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Thread: "Can't Tackle!" (Hey Bart, Jets Ranked #31 Against The Run. Good Job.)

  1. #21
    [QUOTE=SAR I;4163774]Respectfully, 3 games into a 16 week season is 20% of the season.

    In baseball, I think you'd say that judging a team after its first 32 games is a pretty good indicator of where they're headed. Surely we can turn things around, but as it stands today it's bad enough we have all these offensive issues; to have these types of defensive issues is shocking. Were Sean Ellis and Jason Taylor that good?

    SAR I[/QUOTE]
    This isn't baseball.

    The raiders game appears to be a statistical anomaly. That was the worst performance by a Rex d against the run in his tenure here and its only week 3.

    My opinion is that it will even out over the course of the season.

  2. #22
    every team misses tackles, the Jets just happened to miss their tackles against a 6-2, 215 dude with outrageous game speed. they were fine against in the run in the first 2 games and pretty much all of last year. they will be fine.

  3. #23
    [QUOTE=IRONFAN 40;4163797]Leonard was brought here because he knew the system and it was new to our defense. He served his purpose and now safety needs to be upgraded. Smith also can go. But Rex loyalty again effects his judgement. You want to be elite well scheme can't be relied on solely. You also need talent at key positions. Revis is our only true talent on the field on defense.[/QUOTE]

    Leonard will make an excellent coach in the future. In the meantime I guess he will remain a liability on the field. The Jets defensive weaknesses are it's ultra slow linebackers and safeties. Harris is the best we have and he is very good, but he too is extremely slow. Scott makes some plays but has a tendency to overrun plays and miss tackles. He does bring value to the table, but at the same time can be the Jets biggest liability at LB. Frankly, I've seen enough of Thomas. And what can you say about Pace? Too costly to cut and just a hugely expensive disappointment. All the defensive planning in the world, no matter how great it may be, can not compensate for the lack of speed and talent at the end of the day.

  4. #24
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    so we are just gonna forget that Bart played like his ass was on fire the first 2 weeks...oh ok.....

  5. #25
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    Sunday's game contained an incredible failure of executing fundementals like setting the edge and making tackles when they had the opportunity.

    If it is because Leonard and Scott and some others games are on the downside, it will be a recurring problem and we will see it proetty clearly over the next couple of games. If they can correct their techniques the D may be fine.

    I agree though that we are seeing some of the downside of getting rid of a Sean Ellis on the d-line who was stout against the run and very sound in setting edges and holding them.

  6. #26
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    I usually enjoy your dry sense of humor SAR, but Scott's role isn't to lead the team in tackles. His job is to blast the lead blocker. Yes, he looked like a fool on the reverse, as did half the defense.

    Scott-Harris is arguably the best ILB tandem in the league.

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=fidelioion;4163780]I think Sean Ellis was an anchor for the defensive line. I always felt getting rid of him was an ego issue on Rex's part - Ellis didn't kiss Rex's ass so he was let go.[/QUOTE]

    Losing Ellis had nothing to do with the Raiders' big run production.

    DMC had 5 big runs against the Jets (28 ypc) while on the other 14 carries he had 2.1 ypc. Those 5 big runs came all to the outside, [I]away[/I] from the DLine.

    The Raiders attacked the LBs and Safeties and the Jets did a bad job of containment.

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;4163774]Respectfully, 3 games into a 16 week season is 20% of the season.

    In baseball, I think you'd say that judging a team after its first 32 games is a pretty good indicator of where they're headed. Surely we can turn things around, but as it stands today it's bad enough we have all these offensive issues; to have these types of defensive issues is shocking. Were Sean Ellis and Jason Taylor that good?

    SAR I[/QUOTE]

    But the problem with that is that a single game accounts for 10 games in baseball. That single game early on will dramatically skew the stats. The Jets had been in the top 10 in rushing defense the first 2 weeks. They give up 220+ rushing yards and are now 31st.

    And, conversally, a good rushing defensive performance early on will skew the stats downward.

    Finally, as a baseball fan you should know that a hot or cold streak will skew stats early on. In the first 32 games, a hitter has about 160 ABs. If he's a .300 hitter, that's 48 hits. If he had gotten only 8 less hits, he'd have a .250 average instead.

    Now, at the end of the season when he has 600 ABs and a .300 avg he'll have 180 hits. If he got 8 less hits his average would be .286.

    Thus, even with the baseball analogy, the first 3 weeks with 1 bad game would greatly skew stats.

  9. #29
    right now i'd say the raiders were a bad match up for the jet defense. i'm not sure how many other teams are. but don't forget this also falls on special teams and the offense. what if cromartie didn't muff the kickoff? what if schitty called plays that worked or exploited what the raider defense was doing in the second half.

    the re is no doubt that some jet players need upgrading. every team has them and some of those players will come up big in certain games and then fail in others. so trying to blame scott and/or leonard or saying they needed to keep ellis is foolish. by the way how's ellis doing with the patsies? not.

  10. #30
    [QUOTE=Piper;4163895][B]Sunday's game contained an incredible failure of executing fundementals like setting the edge and making tackles when they had the opportunity.[/B]

    If it is because Leonard and Scott and some others games are on the downside, it will be a recurring problem and we will see it proetty clearly over the next couple of games. If they can correct their techniques the D may be fine.

    I agree though that we are seeing some of the downside of getting rid of a Sean Ellis on the d-line who was stout against the run and very sound in setting edges and holding them.[/QUOTE]

    Exactly correct. I also think there was either a big miscommunication or a very poor defensive play call on the long McFadden run. We had no OLB or S on the edge at the point of attack and there was no chance for the DE to set that edge given the defensive alignment.

    The defensive issues against the run Sunday are very correctable and I trust Rex and Pettine will see to it they're fixed this week. It's just a matter of doing the small things right - there's really no need to panic.
    Last edited by My.Favorite.Martin; 09-28-2011 at 11:39 AM.

  11. #31
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    not for nothing but MJD and McFadden are two of the top RBs in the league. It would had been nice to stop them, but sometimes the other team is going to make plays.

  12. #32
    The week prior the team held MJD to 80 yards.

    McFadden broke a 70 yard run with blatant holding and then the raiders had two big trick plays that we ***ed up on.

    Other than those plays, the Jets run D was fairly stout against one of the top rushers in the leauge.

    By then end of the season the Jets will have a top 3 rushing defense.

  13. #33
    [QUOTE=carlito1171;4163867]so we are just gonna forget that Bart played like his ass was on fire the first 2 weeks...oh ok.....[/QUOTE]

    Yes, exactly.

    Because the same can be said for the 2009 and 2010 postseasons. Bart shows up big when he wants to and takes the day off when he doesn't. Whatever emotion and fire Bart demonstrated after the Colts and Patriots victories was left on the bus in Pittsburgh.

    Not good enough. Ray Lewis didn't have an 'off' switch in 2000, Jonathan Vilma didn't in 2009, Clay Matthews didn't in 2010. It's unacceptable that our defensive leader is a huge no-show in AFC Championship Games and gimmies against the leagues weaklings. This has been going on since he got here, not a new phenomenon.

    SAR I

  14. #34
    [QUOTE=SAR I;4164054]Yes, exactly.

    Because the same can be said for the 2009 and 2010 postseasons. Bart shows up big when he wants to and takes the day off when he doesn't. Whatever emotion and fire Bart demonstrated after the Colts and Patriots victories was left on the bus in Pittsburgh.

    Not good enough. Ray Lewis didn't have an 'off' switch in 2000, Jonathan Vilma didn't in 2009, Clay Matthews didn't in 2010. It's unacceptable that our defensive leader is a huge no-show in AFC Championship Games and gimmies against the leagues weaklings. This has been going on since he got here, not a new phenomenon.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]

    Why is bart scott responsible for any and all defensive failure in your mind? The '09 afccg was on our depleted secondaryfor the most part. Last year bart was poor but so were a number of jets at tackling.

    Most of the rushing yards surrendered against the raiders was because of failure to set the edge which isn't barts responsibility the overwhelming majority of the time.

    If you want to point the finger at one player for Sunday look no further than the most overrated cornerback in the world.

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=Gangrene;4163721]Jim Leonard's whiff on McFadden's breakaway run was embarrassing but it happens regularly to people trying to tackle McFadden in the open field.
    In a different sport - growing up in a rugby-playing country we were taught to tackle low, wrapping up with both hands. Once you got the technique down it always worked. However I'd imagine tackling someone like McFadden makes it a lot harder than it looks.[/QUOTE]
    McFadden looks lean, but he's a little bigger than Herschel Walker; just a s fast and powerful. Raiders look very smart for sticking with him through the early years with his foot problems etc.

    I couldn't hear for 24 hours after the game; after that run the noise level was insane. I have NEVER heard anything like that for such a sustained time. Every time the JEts O touched the ball after that, the noise level jumped up. My ears were ready to bleed.

  16. #36
    [QUOTE=My.Favorite.Martin;4164126]Why is bart scott responsible for any and all defensive failure in your mind? The '09 afccg was on our depleted secondaryfor the most part. Last year bart was poor but so were a number of jets at tackling.

    Most of the rushing yards surrendered against the raiders was because of failure to set the edge which isn't barts responsibility the overwhelming majority of the time.

    If you want to point the finger at one player for Sunday look no further than the most overrated cornerback in the world.[/QUOTE]

    Fair points.

    To me, Bart Scott is the onfield version of Rex, what he stands for, his take-no-sh*t attitude, his work ethic, etc. Being one of the Baltimore guys, recruited at 12:01am, the "I gotta have him" guy for Rex, all that stuff creates and expectation that Bart is our Ray Lewis.

    And he's not. So whether its tackling, or getting the guys ready to play, or whatever, when the D goes bad I turn to Bart first. I think Rex does, too.

    SAR I

  17. #37
    [QUOTE=RaoulDuke;4163898]I usually enjoy your dry sense of humor SAR, but Scott's role isn't to lead the team in tackles. His job is to blast the lead blocker. Yes, he looked like a fool on the reverse, as did half the defense.

    Scott-Harris is arguably the best ILB tandem in the league.[/QUOTE]

    If you look at our last 4 games, the Jets are playing at a 1-3 level with only Jacksonville's horrible QB throwing us a bone making that one win easy.

    Pittsburgh - defense annihilated.

    Dallas - defense annihilated.

    Oakland - defense annihilated.

    I don't like the pattern.

    SAR I

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;4164213]If you look at our last 4 games, the Jets are playing at a 1-3 level with only Jacksonville's horrible QB throwing us a bone making that one win easy.

    Pittsburgh - defense annihilated.

    Dallas - defense annihilated.

    Oakland - defense annihilated.

    I don't like the pattern.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]
    You're right as rain. Some insightful people watching the Jets say the defense is in for a long year. THe D has not shown itself yet; what's worse is with Woody retiring, our Ground and Pound is likely not going to materialize for a while.

    Oh boy.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=rextilleon;4163804]Finally people are realizing that Lenarod is finished.[/QUOTE]

    His tackle @ the 1 yrd, pretty much helped us win against Dallas...

  20. #40
    [QUOTE=SAR I;4164213]If you look at our last 4 games, the Jets are playing at a 1-3 level with only Jacksonville's horrible QB throwing us a bone making that one win easy.

    Pittsburgh - defense annihilated.

    Dallas - defense annihilated.

    Oakland - defense annihilated.

    I don't like the pattern.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]

    What pattern? I say let the season play out. If they suck we will find out. Our defense reminded of last years game against the Bears. I thought the Raiders field was in very bad condition, and may have put the Jets defense at a disadvantage.

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