :rolleyes:

  15. #15
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Westchester Co.
    Posts
    38,294
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4154507]At least they don't drag people to death behind their pick-up trucks, huh? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
    what does that even mean?

    seriously, you don't see the absurdity of the threats being leveled by those opposed to violence?

    lol

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4154197]I thought that was clear.

    I'm looking for thoughts and opinions and debate on the death penalty, on a day when that topic is all the news and controversy.[/QUOTE]

    I hate it, I think it's terrible policy.

    There's nothing more "big government" than a government sanctioned murder.

    I don't see how killing a man 20+ years after a crime somehow equates to justice either.

    On a related note, the second trial in that triple murder/rape/arson case in CT began this week. The first guy was already sentenced to death; the second guy on trial now wrote in his journal that he is an evil man, seems to relish in that fact, and is welcoming of the death penalty. That's justice?

    We need to revamp our penal system. Forget the death penalty. Throw the ****ers in a 10x5 hole with a dirt floor, a bucket, no natural light, and meager food served every 3 days. And they're not allowed to leave the hole, ever. That's how to treat these animals.

    Ironically, that would probably be considered a violation of rights.

  17. #17
    I really don't understand how liberals constantly defend the sc*m of the earth...no matter what the situation- terrorists, cop killers, etc..you all are the s*ck. This POS is guilty as hell....anybody see his rap sheet or priors?? I haven't, but i'd bet $$ he was a career criminal bf his night of mayhem- who the f*ck is Alec Baldwin? How about some sympathy for the dead police officer's family? 2 young kids left behind, without a dad? Troy Davis is human garbage...Plumber Khan bringing up "all but 2 recanted"..blah blah blah blah blah, shut the phuk up

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4154181]Seems a rather appropriate topic today.

    Last night, the Govt. killed two men. One was convicted of dragging a man behind a truck till he died. The other, of shooting a man, pistol whipping another, and then shooting and killing a police oficer.

    As even a brief perusal of th enews will show, one case, the white man who was part of the trio who dragged a black man to death in a clearly race-based murder, is getting little to no comment.

    The other, where a black man killed a white police officer, has the entire World in an uproar over his guilt, the sentence, and the very core legallity/rightiousness of the death penalty.

    So, how do you feel about the Death Penalty today?[/QUOTE]

    Apples and oranges. The 2 cases are very different. I suspect you already understand this but you wanted a neat little narrative to stir up some reverse racism chat.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=Tucker134;4154545]Plumber Khan bringing up "all but 2 recanted"..blah blah blah blah blah, shut the phuk up[/QUOTE]

    This small fact doesn't bother you? :confused:

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=pauliec;4154538]I don't see how killing a man 20+ years after a crime somehow equates to justice either.[/QUOTE]

    Then what would equate to Justice then?

    Say, some random kills your mother and father and five young sisters and skulls****s their dead bodies for a few weeks, then mails them back to you part by part (was that a horror movie plot? Saw 14 1/2: Return of the Son of the Uncle of Saw!)

    Eventually, he gets caught.

    Tell me Paulie, what would bring justice (Per wiki: a concept of moral rightness based on ethics, rationality, law, natural law, religion, fairness, or equity, along with the punishment of the breach of said ethics) as the outcome of said situation?

    [QUOTE=FF2;4154554]This small fact doesn't bother you? :confused:[/QUOTE]

    Doesn't bother me, when you look at it in it's totallity.

    Which do you find more plausible, that they lied under oath in the immediate aftermath of an event they witnesses (some as close as 5-10 feet away).....or that they lied (or convinced themselves they were wrong years later) after the fact, outside of court or oath, when their friend was already convicted and sentenced to die?

    Either way, they're a liar. Which situation has less to lose, less verification of their lie, and more to gain for having lied, would you say?

    In addition, looking at all the levels of our fine Court Justice System, State Govt. Justice Panels, and the Supreme Court (twice), who it should be reminded saw all the evidence and decided unanimously against stopping the execution, if one has any faith in our Govt, I can't see how this, the most thorough review by Govt. possible, could be wrong. If the Govt. is wrong on this...what else could they be wrong about?
    Last edited by Warfish; 09-22-2011 at 03:54 PM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us