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Thread: Anwar al-Awlaki Killed By US Drone Strike

  1. #1

    Anwar al-Awlaki Killed By US Drone Strike

    An interesting milestone in the "War of Terror" today. The US claims that they killed Anwar al-Awlaki in a drone strike in Yemen. al-Awlaki is claimed to be the most dangerous man around after the death of Bin Laden.

    It does raise some potential questions, however.

    He was a U.S. Citizen, and was killed without a trial, right to defence/council, or appeal. In effect, the U.S. deemed him (by millitary fiat) an enemy combatant, denied him all rights under the geneva convention, and proceeded to assassinate him, along with his allies and (likely) a number of innocents in the area of the strike. This may be the first time a U.S. President has publicly ordered and then carried out an assassination of a U.S. Citizen without any U.S. court proceedings or findings of guilt against him.

    It was widely and loudly claimed that terrorism was a criminal issue by critics of previous administration, and that terrorists still deserve all the rights of any other criminal, including trials, lawyers, arrest, humane treatment when captured, etc. In this case, although his location was known, no effort was made to capture him, but instead he was killed outright.

    Given the many, many conversations we've had here since 9/11 on the issue of terrorism, rights, Govt. abuse/overreach, and the best ways to fight terrorism, I can see clearly that this could cause conflict of opinion amongst many of our anti-death penalty and anti-Bush Administration Policy, and pro-human rights posters.

    How do you feel today about this U.S. success in this endeavor, and teh circumstances that led to it? Is it a victory in the War on terror? Or a loss by those who promote human rights for all and terrorism as a primarily criminal problem, unsuitable for millitary answer?
    Last edited by Warfish; 09-30-2011 at 09:45 AM.

  2. #2
    Victory for the war on terror. Good work, Barry.

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=pauliec;4166600]Victory for the war on terror. Good work, Barry.[/QUOTE]

    +1

  4. #4
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    Impeach Obama, Shredder of our Constitution. :yes:

    He murdered a citizen. Who will be safe from him?!

  5. #5
    it's an interesting question but the "terrorism as criminal activity" ship has sailed.

    We fight terrorism with international war, whether anyone agrees with it or not.

    if we want to explore the idea for debate purposes, it could be argued that his citizen miranda rights don't really extend to this situation. It's self defense like when a cop shoots a dude with a gun pointed at him. They don't go to a grand jury while in the middle of a shootout.

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4166621]i
    if we want to explore the idea for debate purposes, it could be argued that his citizen miranda rights don't really extend to this situation. It's self defense like when a cop shoots a dude with a gun pointed at him. They don't go to a grand jury while in the middle of a shootout.[/QUOTE]

    I didn't read the thread but you're definitely NOT for Cheney being tried in say, London as a war criminal then, correct?

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4166621]it's an interesting question but the "terrorism as criminal activity" ship has sailed.

    We fight terrorism with international war, whether anyone agrees with it or not.

    if we want to explore the idea for debate purposes, it could be argued that his citizen miranda rights don't really extend to this situation. It's self defense like when a cop shoots a dude with a gun pointed at him. They don't go to a grand jury while in the middle of a shootout.[/QUOTE]

    I don't recall you being so philosophical about this policy when Bush was prez.

    Tha't probably on me though LOL

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4166625]I didn't read the thread but you're definitely NOT for Cheney being tried in say, London as a war criminal then, correct?[/QUOTE]

    I am not for it for the same reason I dont want the Patriots kicked out of the NFL for spygate. it cheapens the Lombardi Trophy that I want the Jets to win one day. Similarly, prosecuting Cheney hurts the office.

    I can call the Pats cheaters and I can call Cheney a war criminal but I don't actually want the consequences of that. I'd rather it all be swept under the rug (for the greater good). But both situations were travesties.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Piper;4166629]I don't recall you being so philosophical about this policy when Bush was prez.

    Tha't probably on me though LOL[/QUOTE]

    You probably don't recall people calling me a commie either but that **** happened too.

    Just to be clear my opposition to Bush policies was that they were dumb and doomed to fail. I am not anti war I am anti-dumb war. I don't want to see our boys put in situations like Vietnam that are unwinnable. I don't mind drone strikes or other activities that actually work, consume 0 American lives, and don't require 100,000 infantry being sent 4000 miles away.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4166631]
    I can call the Pats cheaters and I can call Cheney a war criminal but I don't actually want the consequences of that. I'd rather it all be swept under the rug (for the greater good). But both situations were travesties.[/QUOTE]

    Okay, so Obama is killing civilians in countries we haven't 'declared war' upon, (i.e. Pakistan, Yemen, Syria, etc...)

    Is he a war criminal?

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;4166600]Victory for the war on terror. Good work, Barry.[/QUOTE]

    Now watch...he'll take credit for creating a job opening. :D

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4166637]You probably don't recall people calling me a commie either but that **** happened too.

    Just to be clear my opposition to Bush policies was that they were dumb and doomed to fail. I am not anti war I am anti-dumb war. I don't want to see our boys put in situations like Vietnam that are unwinnable. I don't mind drone strikes or other activities that actually work, consume 0 American lives, and don't require 100,000 infantry being sent 4000 miles away.[/QUOTE]

    I am sure those drone strikes would be spot on if there were no boots on the ground.:eek: Unfortunately the video game version of war is a fantasy that is usually left to kids around 12.

    And 10 years without another 9/11 tells me that this was not a wasted effort. An opinion confirmed to me by the many servicemen and women I have met(many who were injured) who believe very deeply in what they are doing.

    I am not his biggest fan but the only 'anti' thing you are is anti-Bush.

    Obama has continued more of Bush's policies than he has changed, largley I believe, because he has no idea how to fix anything and is politically savvy enough to know how easy it is keep blaming Bush 3 years later.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Phoenixx;4166645]Now watch...he'll take credit for creating a job opening. :D[/QUOTE]

    LOL, very good

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4166637] I don't want to see our boys put in situations like Vietnam that are unwinnable.[/QUOTE]

    okay, this just canNOT go without comment. Vietnam was eminently winnable by the United States bit -- unfortunately the disgraceful anti-American actions of liberal democrats ensured that we would not and could not do so. You guys can try to rewrite history all you want, but unfortunately for you not everyone is ignorant to reality.

    And yes, I did say Anti-American.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=Piper;4166667]I am sure those drone strikes would be spot on if there were no boots on the ground.:eek: [/QUOTE]

    there are no boots on the ground in yemen. there are probably CIA sandals on the ground.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4166643]Okay, so Obama is killing civilians in countries we haven't 'declared war' upon, (i.e. Pakistan, Yemen, Syria, etc...)

    Is he a war criminal?[/QUOTE]

    I honestly don't know. What law does that violate?

    My problem with Cheney was the torture. We signed treatys not to do it, and then we did it anyway. It opens up our own troops for torture if/when they get captured. and it doesn't actually work. the whole thing was misguided, embarrassing chapter in US history.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4166691]I honestly don't know. What law does that violate?
    [/QUOTE]

    For starters...

    In terms of the two recent high profile assassinations Obama committed (which I agree with)...

    [quote]willfully depriving someone of the right to a fair trial if accused of a war crime[/quote]

    But if you agree with the recent U.S and Israeli positions of 'targeted killings'... Then you need not worry about their circumvention of the Geneva Convention...

    However, what led to Cheney and Bush being cited as war criminals was the very same attitude and them doing what they felt was necessary to uphold the safety of American citizens at home and abroad...

    You can't have it one way or the other...

    You can have it. Or you can't.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4166691] It opens up our own troops for torture if/when they get captured.[/QUOTE]

    Because our enemies always play by the rules, and if they don't its our fault?


    [QUOTE=bitonti;4166691] . and it doesn't actually work. [/QUOTE]

    The Big Lie: repeat over and over till its accepted as fact. :rolleyes:

  19. #19
    If in our celebration of the death of this POS if we don't feel a chill to our very core at what we are unleashing we simply don't get it.

    None military personal operating video games thousands of miles away from their targets are killing suspected enemies and civilians alike with no oversight in countries we aren't at war with.

    The drone operations against enemy combatants in the field carried out by military in the war field is one thing. This is something entirely new.

    The same private contractors and ex-military who operate many of these drone programs are joining foreign security forces attached to foreign dictators.

    We should be very afraid.

    Worth a read.

    [url]http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/26/091026fa_fact_mayer[/url]
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 09-30-2011 at 11:44 AM.

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=shakin318;4166687]okay, this just canNOT go without comment. Vietnam was eminently winnable by the United States bit -- unfortunately the disgraceful anti-American actions of liberal democrats ensured that we would not and could not do so. You guys can try to rewrite history all you want, but unfortunately for you not everyone is ignorant to reality.

    And yes, I did say Anti-American.[/QUOTE]

    Vietnam was stopped because if the conflict continued the rich white kids would start getting drafted and we all know that can't happen. :yes:

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