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Thread: Probably a Mistake To Bother Posting Tonight, But Here are Our Problems as I see Them

  1. #1

    Probably a Mistake To Bother Posting Tonight, But Here are Our Problems as I see Them

    1. We continue to have no pass rush of note. Brady had literally ten minutes back there most time he dropped back. We cannot create enough or consistent pass pressure as it stands, and it's killing our Defense at times, and was fatal tonight. Give BRady time, he will defeat you.

    2. Sanchez has poor pocket presense, still is playing like a 1st/2nd year QB during the regular season, and still makes far too many bad throws. The Greene INT was thrown way to hard for a poor-pass-catcher like Greene to make, and the other INT was equally a bad read and missed defener on Sanchez's part. He's also startign to look O'Brien-esque in the pocket, totally unaware of pressure, and far less mobile than his youth would suggest. He's not developing as fast as we need him to, and it's starting to be a legit question to ask if he ever will in our system.

    3. Greene has not developed into the RB we (especially me) had hoped for.

    4. The D, specificly at LB and Safety, has no answer for good TE's or good slot receivers. Our Safeties tonight played very poorly almost the entire night, and even the better of the two, Leonhard, looks slow and in decline.

    5. Poor Time-Out management. When Brady and Co. was No-Huddle ripping through our D, a timeout to stop it was desperately needed. Rex refused to call one, and they rolled right over us. Rex should know better, you got to stop that momentum, and give your D a breather to get reorganzed in that spot. Add that to Sanchez's totally foolish TO that gave the Pats all that time pre-halftime.

    Not alot of suprises here tbh. D can't pass rush when it's needed. Sanchez during the regular is far too hit or miss and turnover prone. And the turnovers, and the D's hot/cold streak of getting run over have led to these losses. We can't reliably socre in the red zone, and we cannot reliably make a stop when we desperately need one. At those game changing moments this year, we're the team throwing the INT, fumbling the kick or allowing a brilliant 90 yard drive.

    On the bright side, we have a laughably bad schedule, and a Wild Card is still possible. Sadly, so is 8-8 with this team playing as it has this year. We take alot of the bad teams coming from granted, but with Sanchez and our D as they are, we CAN lose many of them.

    Against the worst D in the legaue full of no-name nobodies, our O gave them 21 points tonight. Thats hard to overcome, especially when your own D just couldn;t find an answer for the no-huddle, the twin TE threats, and the guy who will probably one day be caled the GOAT at the QB position.

    Lets hope we do better vs. Tebow, since if any team in the NFL should know how to stop his Wildcat-esque College-Ball Offense, it's ours.

    A win vs. Denver, we're 6-4, still alive for the Wildcard A loss, and you may as well start thinking draft. Sad to say, but thats the reality of it.

  2. #2
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    and these are the same problems we had last year and the year before that

  3. #3
    Warfish, I'm surprised you didn't mention the lack of discipline. Aside from that . . .

    I think Sanchez can be a better QB in a better system. Schotty hasn't done much to help Sanchez develop, if anything, it appears Sanchez is starting to regress.

    The running game is no longer dominant & Greene isn't the answer. Why haven't we seen Bilal Powell?

    Our safeties suck. They're undersized & slow and prove to be a liabilty in coverage. They've been exploited week in & week out.

    The lack of pass rush has been an ongoing issue. The real question is why hasn't it been addressed yet?

  4. #4
    it happens every year, we lose a game and start pointing out why we're just not an elite team. All the reasons listed above are correct, and like a poster above just stated, they were the same problems we had last year!

    Greene is a very good running back, however, he is not breaking off huge runs like an elite back. Some of the holes he gets are really good and he's picking up those 6 to 8 yards, but a great back will every once in a while give you the chance at a home run play, and greene so far has not offered that this year.

    Sanchez this year just looks regressed, no other way to put it. Pocket presence has been very shaky all year, whether it be this game, the ravens game, he just continues to not make an adjustment. A lot of people blame schotty, and i agree he's had his bad moments, but sanchez has not helped this offense much this year.

    And finally the putrid passrush. We complain about the safety play and the coverage of slot guys somtimes but lets be real, Tom Brady had over 6 seconds to throw every time he dropped back. How can you cover anyone when the qb has over 6 seconds to throw. This is the biggest weakness on the defense! sure we can say eric smith cant cover and leonard is slow, but ill even live with that because with a great passrush, those guys are probably getting it done more often than not. Look at the giants secondary, they can look elite somtimes because of the amazing passrush the giants generate with their front 4. I agree we need an upgrade over smith, but im in the camp that says a great pass rush will make us feel better about our safety play. We'll never consistently beat elite teams like the pats unless we can rush the passer effectively.

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4231910]

    Against the worst D in the legaue full of no-name nobodies, our O gave them 21 points tonight. Thats hard to overcome, especially when your own D just couldn;t find an answer for the no-huddle, the twin TE threats, and the guy who will probably one day be caled the GOAT at the QB position.

    [/QUOTE]

    That worst D in the league you Jet fans are constantly talking about is tied with your own D in total points allowed .....

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4232246]That worst D in the league you Jet fans are constantly talking about is tied with your own D in total points allowed .....[/QUOTE]

    Your D sucks. You are tied with us in points allowed per game because our offense gives the other team lots of points. It also doesn't help that our defense is on the field a lot.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=detectivekimble;4232260]Your D sucks. You are tied with us in points allowed per game because our offense gives the other team lots of points. It also doesn't help that our defense is on the field a lot.[/QUOTE]

    Doesn't matter. In the end, you are what you are and right now both D's have given up 200 points.....

  8. #8
    The problems with this team are very simple:

    1) On offense - no quick strike/deep threat. As a result, we have to put these 15-20 play drives together. The chances of doing that consistently, especially with this offense, without something going wrong are not very high. Sometimes you need an explosive play to wake you up. Even if you don't get the big play, the threat loosens the defense up.

    2) The safeties suck in coverage. Revis and Cromartie lock it down on the outside. The safeties are constantly abused up the middle.

    The pass rush isn't great, either, but if we even did a decent job on the TE, we would have been fine.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE]3. Greene has not developed into the RB we (especially me) had hoped for. [/QUOTE]

    Greene averaged 4.6 yards a carry last night. What do you want from the guy?

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4232265]Doesn't matter. In the end, you are what you are and right now both D's have given up 200 points.....[/QUOTE]

    What do you mean it doesn't matter? Our DEFENSE has not given up 200 points. Have you ever seen our defense play with a big lead? Your defense sucks. There's no way around that. The problem is that our offense sucks as badly as your defense. It's pathetic when an offense gives up almost as many points as a defense.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4232246]That worst D in the league you Jet fans are constantly talking about is tied with your own D in total points allowed .....[/QUOTE]

    Be honest, the Pats D has been pretty terrible before last night when Carter simply abused Ferguson all night long (surprised it didn't make the list).

    If Brady got to play the Pats D he would throw up 50 on them. It would be ugly.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4232265]Doesn't matter. In the end, you are what you are and right now both D's have given up 200 points.....[/QUOTE]

    Shocking Patriots fans are starting to show up here.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4232246]That worst D in the league you Jet fans are constantly talking about is tied with your own D in total points allowed .....[/QUOTE]

    False, I believe the Jets defense has given up about 35-40 points less. You have to go back and count the scores the Jets offense gave up.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4232265]Doesn't matter. In the end, you are what you are and right now both D's have given up 200 points.....[/QUOTE]

    Again, false. The Jets have given up 200 points, not the Jets defense.

  15. #15
    The root of the problems for the Jets can be found at 3 positions where they are in desparate need of an upgrage and where they have stood pat for 3 seasons:

    1) OLB - We only have one, Pace, who has a decent all around skill set of covering, rushing the QB and playing the run. He would seem like a star if the guy opposite him was all pro caliber. Pace needs to be the Carl Banks to someone's Lawrence Taylor. He can not be "the man", but he could cause a ton of problems if the guy opposite him was someone the O needed to scheme against.

    2) Safety - apart from being smart and not afraid to hit, they possess little in the way of the skill set needed to cover TE's and RB's. And think about, these guys have the luxury of playing behind probably the best set of 3 CB's in the league. How much could a good ball hawking safey accomplish if he had 3 CB's that excelled in man coverage in front of him. I really like Leonard, but he's just too small to be an NFL Safety. And while he's willing to hit a player, their is a huge difference between being hit by a Bus and a Hugo. So, I'd keep Smith as my Strong Safety becuase he does hit like a bus and every great Safety tandem has a cover guy and a hitter.

    3) Offensive Co-ordinator - While Sanchez clearly had a bad game, QB's, like pitchers, don't always have their best stuff --whether its a struggle with accuracy or seeing the field on a particular night -- it happens. Just like a catcher has to adjust his pitch calls to fit a pitchers "stuff" on a particular night, the OC has to adjust his game plan to run plays that will actually work. For the passing game this requires an evaluation of what the QB is doing well and what he is not on this particular night and against the different D formations. The same assessment has to be made for the running game. Basically, the OC needs to figure out 2 things: What plays will move the chains and what plays will result in scores. Short of a D stacked with HOF'ers, no one has ever designed a D that can stop every thing an O can do. The Jets are well balanced enough and have talent at the skill positions. They are unerachieving. Schotty has good games here an there but his brain farts in games where the Jets O should have little difficulty putting together scoring drives are legion. For most of the night all the Pats did was rush their 4 lineman and put 7 men in zone coverage. Any decent OC, even with a QB having a bad night, should be able to dial up a handful of passing plays that will work against this D on a consistent basis.... Passing to the TE (I hear we've got a good one) in the seam, or perhaps flooding a zone with WR's that include one who is particularly tall, or even throwing deep balls. Frankly, I'm flumoxed and can only think that Schotty has Pics of Rex massaging Tanny's and Woody's feet. I can think of no other reason that this guy is still the OC. There is no worse game planner/play caller in the NFL than Brian Schottenheimer... None... and it aint even close. (while some may blame Sanchez, I can't rule it out, but it is impossible to know what Sanchez is, or could be, without giving him the benefit of an OC that knows how to game plan and call plays.)


    Whew... I feel a little better. I hate the Pats, but losing to Brady and BB is no crime. The Jets need to re-group and take care of business. They are certainly capable of running the table or going 6-1 down the stretch. The sky is not falling but playing against a well coached and QB'd team certainly served to expose the Jets' weaknesses.

    One last thing. Rex is supposed to be a defensive genuis, but why doesn't he even consider that the Jets would be better off in a base 4-3 than a 3-4. We've got a lot more depth and talent on the D line than at LB and I could see a young 4 man D line rotation wearing out the O line in the second half. I'd rather have:

    DE Pitouta and Wilkerson
    DT Pouha and Devito (Ellis and Dixon)
    OLB Pace and Westerman
    MLB Harris (I'd consider putting Harris at OLB for Westerman and Scott at MLB)

    THAN

    DE Wilkerson and Devito
    DT Pouha
    OLB Pace and Westerman
    ILB Harris and Scott
    Last edited by SONNY WERBLIN; 11-14-2011 at 10:53 AM.

  16. #16
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    A lot of good viewpoints here.

    One question I keep asking myself is why Sanchez looks so uncomfortable whenever he's passing?

    Aside from having people in his face . . .

    Some things I have noticed:

    1) Why does it never seem like Sanchez has a pocket to throw from?

    We have two fantastic players in D'Brick and Mangold. Is Wayne Hunter THAT bad? Are our guards that bad? Sanchez is 6' 2" no? He looks like Doug Flutie sometimes in the pocket . . .

    Is it that the OC is asking him to make too many short drops and too many quick throws? Because, it seems like any time he isn't ready to throw as soon as he drops it results in a busted play.

    2) Why can't we throw the ball down the field?

    Half of Sanchez's throws are checkdowns. I don't watch a lot of other teams play so I don't have a great point of comparison, but the Jets offense is usually a lot of short throws to LT or Greene. As was pointed out, we can't have our ) needing to have 15 play drives every time.


    Schotty is clearly not the fit for Sanchez. Sanchez is playing exactly like Chad Pennington used to. It's can be an effective dink-n-dunk when executed well and can make you a winning team - but it's not going to win Super Bowls or big games.

    The Jets put a lot of money into Sanchez. They need to figure out what system he stands the best chance to develop in - because Schotty's sure isn't it.

    I agree with Sonny and some other posters: the safety problem is over-rated. It's the D-line play and the LB corp; there is no one on our front-seven that O's have to scheme against. They only have to scheme against our scheme - and we saw that last night with the Pat's focus on TE play and the no-huddle.

    Very unhappy!!!
    Last edited by adpz; 11-14-2011 at 11:31 AM.

  17. #17
    glad the anti schitty section got such a lengthy and accurate write up. it's too bad the schitty apologists don't see this azz clown as the problem. they would rather blame it on the players. kind of like when herm said they don't run tackling drills and then wonders why they don't tackle very well. the whole point is the team needs some serious coaching on offense if only to rebuild sanchez, who has been showing happy feet for the whole season. he's getting beaten up and it shows in his game. after that the oline and the receivers need to get motivated and it all starts at the top. yes rex needs to step in and the first things he should do is launch schitty and his stupid hare brained play calling. it's simple; you can't run plays that you can't execute.

    [QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4232308]The root of the problems for the Jets can be found at 3 positions where they are in desparate need of an upgrage and where they have stood pat for 3 seasons:

    1) OLB - We only have one, Pace, who has a decent all around skill set of covering, rushing the QB and playing the run. He would seem like a star if the guy opposite him was all pro caliber. Pace needs to be the Carl Banks to someone's Lawrence Taylor. He can not be "the man", but he could cause a ton of problems if the guy opposite him was someone the O needed to scheme against.

    2) Safety - apart from being smart and not afraid to hit, they possess little in the way of the skill set needed to cover TE's and RB's. And think about, these guys have the luxury of playing behind probably the best set of 3 CB's in the league. How much could a good ball hawking safey accomplish if he had 3 CB's that excelled in man coverage in front of him. I really like Leonard, but he's just too small to be an NFL Safety. And while he's willing to hit a player, their is a huge difference between being hit by a Bus and a Hugo. So, I'd keep Smith as my Strong Safety becuase he does hit like a bus and every great Safety tandem has a cover guy and a hitter.

    3) Offensive Co-ordinator - While Sanchez clearly had a bad game, QB's, like pitchers, don't always have their best stuff --whether its a struggle with accuracy or seeing the field on a particular night -- it happens. Just like a catcher has to adjust his pitch calls to fit a pitchers "stuff" on a particular night, the OC has to adjust his game plan to run plays that will actually work. For the passing game this requires an evaluation of what the QB is doing well and what he is not on this particular night and against the different D formations. The same assessment has to be made for the running game. Basically, the OC needs to figure out 2 things: What plays will move the chains and what plays will result in scores. Short of a D stacked with HOF'ers, no one has ever designed a D that can stop every thing an O can do. The Jets are well balanced enough and have talent at the skill positions. They are unerachieving. Schotty has good games here an there but his brain farts in games where the Jets O should have little difficulty putting together scoring drives are legion. For most of the night all the Pats did was rush their 4 lineman and put 7 men in zone coverage. Any decent OC, even with a QB having a bad night, should be able to dial up a handful of passing plays that will work against this D on a consistent basis.... Passing to the TE (I hear we've got a good one) in the seam, or perhaps flooding a zone with WR's that include one who is particularly tall, or even throwing deep balls. Frankly, I'm flumoxed and can only think that Schotty has Pics of Rex massaging Tanny's and Woody's feet. I can think of no other reason that this guy is still the OC. There is no worse game planner/play caller in the NFL than Brian Schottenheimer... None... and it aint even close. (while some may blame Sanchez, I can't rule it out, but it is impossible to know what Sanchez is, or could be, without giving him the benefit of an OC that knows how to game plan and call plays.)


    Whew... I feel a little better. I hate the Pats, but losing to Brady and BB is no crime. The Jets need to re-group and take care of business. They are certainly capable of running the table or going 6-1 down the stretch. The sky is not falling but playing against a well coached and QB'd team certainly served to expose the Jets' weaknesses.

    One last thing. Rex is supposed to be a defensive genuis, but why doesn't he even consider that the Jets would be better off in a base 4-3 than a 3-4. We've got a lot more depth and talent on the D line than at LB and I could see a young 4 man D line rotation wearing out the O line in the second half. I'd rather have:

    DE Pitouta and Wilkerson
    DT Pouha and Devito (Ellis and Dixon)
    OLB Pace and Westerman
    MLB Harris (I'd consider putting Harris at OLB for Westerman and Scott at MLB)

    THAN

    DE Wilkerson and Devito
    DT Pouha
    OLB Pace and Westerman
    ILB Harris and Scott[/QUOTE]

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=sameoldjets;4232400] it's simple; you can't run plays that you can't execute.[/QUOTE]


    Precisely, 50% of the time when Sanchez drops back it's one-mississippi, two-mississippi, check-down throw. That plus inside runs are basically our offense.

    Parcells of course said 'you are your record'; I'd add that you are the offense you can execute and right now - the above is all we got. Is it any surprise we don't scare anyone?

  19. #19

    Norv Turner

    When Norv gets canned by the Chargers I hope Rex does the right thing and hire him as the new offensive coordinator. Schotty's gotta go. I think his game plan is too predictable and good teams have our offensive style figured out.

  20. #20
    [quote]Greene has not developed into the RB we (especially me) had hoped for.[/quote]

    That's fine in the overall picture but has nothing to do with last night...

    Greene performed well, in the limited action he saw.

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