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Thread: "Can't Tackle!" (Hey Bart, Jets Ranked #31 Against The Run. Good Job.)

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;4164213]If you look at our last 4 games, the Jets are playing at a 1-3 level with only Jacksonville's horrible QB throwing us a bone making that one win easy.

    Pittsburgh - defense annihilated.

    Dallas - defense annihilated.

    Oakland - defense annihilated.

    I don't like the pattern.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]

    But what about the D against the Pats & Colts in the postseason? That makes it 3-3 for the D, right?

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;4164213]If you look at our last 4 games, the Jets are playing at a 1-3 level with only Jacksonville's horrible QB throwing us a bone making that one win easy.

    Pittsburgh - defense annihilated.

    Dallas - defense annihilated.

    Oakland - defense annihilated.

    I don't like the pattern.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]


    I don't like the pattern either, but I think it needs more time to prove - From what I've seen so far this year - The Jets D isn't the only D having problems, in fact - pretty much every team is having defensive problems right now.

    Scores are up so far this year.

    I've noticed this trend right from day 1 GB vs NO - There are no dominant looking Ds right now. Its like the Lockout has given Offenses somewhat of a n edge so far, not sure why (and scary because if our O has and edge right now I don't want to see what happens when Ds start to catch up)

    I think in time this season, things will start to go back to normal a bit more once Ds start to "gel" a bit more. There is def something going on with all NFL Ds right now though, none of them look very good so far.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=SMC;4164270]But what about the D against the Pats & Colts in the postseason? That makes it 3-3 for the D, right?[/QUOTE]

    Don't misunderstand- our D has been fantastic overall since Rex arrived.

    However...

    It seems to collapse when:

    a) We play an inferior team.

    b) We're coming off a bye or a long break.

    c) After we've had a few big wins in a row.

    I'm not sure why our defense relaxes and lets-down so often. So, yes, the D is 3-3 in our last 6. But that's not the point. The point is to in the division we need consistency every week.

    A defense that can't get up for the AFC Championship Game? Makes no sense, other than they smothered them a month earlier and decided to let-down again. It's maddening.

    SAR I

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;4164319]Don't misunderstand- our D has been fantastic overall since Rex arrived.

    However...

    It seems to collapse when:

    a) We play an inferior team.

    b) We're coming off a bye or a long break.

    c) After we've had a few big wins in a row.

    I'm not sure why our defense relaxes and lets-down so often. So, yes, the D is 3-3 in our last 6. But that's not the point. The point is to in the division we need consistency every week.

    A defense that can't get up for the AFC Championship Game? Makes no sense, other than they smothered them a month earlier and decided to let-down again. It's maddening.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]

    Overall, we agree (except with you counting the Dallas game as a loss because only real wins and not moral losses count for me).

    There were alarming defensive breakdowns last year that were masked by Sanchez' 4th quarter comebacks.

    We all remember the game winning TD drive against the Texans, but that happened because the D coughed up the lead late in the game.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=frankiepapa;4163724]Speaking of tackling...very impressed by the job Kyle Wilson has been doing tackling...technique is very sound...you can tell he has worked hard during the offseason[/QUOTE]

    Good to hear! Big KW fan. Could he start opposite Revis this sunday, thought I read Cro could be down.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=SMC;4164341]Overall, we agree (except with you counting the Dallas game as a loss because only real wins and not moral losses count for me).

    There were alarming defensive breakdowns last year that were masked by Sanchez' 4th quarter comebacks.

    We all remember the game winning TD drive against the Texans, but that happened because the D coughed up the lead late in the game.[/QUOTE]

    Right, and that's ultimately the story of these past two years regarding these "unnecessarily close games to inferior opponents". In 2009 we didn't know how to come back to steal a victory where in 2010 Sanchez solved that.

    In the past calendar year, here are the games that our D put us in a bind in the 4th quarter against a team we should have been crushing:

    [B]@ Denver[/B] - down 20-10 in the 4th quarter, miracle Holmes catch at the gun.

    [B]@ Detroit[/B] - down 20-10 in the 4th quarter, 2 scores in last 3 minutes ties it.

    [B]@ Cleveland[/B] - defense blows 7 point lead with seconds remaining, Holmes in OT.

    [B]Houston[/B] - Jets 20-7 4th quarter lead evaporates as Texans put up 20, Holmes in OT.

    [B]Dallas[/B] - down 24-10 in the 4th quarter, miracle blocked punt and INT.

    [B]@ Oakland[/B] - Jets 17-7 lead gone after 24-0 Raiders run.

    ...and here are the games against superior opponents where the same thing happened:

    [B]@ New England[/B] - Jets lose 45-3 and it wasn't even that close.

    [B]@ Chicago[/B] - Jets 24-17 lead in flames as D surrenders 21 in third quarter.

    [B]@ Pittsburgh[/B] - Jets have no chance at Super Bowl as Jets get in 24-0 hole, D surrenders 17 unanswered on long, time-killing ground drives.

    We've played 17 games since the Denver miracle. In 9 of those games the D was obliterated. Miracles won 7 of those games, ran out of luck in the other 2.

    If you look at the big picture, you see lots of W's and Championship Game appearances. If you dig a little deeper, you see defensive flaws. Big ones.

    SAR I
    Last edited by SAR I; 09-28-2011 at 04:02 PM.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;4164213]If you look at our last 4 games, the Jets are playing at a 1-3 level with only Jacksonville's horrible QB throwing us a bone making that one win easy.

    Pittsburgh - defense annihilated.

    Dallas - defense annihilated.

    Oakland - defense annihilated.

    I don't like the pattern.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]

    How was defense annhilated against Dallas?

    Defense was responsible for 17 points in that game, can't blame defense for giving up a TD after Sanchez pick and return put Dallas on the 1. And defense forced 2 turnovers (OK, accepted 2 turnovers when Romo gave them to them). I'd love to hold every team to single digits, but this is the NFL, and Dallas has a pretty good offense, 3 top receivers.

    So far this year Jets D has played one pretty good game, one dominant game, and one bad game. They'll have a bad game or two every season, and that's all I think the Oakland game was. It happens, even to good defenses.

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=jpoppy7;4164570]How was defense annhilated against Dallas?

    Defense was responsible for 17 points in that game, can't blame defense for giving up a TD after Sanchez pick and return put Dallas on the 1. And defense forced 2 turnovers (OK, accepted 2 turnovers when Romo gave them to them). I'd love to hold every team to single digits, but this is the NFL, and Dallas has a pretty good offense, 3 top receivers.

    So far this year Jets D has played one pretty good game, one dominant game, and one bad game. They'll have a bad game or two every season, and that's all I think the Oakland game was. It happens, even to good defenses.[/QUOTE]

    Dallas had us down 24-10 in the 4th quarter. You want me to disregard the Sanchez pick, fine. We were still down by 7 in the 4th quarter against a team we should have been wiping the floor with.

    This was also Week 1 after a work-stopped preseason where most experts thought that "teams that have been together for many years with the same coaching staff and personnel would have a distinct advantage over those who have been disrupted" and we let a new-look Cowboy team with a new HC and a new DC put us in an embarrassing situation that we only got out of because of Mike Westhoff's brilliance and Tony Romo's inetptitude.

    And please note that I didn't reach for the Packers and Dolphins games last year, not claiming that giving up 9 to Green Bay or 10 to Miami is some criminal defensive act. I'm being realistic here. The D got stomped on by Dallas. Long drives, quick drives, tons of passing, opening drive face-shove. That was not a great defensive effort.

    SAR I
    Last edited by SAR I; 09-28-2011 at 04:38 PM.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;4164586]Dallas had us down 24-10 in the 4th quarter. You want me to disregard the Sanchez pick, fine. We were still down by 7 in the 4th quarter against a team we should have been wiping the floor with.

    This was also Week 1 after a work-stopped preseason where most experts thought that "teams that have been together for many years with the same coaching staff and personnel would have a distinct advantage over those who have been disrupted" and we let a new-look Cowboy team with a new HC and a new DC put us in an embarrassing situation that we only got out of because of Mike Westhoff's brilliance and Tony Romo's inetptitude.

    And please note that I didn't reach for the Packers and Dolphins games last year, not claiming that giving up 9 to Green Bay or 10 to Miami is some criminal defensive act. I'm being realistic here. The D got stomped on by Dallas. Long drives, quick drives, tons of passing, opening drive face-shove. That was not a great defensive effort.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]

    I agree team as a whole did not play well against Dallas. Didn't play terribly either.

    But I put that more on an offense that only scored 17 points (the offense didn't block the punt or set up the final FG) against a Dallas team that had one of worst defenses the year before, and was missing one starting CB and lost other CBs during the game.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;4164586]Dallas had us down 24-10 in the 4th quarter. You want me to disregard the Sanchez pick, fine. We were still down by 7 in the 4th quarter against a team we should have been wiping the floor with.

    This was also Week 1 after a work-stopped preseason where most experts thought that "teams that have been together for many years with the same coaching staff and personnel would have a distinct advantage over those who have been disrupted" and we let a new-look Cowboy team with a new HC and a new DC put us in an embarrassing situation that we only got out of because of Mike Westhoff's brilliance and Tony Romo's inetptitude.

    And please note that I didn't reach for the Packers and Dolphins games last year, not claiming that giving up 9 to Green Bay or 10 to Miami is some criminal defensive act. I'm being realistic here. The D got stomped on by Dallas. Long drives, quick drives, tons of passing, opening drive face-shove. That was not a great defensive effort.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]

    Two things:
    1) How differently would this defense be if we signed Ray Lewis instead of Bart Scott? (And I like Bart)
    2) Do we have ANY vocal leaders on defense???? Remember, Rex's issue last year was that we have no leadership. See #1 above.

  11. #51
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    Yeah Wilson will start opposite Revis if Cro can't play

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=Gangrene;4163721]Jim Leonard's whiff on McFadden's breakaway run was embarrassing but it happens regularly to people trying to tackle McFadden in the open field.
    In a different sport - growing up in a rugby-playing country we were taught to tackle low, wrapping up with both hands. Once you got the technique down it always worked. However I'd imagine tackling someone like McFadden makes it a lot harder than it looks.[/QUOTE]

    The Leonhard miss on the 70 yard run was indeed embarrassing. That was ugly.

  13. #53
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    wait a second. by your own game listing you can't lay it all on the defense. in the down by 20-10 what exactly was the offense doing that they only scored 10 points at those junctures? true enough the defense is touted and the kool aid says they are a shutdown defense but in reality they aren't bad and better than most. the simple fact is no defense is immune from being torched by a determined offense and even a 2 score lead with a quarter left isn't safe. if and when the jets do get another 2 score lead in the 4th i would love to see the offense ice the game instead of a couple of 3 and outs.

    [QUOTE=SAR I;4164548]Right, and that's ultimately the story of these past two years regarding these "unnecessarily close games to inferior opponents". In 2009 we didn't know how to come back to steal a victory where in 2010 Sanchez solved that.

    In the past calendar year, here are the games that our D put us in a bind in the 4th quarter against a team we should have been crushing:

    [B]@ Denver[/B] - down 20-10 in the 4th quarter, miracle Holmes catch at the gun.

    [B]@ Detroit[/B] - down 20-10 in the 4th quarter, 2 scores in last 3 minutes ties it.

    [B]@ Cleveland[/B] - defense blows 7 point lead with seconds remaining, Holmes in OT.

    [B]Houston[/B] - Jets 20-7 4th quarter lead evaporates as Texans put up 20, Holmes in OT.

    [B]Dallas[/B] - down 24-10 in the 4th quarter, miracle blocked punt and INT.

    [B]@ Oakland[/B] - Jets 17-7 lead gone after 24-0 Raiders run.

    ...and here are the games against superior opponents where the same thing happened:

    [B]@ New England[/B] - Jets lose 45-3 and it wasn't even that close.

    [B]@ Chicago[/B] - Jets 24-17 lead in flames as D surrenders 21 in third quarter.

    [B]@ Pittsburgh[/B] - Jets have no chance at Super Bowl as Jets get in 24-0 hole, D surrenders 17 unanswered on long, time-killing ground drives.

    We've played 17 games since the Denver miracle. In 9 of those games the D was obliterated. Miracles won 7 of those games, ran out of luck in the other 2.

    If you look at the big picture, you see lots of W's and Championship Game appearances. If you dig a little deeper, you see defensive flaws. Big ones.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE=escamoter2;4164661]Two things:
    1) How differently would this defense be if we signed Ray Lewis instead of Bart Scott? (And I like Bart)
    2) Do we have ANY vocal leaders on defense???? Remember, Rex's issue last year was that we have no leadership. See #1 above.[/QUOTE]

    Excellent (and upsetting) points.

    Ray Lewis was there for the taking. He's a better player and he's the best leader in the game. The Jets taking Bart Scott over Ray Lewis would be like the Cubs choosing David Wright over Derek Jeter. Stupid.

    SAR I

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=sameoldjets;4164924]wait a second. by your own game listing you can't lay it all on the defense. in the down by 20-10 what exactly was the offense doing that they only scored 10 points at those junctures? true enough the defense is touted and the kool aid says they are a shutdown defense but in reality they aren't bad and better than most.[/QUOTE]

    I agree, but fundamentally, if you're playing a team like the 4-12 Broncos or the 5-11 Browns a defense that's AFC Championship Game caliber has no business giving up 24 points to each, being behind in the 4th quarter, and having us pray that the offense can muster up a miracle comeback.

    SAR I

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=sameoldjets;4164924] the simple fact is no defense is immune from being torched by a determined offense and even a 2 score lead with a quarter left isn't safe. if and when the jets do get another 2 score lead in the 4th i would love to see the offense ice the game instead of a couple of 3 and outs.[/QUOTE]

    And one more important point:

    The Jets committed themselves to being a DEFENSE-first team back when they tapped Mangini and ultimately Ryan. This team is built to shut down the opponent, not to outscore them in a shootout.

    The financial investment, the time investment, all the weekly sound bytes, it's all about the DEFENSE.

    So with the lesser investment in finances, time, drafting, and focus on our offense, it's completely expected that we're going to be a low scoring team. Lots of ways to win a Super Bowl, we modeled ourselves after the '85 Bears and the '00 Ravens, the 2 of the 45 that did it the hard way.

    So when the Jets lose a frustrating game on offense, you get upset but you understand it. But when the Jets lose an embarassing game on defense, you get more upset because you don't understand it.

    Yes, the defense has carried us the past two years. That doesn't mean they can take the third year off. We need them to improve, not deteriorate. We're supposed to be Super Bowl favorites. Right now, our defense is awful.

    SAR I

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;4165050]Excellent (and upsetting) points.

    Ray Lewis was there for the taking. He's a better player and he's the best leader in the game. The Jets taking Bart Scott over Ray Lewis would be like the Cubs choosing David Wright over Derek Jeter. Stupid.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]

    Ray Lewis doesn't play the position Bart Scott does. The choice would have been Ray Lewis or David Harris. The comparison is an insult to Ray Lewis.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;4164586]Dallas had us down 24-10 in the 4th quarter. You want me to disregard the Sanchez pick, fine. We were still down by 7 in the 4th quarter against a team we should have been wiping the floor with.

    This was also Week 1 after a work-stopped preseason where most experts thought that "teams that have been together for many years with the same coaching staff and personnel would have a distinct advantage over those who have been disrupted" and we let a new-look Cowboy team with a new HC and a new DC put us in an embarrassing situation that we only got out of because of Mike Westhoff's brilliance and Tony Romo's inetptitude.

    And please note that I didn't reach for the Packers and Dolphins games last year, not claiming that giving up 9 to Green Bay or 10 to Miami is some criminal defensive act. I'm being realistic here. The D got stomped on by Dallas. Long drives, quick drives, tons of passing, opening drive face-shove. That was not a great defensive effort.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]
    Why do you assume the Jets should have been wiping the floor with Dallas? They have a ton of talent on offense. They are better than us at pretty much every skill position on offense.
    Tony Romo > Mark Sanchez
    Dez Bryant > Santonio Holmes (some may debate this, but my opinion is he's at least more talented)
    Miles Austin > Plaxico Burress
    Jason Witten > Dustin Keller
    Felix Jones > Shonn Greene (some may debate this, but my opinion is he's at least more talented)

    Sometimes talented offenses will score points on us. Get over it.

  19. #59
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    If you haven't noticed, offenses rule the league. NFL offenses (for most teams) are waaaaay ahead of defensive strategies at the moment. Yes the Jets D has taken some lumps over the past 10 games, but so has every defense in the NFL.

  20. #60
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;4165050]
    Ray Lewis was there for the taking. [/QUOTE]

    LOL.

    All we had to do was ask. :rolleyes:

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