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Thread: We cannot dig, build, or pave our way out of economic malaise

  1. #81
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4234447]forced labor camps, eh? Im sure those will be a great PR success.[/QUOTE]

    :dunno:

    Don't know PR, don't care abourt PR. I care about solutions that work. Unlike you, I have the courage of my beliefs, and will state them openly, not hide them in endless quibble.

    still waiting for you to simply say "I support open borders", because eveyr word on the subject ypu post says you do, but you still seem to fear actually saying those words.

    In any event, my policy would work, and work well.

    But it's not in the two-party system interest to fix it, so the "it will never happen" argument is quite accurate.

    Oh,a nd tanks for skipping over the rest of the ideas presented. Shows you ahve no actual answer of your own, somethign I fully expected. Open Borders without limits and free social services for all is your position, got it.

  2. #82
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4234468]
    Don't know PR, don't care abourt PR. I care about solutions that work. Unlike you, I have the courage of my beliefs, and will state them openly, not hide them in endless quibble.[/QUOTE]

    lets walk this through. Person works illegally in America. Let's say at a meatpacking plant. Gets injured. Gets ER care. Goes to a forced work camp (!) until they pay off the debt and then instantly deported. That's your great idea? what does that accomplish? What are they doing in this work camp, pray tell? Chipping at rocks with a pickaxe? Is it a gulag? or maybe it's a meatpacking labor plant. and then end of the day who does his stinky job? a grateful unemployed American? Cmon dude.

    [QUOTE=Warfish;4234468]
    still waiting for you to simply say "I support open borders", because eveyr word on the subject ypu post says you do, but you still seem to fear actually saying those words.
    [/QUOTE]

    I dont support completely open borders. I do support a vastly easier and more permissive immigration system. I think having fresh labor, skilled and unskilled, helps the economy. Albert Einstein was an immigrant. Sergey Brin was an immigrant. Our country is built on these types of people and no one ever accused Einstein of taking someone's job. We are all from immigrants and that's what makes this country special.

  3. #83
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4234500]lets walk this through. Person works illegally in America. Let's say at a meatpacking plant. Gets injured. Gets ER care. Goes to a forced work camp (!) until they pay off the debt and then instantly deported. That's your great idea?[/quote]

    No, my great idea is the entire system as a whole.

    [QUOTE]What are they doing in this work camp, pray tell?[/QUOTE]

    Picking fruit, since accordig to you only they can handle such a job.

    [QUOTE]I dont support completely open borders.[/QUOTE]

    [Removed Reply]

    [quote]We are all from immigrants and that's what makes this country special.[/QUOTE]

    **** you, I'm a LEGAL immigrant. Me and an illegal have nothing in common.
    Last edited by Warfish; 11-15-2011 at 03:05 PM.

  4. #84
    All Pro
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    The best solution to the illegal immigration problem is an expanded legal immigration program.

    By the way is the number of illegal immigrants in this country is down significantly over the past few years. Deportations are up, and due to the economic downturn, there are less people invading and more people migrating back to their original countries.

  5. #85
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4233832]
    You base this claim on what? Did you see an Industry Report saying it's being used 90% of the time it's offered and appropriate? Did you see a poll )of more than a dozen (D) voters, saying it's wildly popular?

    I doubt you have any actual source tbh, but frankly it's no suprise that it would be popular. .[/QUOTE]

    from today's NY Times

    [quote]
    No matter what the Supreme Court decides about the constitutionality of the federal law adopted last year, health care in America has changed in ways that will not be easily undone. [b]Provisions already put in place, like tougher oversight of health insurers, the expansion of coverage to one million young adults and more protections for workers with pre-existing conditions are already well cemented and popular. [/b]

    [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/15/health/policy/health-care-is-changing-despite-federal-uncertainty.html[/url]

    [/quote]

  6. #86
    [QUOTE=cr726;4234398]Military style border crossings? What are you talking about?[/QUOTE]

    That means militants armed with assault rifles operating on both sides of the border under the direction of different drug cartels. That is what is happening there. The drug running is big business and the cartels are armed to the teeth.

    You didn't answer the question about the role of the national guard. What is their role?

  7. #87
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4234506] Me and an illegal have nothing in common.[/QUOTE]

    but what if that illegal loved Pink Floyd and Philip K Dick?

  8. #88
    [QUOTE=piney;4234728]but what if that illegal loved Pink Floyd and Philip K Dick?[/QUOTE]

    ;):D

  9. #89
    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4234689]That means militants armed with assault rifles operating on both sides of the border under the direction of different drug cartels. That is what is happening there. The drug running is big business and the cartels are armed to the teeth.

    You didn't answer the question about the role of the national guard. What is their role?[/QUOTE]

    It's not as simple as you think.

    [url]https://www.ngaus.org/ngaus/files/ccLibraryFiles/Filename/000000000457/primer%20fin.pdf[/url]

  10. #90
    [QUOTE=cr726;4232506][url]http://www.landlinemag.com/todays_news/Daily/2011/Jun11/062711/062711-01.shtml[/url][/QUOTE]..thats horrible...but have u seen the tolls on the GW and Verrazano lately...

  11. #91
    [QUOTE=2foolish197;4234765]..thats horrible...but have u seen the tolls on the GW and Verrazano lately...[/QUOTE]

    Yes, but at the very least that money is staying here in the U.S.

  12. #92
    Practice Squad
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    Rockland County
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    I wish infrastructure spending wasn't politicized. Military spending hasn't been politicized lately. AFAIK the current Administration hasn't made any huge cuts. there are wars going on so the military gets what it needs to fight. Infrastructure should be the same way.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Mississippi_River_bridge"] Ever since that bridge fell into the river in Minnesota [/URL] there has certainly been a heightened awareness about old infrastructure. If a bridge or something is determined by engineers to need rebuilding, then it needs rebuilding. I hate when this becomes a big public issue for debate. I also hate when, at these public meetings and debates, the construction guys come out in their hard hats and make it all about [B]jobs[/B]. These decisions should be made about infrastructure needs, not jobs (which is a temporary solution to unemployment anyway).

    It just so happens that a recession is a decent time to take on some of these projects. These projects create some congestion problems, which is alleviated by the drop in traffic numbers during bust years. When boom times come again, sure is nice to have a new bridge/highway or whatever to help handle the increase in traffic. So it is not so much about jobs as it is an investment for the next few decades of growth.

    I think we've debated trains on here before. I'm all for commuter trains. And Acela is a good fit for the North-East corridor. The other high speed projects being considered in this country are wasteful. What's the price tag on that SF/LA train? Hundreds of billions of dollars??? geesh!

  13. #93
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4234447]forced labor camps, eh? Im sure those will be a great PR success.[/QUOTE]

    I think the Germans already tried this idea in the 30's.

  14. #94
    [QUOTE=TerminatorJet;4235113]I think the Germans already tried this idea in the 30's.[/QUOTE]

    Right, because my Immigration Plan idea is SO similar to the Final Solution, amirite?:rolleyes:

    By the way, the U.S. forces labor on prisoners in prison today.

    I would also say the Communists did it too, in the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. Yet that doesn't stop many of our most liberal friends from being big fans of Communism-based economic policies, does it?:rolleyes:

  15. #95
    by the way the thread title talks about an economic malaise

    I wonder how many in this thread know what's really happening in the economy

    for example that the recession ended 2 years ago and we have had growth since then

    or that the most recent consumer numbers have actually been really good

    is there a malaise? or is it a creation of the RIGHT WING MEDIA Warbl Garbl

    if there is a malaise, prove it. 9% unemployment is not great but alot of the other numbers are pointed upwards.

  16. #96
    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4232584]Oh please! We have a project on hold for an oil pipeline from Canada that would employ more than 20K people for multiple years. Obama has the deal on hold. We have a plant in SC for Boeing that would employ 5000+ high level engineers and an additional 35,000 people in support companies. The Obama admin is suing them and attempting to block it.

    Either our government is mindbogglingly stupid or they are actively and knowingly sabotaging our Businesses and MFG sector. I tend to believe the former.[/QUOTE]

    From up here (Canada) it appears that the US is going out of business.

    The daily business between our 2 countries is the largest between 2 countries in the entire world. Since your new President arrived I can honestly say his policies are killing this great relationship. Meanwhile our Prime Minister is in the middle east looking for (and finding) countries who want to do business.

    In Halifax where I am from we just landed a $25,000,000,000 contract to build a sh1tload of a navel fleet, this contract has pretty much solidified a growth rate of 3- 5% over the next 20 plus years.

    Where 3 or 4 years ago I would imagine that the contract would call for many items we would normally get from the US. If things continue down the current path I would expect a lot of this business (high tech weapons, etc) to go elsewhere. Just one example there are many others like the huge pipeline. That will most likely go ahead when your Pres understands if you don't want our oil it will be rather easy to find someone who does. The days of Canada being to polite for its own good are over. Get on board or get off the bus

    The message coming from our government seems to be, that we would like to sit around while you get things worked out but business and life goes on.
    Last edited by MACPAC; 11-16-2011 at 10:46 AM.

  17. #97
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4235278]by the way the thread title talks about an economic malaise

    I wonder how many in this thread know what's really happening in the economy[/quote]

    [url]http://www.esa.doc.gov/about-economic-indicators[/url]

    Thats "whats going on" economicly.

  18. #98
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4235307][url]http://www.esa.doc.gov/about-economic-indicators[/url]

    Thats "whats going on" economicly.[/QUOTE]

    check those numbers out... it's not really a malaise.

  19. #99
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4235394]check those numbers out... it's not really a malaise.[/QUOTE]

    [IMG]http://www.moviegoods.com/Assets/product_images/1020/472384.1020.A.jpg[/IMG]

  20. #100
    [QUOTE=cr726;4234776]Yes, but at the very least that money is staying here in the U.S.[/QUOTE]...but Indiana already got their 4 billion...plus the taxes off the capital...

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