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Thread: ESPN Films: Catching Hell

  1. #1
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    ESPN Films: Catching Hell

    Anyone watch this about Bartman and the Cubs.

    Friggin brilliant

  2. #2
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    [QUOTE=FF2®;4167326]Anyone watch this about Bartman and the Cubs.

    Friggin brilliant[/QUOTE]

    Yes... crazy what this kid has been through. We have all had that moment in our life where we made a decision or did somethin, said something we regret and we paid a price.

    Well......this eclipses any of that. Didn't realize how young he was and the support he got from his little league team says it all to me.

    The Bill Buckner comp wasn't , IMO, needed. Buckner was a player. You chowds crucified him.

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    the footage from inside wrigley as the cubs were melting down was riveting, especially the scene of security trying to escort bartman to safety. it was too long and overwrought though. the buckner parallel was overplayed, as was the part about the sermon on scapegoating. amazing that moises alou still fails to acknowledge the trouble he caused that poor guy.

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    I saw a little of it and it looked good. Poor bastard was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most people, even fans that think they know better, would get caught up in the moment and have done exactly what he did. Now he will have to live the rest of his life, or at least until they win a World series... errrrr...

    strike that...

    he will have to live the rest of his life without ever being able to go back to Wrigley. I feel bad for him.

    With that said, I laughed my ass off when it happened.

  5. #5
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    Awesome film.

    Some of these espn films are really good

  6. #6
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    I always felt Bartman got a bad rap. Like the film points out there was 10 other people in that area at that same moment trying to reach for that same ball - Bartman just happened to be the guy who caught it.

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    I'm am a Cubs fan and I lived in Chicago at the time.

    That episode made me realize the whole appreciated "10th man" (or 6th man or 12th man) referring to fans is a total farce.

    I remember Moises Alou going nuts and spazzing out at Bartman. Of course when Alou had two disappointing highly paid seasons with the Cubs he didn't seem to be upset every time he struck out, which was often. Dusty Baker said he couldn't imagine why any fan would do such a thing. Let's assume Bartman made a mistake, and I'm not sure he did, Baker should understand mistakes since he somehow allowed his six year old bat boy son to stand on home plate in a live game while a member of the Dodgers was barreling toward home plate. Bartman wrote an emotional apology to the Cubs and singled out Ron Santo and Banks. Santo didn't speak to him for years until Bartman agreed to fund something for a Santo charity.

    This is part of the reason I don't really live and die with teams anymore. Following a team is something to do and I enjoy having fun with other fans,
    but the players and owners don't care about the fans other than draining their wallets.

    I was bummed when Brien missed his field goals, but I got over it in ten minutes and slept like a baby.

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    [QUOTE=Timmy®;4167866]I'm am a Cubs fan and I lived in Chicago at the time.

    That episode made me realize the whole appreciated "10th man" (or 6th man or 12th man) referring to fans is a total farce.

    I remember Moises Alou going nuts and spazzing out at Bartman. Of course when Alou had two disappointing highly paid seasons with the Cubs he didn't seem to be upset every time he struck out, which was often. Dusty Baker said he couldn't imagine why any fan would do such a thing. Let's assume Bartman made a mistake, and I'm not sure he did, Baker should understand mistakes since he somehow allowed his six year old bat boy son to stand on home plate in a live game while a member of the Dodgers was barreling toward home plate. Bartman wrote an emotional apology to the Cubs and singled out Ron Santo and Banks. Santo didn't speak to him for years until Bartman agreed to fund something for a Santo charity.

    This is part of the reason I don't really live and die with teams anymore. Following a team is something to do and I enjoy having fun with other fans,
    but the players and owners don't care about the fans other than draining their wallets.

    I was bummed when Brien missed his field goals, but I got over it in ten minutes and slept like a baby.[/QUOTE]


    Another reason why people should not live and die with sports, and just watch it for what it is: entertainment.

    [url]http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/09/27/ozzie-guillens-money-rant-about-buying-a-62-foot-boat-might-be-his-best-diatribe-ever/[/url]


    "Ozzie Guillen is going to be sorely missed in Chicago. He’s off to manage the Miami Marlins for about $4 million per year, reportedly for four years. Chicago will have a difficult time finding another manager who will pop off like this in the media:

    “With the rings, I can’t do [anything] with that,’’ he said. “But with money, I can go buy me a new boat, I can go buy me a new car, I can dress my wife the way I want to dress her, I can go to Spain. With the ring, I can go to United Airlines and say, ‘Hello, I won the 2005 championship. Can you fly me to Spain?’ Hell, no.

    “Money is everything besides health. Money is next to that. A lot of people say, ‘Oh, love.’ They don’t know what love means. I guarantee you, if you raise a girl where I grew up and you’ve got no money and she loves you, but you put the same girl with a guy who’s got a lot of money, I’ll bet she’ll love the guy with money. That’s the way it is. I love you, but I’m hungry.

    “I work in this job for money. I don’t work for nothing. Money. That’s it. The ring? [Bleep] the ring. I don’t even wear my [bleeping] rings. I don’t.’’

    I think he went a little overboard with the “money is everything besides health,” but I don’t want to turn this into a religious discussion. The positives of Guillen’s mouthiness? Even when the White Sox stink, he makes them relevant. His currency is candor, and even though some folks will cringe or laugh at this next part, you know the majority of the population is thinking this:

    “You know what I saw a couple days ago?’’ he said. “I saw a 62-foot boat. That’s what I want, and that’s what I’m going to get. People have to pay me for that. White Sox? I don’t know. Marlins? I don’t know. But somebody will pay. I want to buy my [bleeping] boat. That’s my inspiration. My inspiration is money. That’s everybody’s inspiration.’’

    “If I leave here, I will say, ‘I leave here because I want to make my [bleeping] money,’ ” he said. “You know why? Because no [bleeping] fans, no [bleeping] Jerry or [bleeping] anybody is going to take care of my grandkids and put me in a 62-foot boat. That’s why there’s free agency.’’

    Somewhere near Georgetown, in Washington DC, Jayson Werth of the Nationals was spotted reading this rant and nodding vigorously while boarding his boat. [Sun-Times]

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=eric1520;4167875]Another reason why people should not live and die with sports, and just watch it for what it is: entertainment.

    [url]http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/09/27/ozzie-guillens-money-rant-about-buying-a-62-foot-boat-might-be-his-best-diatribe-ever/[/url]


    "Ozzie Guillen is going to be sorely missed in Chicago. He?s off to manage the Miami Marlins for about $4 million per year, reportedly for four years. Chicago will have a difficult time finding another manager who will pop off like this in the media:

    ?With the rings, I can?t do [anything] with that,?? he said. ?But with money, I can go buy me a new boat, I can go buy me a new car, I can dress my wife the way I want to dress her, I can go to Spain. With the ring, I can go to United Airlines and say, ?Hello, I won the 2005 championship. Can you fly me to Spain?? Hell, no.

    ?Money is everything besides health. Money is next to that. A lot of people say, ?Oh, love.? They don?t know what love means. I guarantee you, if you raise a girl where I grew up and you?ve got no money and she loves you, but you put the same girl with a guy who?s got a lot of money, I?ll bet she?ll love the guy with money. That?s the way it is. I love you, but I?m hungry.

    ?I work in this job for money. I don?t work for nothing. Money. That?s it. The ring? [Bleep] the ring. I don?t even wear my [bleeping] rings. I don?t.??

    I think he went a little overboard with the ?money is everything besides health,? but I don?t want to turn this into a religious discussion. The positives of Guillen?s mouthiness? Even when the White Sox stink, he makes them relevant. His currency is candor, and even though some folks will cringe or laugh at this next part, you know the majority of the population is thinking this:

    ?You know what I saw a couple days ago??? he said. ?I saw a 62-foot boat. That?s what I want, and that?s what I?m going to get. People have to pay me for that. White Sox? I don?t know. Marlins? I don?t know. But somebody will pay. I want to buy my [bleeping] boat. That?s my inspiration. My inspiration is money. That?s everybody?s inspiration.??

    ?If I leave here, I will say, ?I leave here because I want to make my [bleeping] money,? ? he said. ?You know why? Because no [bleeping] fans, no [bleeping] Jerry or [bleeping] anybody is going to take care of my grandkids and put me in a 62-foot boat. That?s why there?s free agency.??

    Somewhere near Georgetown, in Washington DC, Jayson Werth of the Nationals was spotted reading this rant and nodding vigorously while boarding his boat. [Sun-Times][/QUOTE]

    Wow.....I dont know how to respond to that. I would like to think most players/managers/coaches do not think like that.

  10. #10
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    i see the parallels between buckner and bartman but i still have some misunderstandings on both of these instances. i have never fully understood the outrage that red sox and cubs fans had/have for these two guys. the movie touched on some of this with the scapegoat angle but i thought they could have looked less at the actual backstory of the "scapegoat" and more about why these two are pin pointed as the scapegoat.

    first, with bucker. when he made the error, the game was already tied. the wild pitch by stanley scored kevin mitchell with the tying run. the sox had already blown the lead and they were at least looking at going into the 11th inning. the wild pitch and bob stanley should have actually been the "bill bucker" moment of this series.

    then buckner makes the error. many have said/written that had buckner fielded the ground ball cleanly his body was shot and he may have very easily not beaten mookie wilson to the bag anyway. it was no guarantee. besides, this was game 6! it wasn't even the decisive game. the sox still could have come back and won game 7, another game in which they blew an early lead. and i haven't even mentioned the angle of whether or not roger clemens asked out of game 6.

    with bartman, similar scenario. no guarantee that alou makes that catch. if he does, it's not the final out of the game. it's not even the 9th inning yet. they looked at the error by gonzalez at short shortly after pretty closely and it is amazing how this now glossed over for the most part. so the cubs lose game 6. they still had one of their two best pitchers in kerry wood going in game 7 which was being played in their home ballpark. it's ridiculous to blame losing this series on bartman. shame on the team for not having the mental toughness to bounce back after such a freak play like the bartman foul ball. by they way, people also forget that the cubs were up 3-1 in this series, they could have won game 5 or game 7 before/after the bartman incident.

  11. #11
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    That was a very cool documentary. Yeah, poor guy was definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am sure any of us would have had the same reaction he did and go after the ball, just natural instincts.

    What is crazy is that the guy that actually caught the ball sold it for $100K and meanwhile Bartman got nothing but grief.

  12. #12
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    Whatever take FF2 mind from his beloved Red Sux collapse....

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    [QUOTE=IHATEDOLPHINS;4167473]Awesome film.

    Some of these espn films are really good[/QUOTE]

    +1

    I never heard of steve bartman or this one single event, as baseball to me is :zzz:

    But I had so happen to put ESPN on and I caught it from the Buckner blunder, and couldn't turn away.

    You have to feel horrible for that guy. I just don't know what I would have done, and yet he stayed calm.

    Great movie.
    Last edited by LIDeadHead; 10-02-2011 at 12:10 PM.

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    [QUOTE=STL Jet fan;4167948]Wow.....I dont know how to respond to that. I would like to think most players/managers/coaches do not think like that.[/QUOTE]

    You'd LIKE to think otherwise but the fact is the overwhelming majority of pro athletes have the same philosophy as Ozzie G. For every athlete who takes a little less for a hometown discount there are a hundred who take every dime on the table. Think of it- most pro baseball players of status already have more money than they'll ever spend or need. Yet that doesn't usually doesn't stop them from turning down a 25 million dollar contract for a 20 million one. At that point in their career earnings 5 million is a wash...

    As far as the ESPN piece, I didn't realize the level of venom that Bartman was subjected to. As pointed out simple fate played a role as other fans who tried for the ball...Bartman hit the cursed lottery out of the group.

    Bartman was not a pro athlete conditioned to react to game circimstances. He was a fan simply caught up in the moment attempting to catch a ball going INTO the stands. Its not like he intenionally extended his arms into the field to snatch a ball. It was despicable how he was treated.

  15. #15
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    Just like Bob Stanley's wild pitch let in the tying run against the Mets people never bring up Alex Gonzales error on a perfect double play ball that would have got the Cubs out of the inning up 3-1.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=eric1520;4167875]Another reason why people should not live and die with sports, and just watch it for what it is: entertainment.

    [url]http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/09/27/ozzie-guillens-money-rant-about-buying-a-62-foot-boat-might-be-his-best-diatribe-ever/[/url]


    "Ozzie Guillen is going to be sorely missed in Chicago. He’s off to manage the Miami Marlins for about $4 million per year, reportedly for four years. Chicago will have a difficult time finding another manager who will pop off like this in the media:

    “With the rings, I can’t do [anything] with that,’’ he said. “But with money, I can go buy me a new boat, I can go buy me a new car, I can dress my wife the way I want to dress her, I can go to Spain. With the ring, I can go to United Airlines and say, ‘Hello, I won the 2005 championship. Can you fly me to Spain?’ Hell, no.

    “Money is everything besides health. Money is next to that. A lot of people say, ‘Oh, love.’ They don’t know what love means. I guarantee you, if you raise a girl where I grew up and you’ve got no money and she loves you, but you put the same girl with a guy who’s got a lot of money, I’ll bet she’ll love the guy with money. That’s the way it is. I love you, but I’m hungry.

    “I work in this job for money. I don’t work for nothing. Money. That’s it. The ring? [Bleep] the ring. I don’t even wear my [bleeping] rings. I don’t.’’

    I think he went a little overboard with the “money is everything besides health,” but I don’t want to turn this into a religious discussion. The positives of Guillen’s mouthiness? Even when the White Sox stink, he makes them relevant. His currency is candor, and even though some folks will cringe or laugh at this next part, you know the majority of the population is thinking this:

    “You know what I saw a couple days ago?’’ he said. “I saw a 62-foot boat. That’s what I want, and that’s what I’m going to get. People have to pay me for that. White Sox? I don’t know. Marlins? I don’t know. But somebody will pay. I want to buy my [bleeping] boat. That’s my inspiration. My inspiration is money. That’s everybody’s inspiration.’’

    “If I leave here, I will say, ‘I leave here because I want to make my [bleeping] money,’ ” he said. “You know why? Because no [bleeping] fans, no [bleeping] Jerry or [bleeping] anybody is going to take care of my grandkids and put me in a 62-foot boat. That’s why there’s free agency.’’

    Somewhere near Georgetown, in Washington DC, Jayson Werth of the Nationals was spotted reading this rant and nodding vigorously while boarding his boat. [Sun-Times][/QUOTE]

    Wow... just wow...:eek:

    I know a lot of players don't give a grap but for a manager or coach to say something like that is incredible.

    I always knew he was a loud mouth piece of sh!t. That confirms it.

    Hope he is happy playing for 11 people in Miami after the novelty of the new stadium wears off.

  17. #17
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    Watched it the other night. Very well done. I feel bad for the guy. Time for Cub fans to move on. As the film said, mistakes by the Cubs followed that play. It is a shame Bartman cannot live a normal life. Seriously....it's just a game and 8 years later.

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