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Thread: Observations from an amateur

  1. #1
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    Observations from an amateur

    I hardly ever write or start topics anymore b/c I believe that the sad truth is that itís hard to write anything without getting attacked by cyber tough guys and thatís pretty annoying but that being said I decided to write a few comments down. There is one thing that Iím hearing lately that has bothered me a lot. And that is this idea that Sanchez has elite level or great players all around him on offense. This is one of the more absurd observations that I have heard in recent memory. My opinions are going to be just that, opinions. Letís go through it position by position:

    ē [B]HB[/B]-I think Greene is adequate. But I can name 13 HBís that are better:
    Forte, Jackson, McCoy, Foster, Rice, Peterson, Gore, Turner, McFadden, Jones-Drew, Steven Jackson, Ahmad Bradshaw, Chris Johnson. And there are a few more that are close like Mendenhall, Benson, Lynch.
    I think itís pretty safe to say that if we added any of those players and started them instead of Greene that we would at least get the same production out of any one of them. One of the things that I have notice about Greene is that he canít create his own hole, if the hole is closed heís not going anywhere. He doesnít have the speed to run around people and heís not a huge bruising back that will run through linebackers consistently. Greene is a one trick pony, he is not a threat as a receiver out of the backfield. I am actually praying that McKnight can show something out of the backfield b/c he would be a real threat to run or catch just like McCoy. Those are hefty aspirations but I can dream.

    ē [B]WR[/B]-This position you canít judge by stats b/c of the way we run our offense. Just based off of sheer talent Holmes IMO is probably bunched with guys like Desean Jackson, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall. Pretty much the bottom half of the top 10 WRís. Burress as a 2nd WR is pretty good. Heís really just hitting his stride and itís been a nice addition to the offense in recent weeks. If he keeps playing the way he has been he can be one of the better #2 WRís in the league. Kerley is really unknown at this point. Overall I believe our #1 and #2 WR make up for the 6th best #1/#2 WR tandem in the NFL behind (in no specific order) SD, PHI, GB, DAL and DET.

    ē [B]TE[/B]-I really believe that Keller is tremendously over rated by us as fans. I think he is a middle of the road TE. He consistently gets lost in games and is not as big a mismatch on the field as people make him out to be. He is not in the top 10 TEís in this game. He canít block and he canít create separation down the field. Like I mentioned before, my biggest problem with him is that he disappears for long stretches in games, the top TEís donít do that.

    ē [B]O-line[/B]-Granted I know that we have 2 all-proís on the line in Ferguson and Mangold but as an overall unit I would say they are average. Pass blocking has been a real big problem this year, even when Sanchez isnít getting sacked the bad protection is still forcing him to throw a lot of balls away and for him to move his feet a ton. This has a huge impact on the games and the QBís performance. Take a look at Bradyís last 2 games before us and you will see that even the best will perform badly if they donít have time in the pocket. We see what our own defense does to QBís at times, you canít expect Sanchez to be the 1 qb in the league who isnít affected by defenders in his face.

    ē As a unit on offense I would say we are slightly above average and what really pulls us down is the o-line. They have really struggled during pass blocking. Not having a better, more well rounded HB also puts more pressure on the o-line and QB. Look at the Bills, Jackson is having a tremendous year and if you compare our line to theirs you will see that Mangold, Moore and Ferguson are better than any of their lineman. Hunter and Slauson would be upgrades for their line as well. But b/c Jackson can make people miss, create plays on his own and is a threat out of the backfield it takes pressure off Fitzpatrick and the o-line. The WR spot is one of the better groups in the NFL in my opinion so thatís a positive. And you know my feelings on the TE position already. No reason to go through that again.

    I will wrap it up by saying that looking at the starting QBís in the league right now there are only 8 guys I would clearly choose over Sanchez and they are; Stafford, Rodgers, Schaub, Brady, Brees, Eli Manning, Vick and Roethlisberger. Obviously some may take more guys over Sanchez and some may disagree with some of my selections but overall you get the idea of what I am saying. Why is it that when people defend Tebow and his ridiculously ****ty play they make the excuse that heís a winner but when you bring up Sanchez, who is a better QB then Tebow will ever be, and how many games he has won that those fact gets discounted and brushed aside? Itís pretty interesting if you think about it. People who are calling for Sanchezí head also need to take a look at the QB play in this league right now and look very closely b/c then you may realize we donít have it so bad. Most teams would die for a QB who has 2000 yds and 14 tdís in 9 games. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Has he improved his comp % every year? Yes. Has he improved his td-int ratio every year? Yes b/c if you remember last year he led the league in dropped int. According to football outsiders he should have had 13 more int last year. Thatís more than double what any other QB had last year and most QBís had 4-5 dropped intís. There may have been 1 or 2 this year that were dropped. So he has vastly improved in that regard. There are many improvements that you can see from him this year from last. People who say that he hasnít improved donít know what they are talking about and most likely donít want to see improvements for one reason or another. Heís always going to make mistakes, just like every other QB in the league, but he is making a lot less mistakes from year to year. If you expected him to be Aaron Rodgers then Iím sorry but there are very few QBís who fit in that class. But the good thing is that you donít have to be Aaron Rodgers to be able to win a Super Bowl. Joe Namath sure as hell wasnít. You have to be a well rounded team in all aspects of the game. In other words if youíre expecting 40 tds and 4000 yds, go root for the Packers.

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    [QUOTE=Choon328;4233510][B] But the good thing is that you don’t have to be Aaron Rodgers to be able to win a Super Bowl. Joe Namath sure as hell wasn’t. [/B]You have to be a well rounded team in all aspects of the game. In other words if you’re expecting 40 tds and 4000 yds, go root for the Packers.[/QUOTE]

    If Rogers played with the lack of rules in the era Namath played he wouldn't be the QB he is today..

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    [QUOTE=Savage69;4233530]If Rogers played with the lack of rules in the era Namath played he wouldn't be the QB he is today..[/QUOTE]

    You have a point there. But even Namath managed the game in the Super Bowl. The defense, Snell and Turner led them to victory that day. The point was that you don't have to be the best QB in the league to win a Super Bowl.

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    [QUOTE=Choon328;4233536]You have a point there. But even Namath managed the game in the Super Bowl. The defense, Snell and Turner led them to victory that day. The point was that you don't have to be the best QB in the league to win a Super Bowl.[/QUOTE]

    I agree but fear of Namath's throwing ability made the running game go.. Also Maynard was hurt in the Oakland game that's why Sauer got most of Namath's passes..

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=Choon328;4233510]I hardly ever write or start topics anymore b/c I believe that the sad truth is that itís hard to write anything without getting attacked by cyber tough guys and thatís pretty annoying but that being said I decided to write a few comments down. There is one thing that Iím hearing lately that has bothered me a lot. And that is this idea that Sanchez has elite level or great players all around him on offense. This is one of the more absurd observations that I have heard in recent memory. My opinions are going to be just that, opinions. Letís go through it position by position:

    ē [B]HB[/B]-I think Greene is adequate. But I can name 13 HBís that are better:
    Forte, Jackson, McCoy, Foster, Rice, Peterson, Gore, Turner, McFadden, Jones-Drew, Steven Jackson, Ahmad Bradshaw, Chris Johnson. And there are a few more that are close like Mendenhall, Benson, Lynch.
    I think itís pretty safe to say that if we added any of those players and started them instead of Greene that we would at least get the same production out of any one of them. One of the things that I have notice about Greene is that he canít create his own hole, if the hole is closed heís not going anywhere. He doesnít have the speed to run around people and heís not a huge bruising back that will run through linebackers consistently. Greene is a one trick pony, he is not a threat as a receiver out of the backfield. I am actually praying that McKnight can show something out of the backfield b/c he would be a real threat to run or catch just like McCoy. Those are hefty aspirations but I can dream.

    ē [B]WR[/B]-This position you canít judge by stats b/c of the way we run our offense. Just based off of sheer talent Holmes IMO is probably bunched with guys like Desean Jackson, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall. Pretty much the bottom half of the top 10 WRís. Burress as a 2nd WR is pretty good. Heís really just hitting his stride and itís been a nice addition to the offense in recent weeks. If he keeps playing the way he has been he can be one of the better #2 WRís in the league. Kerley is really unknown at this point. Overall I believe our #1 and #2 WR make up for the 6th best #1/#2 WR tandem in the NFL behind (in no specific order) SD, PHI, GB, DAL and DET.

    ē [B]TE[/B]-I really believe that Keller is tremendously over rated by us as fans. I think he is a middle of the road TE. He consistently gets lost in games and is not as big a mismatch on the field as people make him out to be. He is not in the top 10 TEís in this game. He canít block and he canít create separation down the field. Like I mentioned before, my biggest problem with him is that he disappears for long stretches in games, the top TEís donít do that.

    ē [B]O-line[/B]-Granted I know that we have 2 all-proís on the line in Ferguson and Mangold but as an overall unit I would say they are average. Pass blocking has been a real big problem this year, even when Sanchez isnít getting sacked the bad protection is still forcing him to throw a lot of balls away and for him to move his feet a ton. This has a huge impact on the games and the QBís performance. Take a look at Bradyís last 2 games before us and you will see that even the best will perform badly if they donít have time in the pocket. We see what our own defense does to QBís at times, you canít expect Sanchez to be the 1 qb in the league who isnít affected by defenders in his face.

    ē As a unit on offense I would say we are slightly above average and what really pulls us down is the o-line. They have really struggled during pass blocking. Not having a better, more well rounded HB also puts more pressure on the o-line and QB. Look at the Bills, Jackson is having a tremendous year and if you compare our line to theirs you will see that Mangold, Moore and Ferguson are better than any of their lineman. Hunter and Slauson would be upgrades for their line as well. But b/c Jackson can make people miss, create plays on his own and is a threat out of the backfield it takes pressure off Fitzpatrick and the o-line. The WR spot is one of the better groups in the NFL in my opinion so thatís a positive. And you know my feelings on the TE position already. No reason to go through that again.

    I will wrap it up by saying that looking at the starting QBís in the league right now there are only 8 guys I would clearly choose over Sanchez and they are; Stafford, Rodgers, Schaub, Brady, Brees, Eli Manning, Vick and Roethlisberger. Obviously some may take more guys over Sanchez and some may disagree with some of my selections but overall you get the idea of what I am saying. Why is it that when people defend Tebow and his ridiculously ****ty play they make the excuse that heís a winner but when you bring up Sanchez, who is a better QB then Tebow will ever be, and how many games he has won that those fact gets discounted and brushed aside? Itís pretty interesting if you think about it. People who are calling for Sanchezí head also need to take a look at the QB play in this league right now and look very closely b/c then you may realize we donít have it so bad. Most teams would die for a QB who has 2000 yds and 14 tdís in 9 games. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Has he improved his comp % every year? Yes. Has he improved his td-int ratio every year? Yes b/c if you remember last year he led the league in dropped int. According to football outsiders he should have had 13 more int last year. Thatís more than double what any other QB had last year and most QBís had 4-5 dropped intís. There may have been 1 or 2 this year that were dropped. So he has vastly improved in that regard. There are many improvements that you can see from him this year from last. People who say that he hasnít improved donít know what they are talking about and most likely donít want to see improvements for one reason or another. Heís always going to make mistakes, just like every other QB in the league, but he is making a lot less mistakes from year to year. If you expected him to be Aaron Rodgers then Iím sorry but there are very few QBís who fit in that class. But the good thing is that you donít have to be Aaron Rodgers to be able to win a Super Bowl. Joe Namath sure as hell wasnít. You have to be a well rounded team in all aspects of the game. In other words if youíre expecting 40 tds and 4000 yds, go root for the Packers.[/QUOTE]

    Excellent. I find that Greene hits the hole okay, but he can't do much after that. He appears to be weaker then last year--not as powerful.

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    Great points. Seriously, and I agree with most of them. I think that the fault lies with the coaching, and specifically with the offensive (and yes, he is offensive) coordinator. It's been said a million times on this board already, but Schitty is not good at taking advantage of the tools he has at his disposal. :mad:

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    [QUOTE=shevys;4233554]Great points. Seriously, and I agree with most of them. I think that the fault lies with the coaching, and specifically with the offensive (and yes, he is offensive) coordinator. It's been said a million times on this board already, but Schitty is not good at taking advantage of the tools he has at his disposal. :mad:[/QUOTE]

    I hear ya. It's so redundant to blame Schotty but it's true. I've been saying it all year, I feel like the Jets try to force their will on opponents no matter what faults the other team has instead of game planning based on how they will be most successful against the team they are playing. There was a reason Roethlisberger threw the ball 50+ times against the Patriots 3 weeks ago.

    Ground and Pound as a philosophy works. If you're talking about being rough and tough. If you're talking about it meaning running the ball 30+ times no matter who you are playing then I think it's a terrible mistake to run a team like that. I remember when we played the Cowboys this year and after the game Schotty said Rex told him before the game that he wanted him to run the ball 30+ times. The problem with that is going into that game the Cowboys secondary was banged up just like the Pats were last night. So why would you game plan to run the ball 30+ times? I don't get it. It's almost like Schotty and Rex try to fool everybody when sometimes the answer is obvious and even though the other team may know what you are going to do they don't have the personnel to stop it. I think Rex needs to stay away from the offense b/c he has no clue how to game plan offensively.

  8. #8
    Good write up......I truly believe that Schotty does not use of all of the talent we have on offense to its fullest potential (Not close really)

    It really "feels" like we just run plays without actually thinking about exploiting defenses' weaknesses. The real good offenses in this league use their playmakers by finding mismatches and exploiting it.

    I cannot remember a game where I thought "Wow, that CB guarding Plaxico just could not match his size and physicality, great job by Schotty to isolate Plax on him and run plays to take advantage of that"

    Or how about "Gee, the linebackers just could not stick with McKnight out of the backfield.....Great job by Schotty to motion Mcknight to the slot or keep him inside and release him to the flats based off of what the defense was doing to get him in favorable one on one matchups with the opponents' slow linebackers in space"

    "Their outside linebackers just could not set the edge, it was a great job by Schotty to mix a lot of off tackle runs to help spring LT to the outside on those runs"

    Doesn't happen, ever.

    Seems like we just script our offensive plays, and run them regardless of what the defense opens up with/ changes to.......Absolutely no attempt to create mismatches or change our playcalls up to counter the defense
    Last edited by King Koopa; 11-15-2011 at 12:54 AM.

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    [QUOTE=rextilleon;4233553]Excellent. I find that Greene hits the hole okay, but he can't do much after that. He appears to be weaker then last year--not as powerful.[/QUOTE]

    Mcknight is gonna get more runs this week with LT hurt...i think that is a GREAT thing and we need to just run up the score early and hold the ball no more bull sh t...this is getting over the top for the old ticker. anymore games where we barely win or lose by a huge margin i will be in Mather hospital telling him my symptoms are the NY Jets....I actually know a guy whose doctor has made it clear to him that he is not allowed to watch the Mets because its bad for his health...lol...lets just get after it thursday fellas.:pileon::shoot:

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    [QUOTE=Choon328;4233510]I hardly ever write or start topics anymore b/c I believe that the sad truth is that itís hard to write anything without getting attacked by cyber tough guys and thatís pretty annoying but that being said I decided to write a few comments down. There is one thing that Iím hearing lately that has bothered me a lot. And that is this idea that Sanchez has elite level or great players all around him on offense. This is one of the more absurd observations that I have heard in recent memory. My opinions are going to be just that, opinions. Letís go through it position by position:

    ē [B]HB[/B]-I think Greene is adequate. But I can name 13 HBís that are better:
    Forte, Jackson, McCoy, Foster, Rice, Peterson, Gore, Turner, McFadden, Jones-Drew, Steven Jackson, Ahmad Bradshaw, Chris Johnson. And there are a few more that are close like Mendenhall, Benson, Lynch.
    I think itís pretty safe to say that if we added any of those players and started them instead of Greene that we would at least get the same production out of any one of them. One of the things that I have notice about Greene is that he canít create his own hole, if the hole is closed heís not going anywhere. He doesnít have the speed to run around people and heís not a huge bruising back that will run through linebackers consistently. Greene is a one trick pony, he is not a threat as a receiver out of the backfield. I am actually praying that McKnight can show something out of the backfield b/c he would be a real threat to run or catch just like McCoy. Those are hefty aspirations but I can dream.

    ē [B]WR[/B]-This position you canít judge by stats b/c of the way we run our offense. Just based off of sheer talent Holmes IMO is probably bunched with guys like Desean Jackson, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall. Pretty much the bottom half of the top 10 WRís. Burress as a 2nd WR is pretty good. Heís really just hitting his stride and itís been a nice addition to the offense in recent weeks. If he keeps playing the way he has been he can be one of the better #2 WRís in the league. Kerley is really unknown at this point. Overall I believe our #1 and #2 WR make up for the 6th best #1/#2 WR tandem in the NFL behind (in no specific order) SD, PHI, GB, DAL and DET.

    ē [B]TE[/B]-I really believe that Keller is tremendously over rated by us as fans. I think he is a middle of the road TE. He consistently gets lost in games and is not as big a mismatch on the field as people make him out to be. He is not in the top 10 TEís in this game. He canít block and he canít create separation down the field. Like I mentioned before, my biggest problem with him is that he disappears for long stretches in games, the top TEís donít do that.

    ē [B]O-line[/B]-Granted I know that we have 2 all-proís on the line in Ferguson and Mangold but as an overall unit I would say they are average. Pass blocking has been a real big problem this year, even when Sanchez isnít getting sacked the bad protection is still forcing him to throw a lot of balls away and for him to move his feet a ton. This has a huge impact on the games and the QBís performance. Take a look at Bradyís last 2 games before us and you will see that even the best will perform badly if they donít have time in the pocket. We see what our own defense does to QBís at times, you canít expect Sanchez to be the 1 qb in the league who isnít affected by defenders in his face.

    ē As a unit on offense I would say we are slightly above average and what really pulls us down is the o-line. They have really struggled during pass blocking. Not having a better, more well rounded HB also puts more pressure on the o-line and QB. Look at the Bills, Jackson is having a tremendous year and if you compare our line to theirs you will see that Mangold, Moore and Ferguson are better than any of their lineman. Hunter and Slauson would be upgrades for their line as well. But b/c Jackson can make people miss, create plays on his own and is a threat out of the backfield it takes pressure off Fitzpatrick and the o-line. The WR spot is one of the better groups in the NFL in my opinion so thatís a positive. And you know my feelings on the TE position already. No reason to go through that again.

    I will wrap it up by saying that looking at the starting QBís in the league right now there are only 8 guys I would clearly choose over Sanchez and they are; Stafford, Rodgers, Schaub, Brady, Brees, Eli Manning, Vick and Roethlisberger. Obviously some may take more guys over Sanchez and some may disagree with some of my selections but overall you get the idea of what I am saying. Why is it that when people defend Tebow and his ridiculously ****ty play they make the excuse that heís a winner but when you bring up Sanchez, who is a better QB then Tebow will ever be, and how many games he has won that those fact gets discounted and brushed aside? Itís pretty interesting if you think about it. People who are calling for Sanchezí head also need to take a look at the QB play in this league right now and look very closely b/c then you may realize we donít have it so bad. Most teams would die for a QB who has 2000 yds and 14 tdís in 9 games. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Has he improved his comp % every year? Yes. Has he improved his td-int ratio every year? Yes b/c if you remember last year he led the league in dropped int. According to football outsiders he should have had 13 more int last year. Thatís more than double what any other QB had last year and most QBís had 4-5 dropped intís. There may have been 1 or 2 this year that were dropped. So he has vastly improved in that regard. There are many improvements that you can see from him this year from last. People who say that he hasnít improved donít know what they are talking about and most likely donít want to see improvements for one reason or another. Heís always going to make mistakes, just like every other QB in the league, but he is making a lot less mistakes from year to year. If you expected him to be Aaron Rodgers then Iím sorry but there are very few QBís who fit in that class. But the good thing is that you donít have to be Aaron Rodgers to be able to win a Super Bowl. Joe Namath sure as hell wasnít. You have to be a well rounded team in all aspects of the game. In other words if youíre expecting 40 tds and 4000 yds, go root for the Packers.[/QUOTE]


    +1000...

    we all have a very "NY Jet fan" perspective on our players... outside of NY and if you are not a fan of the team most of our players are viewed as "average" at best.

    One measure of this (while not perfect) is how they are ranked when it comes to fantasy football preseason projections... we only had 1 skill player in the top 15 by positions... not Homes (22nd), Green (17th), or Sanchez (17th), only Keller (12th) ranked in the top 15...

    ...far from "ELITE" talent.

    I love the team but we need to be honest with ourselves...

  11. #11
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    Your best point is about Keller. He is not a very good TE. Couple that with the fact that we don't really have a good #2 TE and you run into problems for a QB.

    Keller just isn't the threat we thought he'd be and the fact that he's a subpar blocker makes it even worse. I like him, he's a starter and he's good but he's not a difference maker and I'd take half the TE's in the League over him right now, including both from NE. He's similar to Hernandez but not quite as athletic.

    Good thread, glad you decided to post it.

  12. #12
    While Sanchez has improved every season and is at least an average QB at this point in time, the one question you have to ask yourself is if he were not the Jet QB, if he played for some other team, same production, same numbers, would you be dying to have him on the Jets? Right now, the answer to that is probably no. True, he's having his best season and has had good games, he still hasn't taken that step where he can win us games because of excellent play. He's been solid to good in our wins, I don't think he's had a great game all year. My biggest issue with him is inconsistency. It seems like the AFC is there for the taking, but with his up and down play (and the divison now being just about lost), it's hard to see him putting together the type of strong 4 game run he would need to for us to win the title.

    Fans lack patience though, including myself, and I think we all expected a big leap in his play this season, and it's obvious that improvements he is showing are going to be very incremental. He may not be a great player until his 5th or 6th season (assuming he ever even gets to that level). It took Eli a while too. We just have to be patient, although Rex doesn't help matters when he proclaims Super Bowl every season and makes these big predictions.

  13. #13
    Sanchez's play has not been as bad as most are making it out to be. He has had plenty of help in losing games and quite honestly I don't think our WR Corp is nearly as good or consistent as it was last year.

  14. #14
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    Agree with your assessments of Greene and Keller. I said so at the beginning of the season when 'predictions' were solicited, and it seems to be turning out that way. Greene in particular is mediocre, and Keller is completely inconsistent.

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    Nice OP.... I agree with you on all of your points especially how they related to Sanchez. But I will say this if we don't get the proper coaching for him soon I think there is a real chance he will retrogress.....

    But again thanks for the post!!!!:yes:

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