Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 159

Thread: The Nation of Palestine, and the U.S. Effort to Stop their Independence

  1. #1

    The Nation of Palestine, and the U.S. Effort to Stop their Independence

    Another issue reaching a head this week, the Palestinian effort to achieve Statehood recognition by the U.N.

    It appears that the vast majority of the Nations represented in the U.N. suppport full Nationhood. It also appears that every nation ont he security council but one also supports it.

    The one is the United States and President Obama.

    How do you feel about this issue today? Should the U.S. stand alone on the security council and stop Palestinian statehood, and if so why (or why not)?

  2. #2
    They're avoiding negotiation with Israel...

    It's a power play... And they're exploiting the U.N to achieve it...

    Do you really think the U.N is going to placate these two states?

    I'm glad the President won't cave...

    He hasn't handled the situation well at all the last few years but he does need to stand pat and tell a fake state to suck it up and get back to the negotiation table...

  3. #3
    i dont really have an opinion about the issue of Palestinian independence

    but I will say this about the UN:

    that body takes alot of crap but we haven't had a world war since it was established. there might be proxy battles like Vietnam but I don't see a scenario where 1 permanent security council member fights another directly

    in fact this week China said it might bail out Italy... that's the world we live in... not the world where we have to build a 1000 stealth fighter jets to dogfight with China.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4154204]They're avoiding negotiation with Israel...[/quote]

    According to who?

    If one listens to liberals (and I do of late), they say the very first step for negotiation is an ened to the ongoing settlement of Israelis into Palestinian territory, something that has not stopped according to them.

    From their perspective, if teh very basic tenant of negotiation, a freeze of current disagreements, is impossible, why should they persue it further?

    Beyond that point, isn't it the job of the U.N. itself to arbitrate a disagreement such as this? Wouldn't the U.N. giving Statehood recognition to Palestine change the entire circusmtance, from a Nation occupying it's own territory, to one occupying another States territory, and hence fundamentally change teh negtotiation process and who has what leverage?

    [QUOTE]I'm glad the President won't cave...[/QUOTE]

    So you support President Obama's choice to not recognize a Palestinian State.

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4154215]i dont really have an opinion about the issue of Palestinian independence

    but I will say this about the UN:

    that body takes alot of crap but we haven't had a world war since it was established. there might be proxy battles like Vietnam but I don't see a scenario where 1 permanent security council member fights another directly

    in fact this week China said it might bail out Italy... that's the world we live in... not the world where we have to build a 1000 stealth fighter jets to dogfight with China.[/QUOTE]

    One could also say that we havent had a world war since the advent of nukes. Me thinks the nukes have alot more to do with it than the UN.

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4154255]One could also say that we havent had a world war since the advent of nukes. Me thinks the nukes have alot more to do with it than the UN.[/QUOTE]

    True... also throw in the world bank and the IMF... and the internet... etc. My point is i've seen people talking about disbanding the UN... having all these representatives in 1 building somewhere has some value.

  7. #7
    I'm sorry, I must have missed it--- when did Hamas recognize Israels right to exist? Yeah.
    Last edited by Frequent Flyer; 09-22-2011 at 01:23 PM.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=Frequent Flyer;4154272]I'm sorry, I must have missed it--- when did Hamas recognize Israels right to exist? Yeah.[/QUOTE]

    Did the United States recognize the Native American Nations right to exist when we declared independence? Since when it declaring another States right to exist part of legitimacy of lack therof of ones own Statehood?

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4154284]Did the United States recognize the Native American Nations right to exist when we declared independence? Since when it declaring another States right to exist part of legitimacy of lack therof of ones own Statehood?[/QUOTE]

    Bad analogy. Wow. :rolleyes:

    Was the UN around back in 1776? LMAO

    Hey, I can think of alot of groups of people in the world more deserving of their own country than Fakestinians.

    Hey, maybe the Kurds should submit a claim to statehood to the UN. Yeah, Turkey will go for that. Sure.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4154223]
    From their perspective, if teh very basic tenant of negotiation, a freeze of current disagreements, is impossible, why should they persue it further?[/quote]

    This is assuming Israel hasn't caved on certain issues. That's simply not the case...

    Palestinians are attempting an end around of talks because they want everything they feel they are entitled to...

    They're not after statehood... Please don't be fooled...

    [quote]Beyond that point, isn't it the job of the U.N. itself to arbitrate a disagreement such as this? Wouldn't the U.N. giving Statehood recognition to Palestine change the entire circusmtance, from a Nation occupying it's own territory, to one occupying another States territory, and hence fundamentally change teh negtotiation process and who has what leverage?[/quote]

    So you're saying that you are okay with Palestine having more leverage in the negotiation process... an example would be the right to Jerusalem?

    I'm confused...

    Why should anybody recognize a state that is made up of Jordanians and Egyptians and land that was lost in a battle that Israel won...

    Should we start bartering with Mexico to take back El Paso?



    [quote]So you support President Obama's choice to not recognize a Palestinian State.[/QUOTE]

    Certainly do.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=Frequent Flyer;4154297]Bad analogy. Wow. :rolleyes:[/quote]

    Bad why, because you don't like it?

    We all but exterminated those who resided on lands we wanted in a wholesale genocide.

    What ethical leg do we have to stand on in opposition to a people with territory who wish to be independant and self-ruling as a Nation?

    Or should our positions on such things be driven by the convenience of current-event politics over principles and ideals?

    You do realize, you're showing strong and dedicated support for President Obama on this issue, right?

    [quote]Hey, maybe the Kurds should submit a claim to statehood to the UN. Yeah, Turkey will go for that. Sure.[/QUOTE]

    I'd support their efforts, the Kurds more than most.

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4154307]This is assuming Israel hasn't caved on certain issues. That's simply not the case...[/quote]

    They havn't caved on building settlements in Palestinian territoru, have they?

    So lets see, neither side is giving in on the primary issue of the other. But again, if one listens to our liberal friends, they'll tell you (as they told me last night on the radio) that the Palestinians have in negotiations given in on almost everything, but Israel has chosen not to give in on settlements in Palestinian territory.

    [QUOTE]Palestinians are attempting an end around of talks because they want everything they feel they are entitled to...[/QUOTE]

    And thats wrong how? Is going through legal channels to get everything you feel you are entitled to now wrong, because thats a big leap.

    [QUOTE]So you're saying that you are okay with Palestine having more leverage in the negotiation process... an example would be the right to Jerusalem?[/QUOTE]

    I think the U.N. should od what it's supposed to be there for, to arbitrate the disagreement, come to a decision, and the World would back that decision and enforce it on the two Nations involved.

    Seems fair to me, we do it plenty of other places in the World.

    [QUOTE]Why should anybody recognize a state that is made up of Jordanians and Egyptians and land that was lost in a battle that Israel won...[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps the people you need to ask that question to is almost every Nation on Earth other than the United States and Israel.

    You tell me, why does almost the entire Wordl support it if it's so obvious (to you) it's wrong and not about statehood?

    [QUOTE]Should we start bartering with Mexico to take back El Paso?[/QUOTE]

    No, but if we follow the logic of the right on this, then the Native Americans would have an excellent case to retake all the lands they once owned historicly, and to control them as they see fit.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4154313]
    No, but if we follow the logic of the right on this, then the Native Americans would have an excellent case to retake all the lands they once owned historicly, and to control them as they see fit.[/QUOTE]

    Sorry I can't give your response just time at this moment...

    But to this point, they can pick up arms and certainly give it a shot...

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4154308]
    We all but exterminated those who resided on lands we wanted in a wholesale genocide. [/QUOTE]

    I'm not denying that.

    [QUOTE=Warfish;4154308]



    I'd support their efforts, the Kurds more than most.[/QUOTE]

    So maybe the world should be mad with Turkey and not the big bad bully, Israel.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4154308]You do realize, you're showing strong and dedicated support for President Obama on this issue, right?



    [/QUOTE]

    So what? Means nothing. We have completely different reasons.

  16. #16
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    22,837
    If a bunch of white people want to live surrounded by a group of brown people who want to blow them up...let them. It's pretty stupid in my book. Don't b*tch and moan when buses get blown up...y'all knew it was coming.

    That being said....Israel clearly holds the military advantage. Use it. Stop ***** footing around it. Blow them up before they blow you up. What is the rest of the world gonna do? Issue a decree saying "BAAAAD!!! BAD Israel for blowing those people up" and then quickly forget about it...because...who really gives a rat;s a** about a bunch of stupid f*cking idiots who are going to kill themselves over a strip of desert the size of New Jersey?

    Kill all the Palestinians and be done with it.




    BTW. Love the Hamas reference.

    Who funds Hamas?

    Saudi Arabia. They hold telethons on their state run TV station. Bue we still s*ck their d*cks.

    Who is the idiots?

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4154313]They havn't caved on building settlements in Palestinian territoru, have they?

    So lets see, neither side is giving in on the primary issue of the other. But again, if one listens to our liberal friends, they'll tell you (as they told me last night on the radio) that the Palestinians have in negotiations given in on almost everything, but Israel has chosen not to give in on settlements in Palestinian territory.[/quote]

    What are they caving on exactly? This is the first I've heard about it, to be honest...



    And thats wrong how? Is going through legal channels to get everything you feel you are entitled to now wrong, because thats a big leap.



    [quote]I think the U.N. should od what it's supposed to be there for, to arbitrate the disagreement, come to a decision, and the World would back that decision and enforce it on the two Nations involved.

    Seems fair to me, we do it plenty of other places in the World.[/quote]

    Grant Palestine statehood... The U.N. barters terms that neither side agrees on, things go back to normal, except Palestine feels justified to commit atrocities because they're a state, recognized by the U.N. and have rights to defend themselves from aggression...

    Oh boy. I can see it now...



    [quote]Perhaps the people you need to ask that question to is almost every Nation on Earth other than the United States and Israel.

    You tell me, why does almost the entire Wordl support it if it's so obvious (to you) it's wrong and not about statehood?

    [/QUOTE]

    Those other nations are seeking political gain...

    It's completely the opposite for us and Israel... We love them as an ally... Too much... Sure, they have some killer defense metrics and shiz we use but they're a liability to us in almost every political aspect...

    It's no wonder Turkish PM is parading around denouncing Israel, emboldening their adversaries... And for what? 8 dead Turks on a ship through the channel?

    Like he really cares about those 8 Turks...

    Military convoys through the channel moving forward?

    I just wish people were actually more concerned with who is really getting bullied around over there...

    The Israeli's aren't perfect.

    But I'd much rather be on their side than the side who'd rather see them extinct...

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4154204]They're avoiding negotiation with Israel...

    It's a power play... And they're exploiting the U.N to achieve it...

    [B]Do you really think the U.N is going to placate these two states?
    [/B]
    I'm glad the President won't cave...

    He hasn't handled the situation well at all the last few years but he does need to stand pat and tell a fake state to suck it up and get back to the negotiation table...[/QUOTE]

    If they are 2 States than what's the problem with UN recognition? Countries have unilateral and multilateral negiotations all the time at the same time. There are all kinds of diplomatic personal to negiotate at all kinds of levels when appropriate.

    By the way you use the term 2 States is it? Or is it all one State? If so is it Israel or Palestine? Was occupied Poland Germany?

    Not that I have a clear position on this one way or another I don't.

    I do feel that Obama speech on the ME in conjunction with this Veto is a disaster for the US in terms of Arab Public Opinion toward the US. I also think the French backstabbing Obama at the UN on this after we paid for their war to protect their oil interests in Libya is another case of our administration being tooled by one of our allies.


    It might be time for the US to step back all around the world for awhile.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4154353]
    But I'd much rather be on their side than the side who'd rather see them extinct...[/QUOTE]

    You're already covered---

    The side that wants to see them extinct declared war on you quite some time ago. ;)

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4154360]If they are 2 States than what's the problem with UN recognition? Countries have unilateral and multilateral negiotations all the time at the same time. There are all kinds of diplomatic personal to negiotate at all kinds of levels when appropriate.

    By the way you use the term 2 States is it? Or is it all one State? If so is it Israel or Palestine? Was occupied Poland Germany?[/quote]

    Right. For my own belief, I shouldn't even use the term...

    I only recognize one state and a bunch of Jordanians and Egyptians pretending to create their own state...

    [quote]I do feel that Obama speech on the ME in conjunction with this Veto is a disaster for the US in terms of Arab Public Opinion toward the US. I also think the French backstabbing Obama at the UN on this after we paid for their war to protect their oil interests in Libya is another case of our administration being tooled by one of our allies.[/quote]

    Agree completely. It seems we're getting played a lot lately...


    [quote]It might be time for the US to step back all around the world for awhile.[/QUOTE]

    Disagree in this instance... We can leave every hell hole, starving African village for all I care...

    While Israel has done some skeevy stuff to us in the past, they are truly a valuable ally, based on sheer intelligence and tactic alone...

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us