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Thread: Sandusky/Penn State Thread (MERGED)

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    But what % of the adult abusers are made up of the 30% of the children abused that grow up to be adult abusers?
    I was told there would be no math.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    I was told there would be no math.
    calculators are permitted.

  3. #163
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    In the debate between nature vs nurture - the data says nature wins in a landslide.... So I would venture to say that people who are abused by their parents are more likely to abuse children than those abused by a stranger.

    The science would indicate that the act of abuse isn't the reason they abuse others as an adult, rather they are predesposed to that illness becasue it's passed along in their DNA.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    That's child abuse and neglect, which includes sexual abuse, but is not limited to it. In other words, that includes beating children, leaving children alone home all day by themselves, etc.

  5. #165
    This whole thing upsets me on so many levels it's insane. First off, is no one really above the fray? I think it knocks off the feeling everyone had that somewhere out there some people are good. In college sports it always seems there's something going wrong, some athlete breaking the rules, but that athlete was never at Penn State. No, men come from Penn State. Do you know why Penn State creates men? Because Joe Paterno is their coach.

    That is all SHATTERED right now.

    Joe Paterno, the 84 year old man who seems to never change was just chasing a record this whole time. He knew it, Penn State knew it, and everyone knew it. You're going to be joking me if you tell me that the timing of the release of this report has nothing to do with the fact that Paterno just became the all time leader in wins. How is it even possible that he was just in it for the record but that's exactly what happened.

    Then, in an even more impossible alley, you have a man who's name I cannot even get myself to write doing unspeakable things to CHILDREN. Freaking children. How... I don't understand how some people take pleasure in that. I just don't get it. I read that report and it made no sense to me, I just don't understand how some people could take pleasure in that. It absolutely boggles my mind.

    Some of you who are parents here explained just what you would do to someone if they did this to your children. I don't have kids yet but I've been a camp counselor and if someone did that even to one of my campers I don't know how I could be able to control myself. That kind of monster is insane. I don't know how the parents of those kids must feel, it must be one of the worst feelings in the world and I have no way to understand it because I would torture to an inch of their life anyone who did anything like that to some kid I was a day camp counselor for for 8 weeks.

    And then everyone else. How did no one go to the police? How did no one stop it, even when they saw it? So many people did nothing it makes me wonder: is that what I would do in that situation? I assume not, but I've never been there before but I assume that if I saw someone doing that to a child I would do whatever I could to stop it.

    What really got me from that piece and really made me see why every single person who came into contact with this was part of a cover up that I can guarantee we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg of was from the quote from Jim, the Korean war vet. In the PDF description of victim 8, Jim said "I fought in the [Korean] war...seen people with their guts blown out and arms dismembered...I just witnessed something in their I'll never forget." If Jim, a Korean war vet, didn't report that then I'm incredibly confused. Something definitely happened, someone had to have talked to him. Spooked him or something. It just doesn't add up, especially with that last part about them seeing the monster in his car drive by 3 different times late at night.

    But I just can't believe it, this transcends everything. I don't care about what happened to Pryor. I don't care happened to Tressel. I don't even care about Nevin Shapiro at Miami. To say this is worse than those things would be incorrect. THESE THINGS ARE NOT EVEN ON THE SAME SCALE. Penn State football needs to be given the death penalty for this. It doesn't matter what individual people knew or even what they covered up. For anyone to say Miami deserved the death penalty and then not even mention it with Penn State is ignoring facts. A COACH FOR PENN STATE RAPED CHILDREN. That is worse than anything at Miami. This is the worst instance in college football's history. You know why? Because it happened from a coach, someone we all look up to and are supposed to see as the moulder of men, they are supposed to be better than this. People say some schools have to forfeit games that have already been played because to not would "effect the integrity of the game" this isn't even about integrity. This is about morality. Morality of children. Children that can't defend themselves. Children that were sent to him because they needed help. And this is what a monster did to them.

    And it all happened at one of the institutions we thought could do no wrong. It's a mind shattering thing. But that's what monsters can do.
    Last edited by Jetspennyfan; 11-08-2011 at 05:01 PM.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    That's child abuse and neglect, which includes sexual abuse, but is not limited to it. In other words, that includes beating children, leaving children alone home all day by themselves, etc.
    I agree, but I think Bushy brought up some good points, things to contemplate while most people are losing control of their emotions.

    The more I read, the harder it is for me to come to grips with how profoundly broken the culture must have been in Happy Valley. You read that report, and it is hard to imagine a scenerio where JoPa was not involved in a cover up for his guy Sandusky.

    It goes against everything the man represented and it is just amazingly dissappointing on numerous levels.

  7. #167
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    ^
    jetspennyfan, that was a very heartfelt post, not much to disagree with on my part. Bigtime college sports are no where near where they were intended to be I fear, hopefully there is nothing remotely resembling this happening anywhere else.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetspennyfan View Post
    This whole thing upsets me on so many levels it's insane. First off, is no one really above the fray? I think it knocks off the feeling everyone had that somewhere out there some people are good. In college sports it always seems there's something going wrong, some athlete breaking the rules, but that athlete was never at Penn State. No, men come from Penn State. Do you know why Penn State creates men? Because Joe Paterno is their coach.

    That is all SHATTERED right now.

    Joe Paterno, the 84 year old man who seems to never change was just chasing a record this whole time. He knew it, Penn State knew it, and everyone knew it. You're going to be joking me if you tell me that the timing of the release of this report has nothing to do with the fact that Paterno just became the all time leader in wins. How is it even possible that he was just in it for the record but that's exactly what happened.

    Then, in an even more impossible alley, you have a man who's name I cannot even get myself to write doing unspeakable things to CHILDREN. Freaking children. How... I don't understand how some people take please in that. I just don't get it. I read that report and it made no sense to me, I just don't understand how some people could take pleasure in that. It absolutely boggles my mind.

    Some of you who are parents here explained just what you would do to someone if they did this to your children. I don't have kids yet but I've been a camp counselor and if someone did that even to one of my campers I don't know how I could be able to control myself. That kind of monster is insane. I don't know how the parents of those kids must feel, it must be one of the worst feelings in the world and I have no way to understand it because I would torture to an inch of their life anyone who did anything like that to some kid I was a day camp counselor for for 8 weeks.

    And then everyone else. How did no one go to the police? How did no one stop it, even when they saw it? So many people did nothing it makes me wonder: is that what I would do in that situation? I assume not, but I've never been there before but I assume that if I saw someone doing that to a child I would do whatever I could to stop it.

    What really got me from that piece and really made me see why every single person who came into contact with this was part of a cover up that I can guarantee we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg of was from the quote from Jim, the Korean war vet. In the PDF description of victim 8, Jim said "I fought in the [Korean] war...seen people with their guts blown out and arms dismembered...I just witnessed something in their I'll never forget." If Jim, a Korean war vet, didn't report that then I'm incredibly confused. Something definitely happened, someone had to have talked to him. Spooked him or something. It just doesn't add up, especially with that last part about them seeing the monster in his car drive by 3 different times late at night.

    But I just can't believe it, this transcends everything. I don't care about what happened to Pryor. I don't care happened to Tressel. I don't even care about Nevin Shapiro at Miami. To say this is worse than those things would be incorrect. THESE THINGS ARE NOT EVEN ON THE SAME SCALE. Penn State football needs to be given the death penalty for this. It doesn't matter what individual people knew or even what they covered up. For anyone to say Miami deserved the death penalty and then not even mention it with Penn State is ignoring facts. A COACH FOR PENN STATE RAPED CHILDREN. That is worse than anything at Miami. This is the worst instance in college football's history. You know why? Because it happened from a coach, someone we all look up to and are supposed to see as the moulder of men, they are supposed to be better than this. People say some schools have to forfeit games that have already been played because to not would "effect the integrity of the game" this isn't even about integrity. This is about morality. Morality of children. Children that can't defend themselves. Children that were sent to him because they needed help. And this is what a monster did to them.

    And it all happened at one of the institutions we thought could do no wrong. It's a mind shattering thing. But that's what monsters can do.
    This is a great post. I'm with you on almost everything.

    But I disagree about giving the death penalty to the program. That is not fair to the people of Pennsylvania, the students, alumni or the thousands of student athletes that have competed in blue and white.

    The evil and selfish actions of a few should not kill the program. Clean house? Absolutely. But don't take this away from the innocent.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    This is a great post. I'm with you on almost everything.

    But I disagree about giving the death penalty to the program. That is not fair to the people of Pennsylvania, the students, alumni or the thousands of student athletes that have competed in blue and white.

    The evil and selfish actions of a few should not kill the program. Clean house? Absolutely. But don't take this away from the innocent.
    Depending on the facts that are proven and brought to light I think it should be on the table. Frankly if I'm PSU I'd seriously consider shutting down the program at least temporarily.

    This goes beyond "what's fair" to the alum and fans.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by frostlich View Post
    Depending on the facts that are proven and brought to light I think it should be on the table. Frankly if I'm PSU I'd seriously consider shutting down the program at least temporarily.

    This goes beyond "what's fair" to the alum and fans.
    How they are even holding "official/school sanctioned" practice right now I don't understand. If I'm the school I call the captains in, tell them "we cannot be sanctioning practice right now but you can take the team and hold your own practice." Keep the players ready for their game without making it look like the school doesn't care about this.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    This is a great post. I'm with you on almost everything.

    But I disagree about giving the death penalty to the program. That is not fair to the people of Pennsylvania, the students, alumni or the thousands of student athletes that have competed in blue and white.

    The evil and selfish actions of a few should not kill the program. Clean house? Absolutely. But don't take this away from the innocent.
    The problem is, if our worst fears are confirmed - not just about Sandusky, but about the code of silence that was pervasive at Penn State, how do you move on? Who takes over? Bradley, Hall? Those guys may very well have been part of the program for quite a while as well (at least Bradley has). I'm not sure if they will remain untainted when this thing is over and done.

    I'm guessing that much of the coaching staff will be purged. Anyone that had any knowledge of the goings on will get the boot. It may take a while to get the program back in order, even if there is no death penalty.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostlich View Post
    Depending on the facts that are proven and brought to light I think it should be on the table. Frankly if I'm PSU I'd seriously consider shutting down the program at least temporarily.

    This goes beyond "what's fair" to the alum and fans.

    People are upset, and rightfully so (me included) - but I do not understand what good would come of blowing up an entire program for the sins of a few. Beyond the fact that it is "enjoyed" by so many, thousands of people in the area are economically dependent on its existance.

    Those people should lose everything becasue of a monster?

    I don't think that's right.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    The problem is, if our worst fears are confirmed - not just about Sandusky, but about the code of silence that was pervasive at Penn State, how do you move on? Who takes over? Bradley, Hall? Those guys may very well have been part of the program for quite a while as well (at least Bradley has). I'm not sure if they will remain untainted when this thing is over and done.

    I'm guessing that much of the coaching staff will be purged. Anyone that had any knowledge of the goings on will get the boot. It may take a while to get the program back in order, even if there is no death penalty.

    They hire a new AD and he (or better yet, she) hires Greg Schiano to start it over.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    That's child abuse and neglect, which includes sexual abuse, but is not limited to it. In other words, that includes beating children, leaving children alone home all day by themselves, etc.
    Some say "Pedophiles Often Victims. On the basis of his research over the years, Abel has found that some 30 percent of pedophiles were sexually abused themselves as children. In their studies, Galynker and Cohen have come up with an even higher percentage—60 percent—versus only 4 percent of controls.


    http://www.abusersanon.com/child-abu...es-as-children

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushyTheBeaver View Post
    Here's what seems f-ed up to me about society's reaction towards child sexual abuse. If I understand correctly, most or close to all molesters were themselves victims of abuse. It's what turned them into abusers. So it's like this self-perpetuating system.

    Except that in some ways we (meaning everyone else) are just as much a part of it. Because we loathe the abusers while expressing sympathy for the abused. Who in ten or fifteen years will turn into abusers and then we'll turn around and loathe them. Odds are that Sandusky himself was sexually abused as a child. He gets no understanding, only hatred. And the kids that he abused, that we claim we're so concerned for, in ten years if they commit an act they'll get the same lack of understanding from society, the same loathing and hatred. We'll scream to lock them up and throw away the key.

    Where is somebody stepping in to break the cycle? Where are we recognizing our own hypocrisy and how we help perpetuate the cycle by giving free reign to our disgust as opposed to the much harder and unpleasant task of trying to understand what is going on and deal with the the root causes?
    Being the victim of as crime is not justification for committing that same crime in our society. We do not allow victims of rape to rape someone else. We do not allow victims of assault to assault someone else. We do not allow survivors of a murder to murder someone else.

    Being the victom of sexual abuse is horrible, I assure you. I know far more about the damage it causes than I prefer. However, it does not give justification for becoming a sexual abuser yourself.

    The cycle is broken when a victim of abuse chooses to not continue the cycle and abuse another. Either through force of personal will, or via the various help, support or counciling services available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revischrist View Post
    I have been a big Penn St fan since the days of Curt Warner and Joe Pa is a legend, bu he should retire for more than just this. He is just a figurehead at this point. You watch him in the booth during the game and he looks like a fan. He doesn't seem to be involved at all in the game and it is getting a little embarrassing. Factor in this latest scandal and I think his time is up, it just sucks that it will have to end this way.

    The more I think about it, he will probably try to stay on one more year so he doesn't end his career with this controversy as his final chapter.
    Paterno is done after this season is over.

    The Board of Trustees has all but made that decision.

    This is his final season.

    I felt Paterno should have retired at least 6 years ago. But I know he stayed on primarily to battle Bowden for wins. Total ego thing IMO. Then, when Bowden retired, that wasn't enough. He saw that he was within reach of Eddie Robinson's record. His ego made him stay on even though he wasn't coaching the team the way a real head coach coaches a team. How can a head coach be credited with a win when he's sitting in the pressbox? Not even wearing a headset? I've been emabarrassed by that for some time now. It's not right.

    By the way, I'm a PSU alum who worshipped Joe Paterno.

    I'm sickened by all of this.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    Paterno is done after this season is over.

    The Board of Trustees has all but made that decision.


    This is his final season.

    I felt Paterno should have retired at least 6 years ago. But I know he stayed on primarily to battle Bowden for wins. Total ego thing IMO. Then, when Bowden retired, that wasn't enough. He saw that he was within reach of Eddie Robinson's record. His ego made him stay on even though he wasn't coaching the team the way a real head coach coaches a team. How can a head coach be credited with a win when he's sitting in the pressbox? Not even wearing a headset? I've been emabarrassed by that for some time now. It's not right.

    By the way, I'm a PSU alum who worshipped Joe Paterno.

    I'm sickened by all of this.
    You think he'll make it to the end of the season? If I had to put money on it, I think he's done sooner than that.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    Paterno is done after this season is over.

    The Board of Trustees has all but made that decision.

    This is his final season.

    I felt Paterno should have retired at least 6 years ago. But I know he stayed on primarily to battle Bowden for wins. Total ego thing IMO. Then, when Bowden retired, that wasn't enough. He saw that he was within reach of Eddie Robinson's record. His ego made him stay on even though he wasn't coaching the team the way a real head coach coaches a team. How can a head coach be credited with a win when he's sitting in the pressbox? Not even wearing a headset? I've been emabarrassed by that for some time now. It's not right.

    By the way, I'm a PSU alum who worshipped Joe Paterno.

    I'm sickened by all of this.
    He wont make this Friday evening. You watch. This is HUGE.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    You think he'll make it to the end of the season? If I had to put money on it, I think he's done sooner than that.
    I have a feeling he's coached his last game.

    Congrats on hanging around long enough to break that record..I guess.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    He wont make this Friday evening. You watch. This is HUGE.
    Agreed. The alleged crimes against children especially make this too serious that football doesn't even matter.

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