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Thread: Attempting to Take an Objective View of the Jets

  1. #1
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    Attempting to Take an Objective View of the Jets

    If I were a Broncos fan that hadn't watched a single Jets game all year (only seen highlights), I'd probably evaluate the team in the following way:

    Don't throw the ball well
    Don't run the ball well
    Defense not as good as it was last year or the year before.



    Can we honestly say that any of those things aren't true?

  2. #2
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    But what would those same fans say about their own team?

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    [QUOTE=JB1089;4234044]If I were a Broncos fan that hadn't watched a single Jets game all year (only seen highlights), I'd probably evaluate the team in the following way:

    Don't throw the ball well
    Don't run the ball well
    Defense not as good as it was last year or the year before.



    Can we honestly say that any of those things aren't true?[/QUOTE]

    No one can honestly argue the first two. Greene is a decent back but nobody is scared of him, and Sanchez is a guy that no opposing team should think can beat them on his own. The Jets are capable of running the ball well, but not when teams can stack the box with little to no fear of being beaten over the top.

    As for the defense, I don't know. In spots they've looked worse than years past, but the three game stretch against Miami, SD and Buffalo showed some spurts of truly dominant defense. Who knows, if the Jets were able to score on that first drive and then Wilson was able to catch a ball that hit him in the numbers, maybe the defense has the momentum and lead to make life difficult for Brady.

    In the three games where the defense had a chance to preserve a second-half lead - a time when defenses usually shine - they got it done in a big way. But even if the defense is better, it's only marginally better, and there's no denying that the offense is pathetic.

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    [QUOTE=GreenWave;4234067]No one can honestly argue the first two. Greene is a decent back but nobody is scared of him, and Sanchez is a guy that no opposing team should think can beat them on his own. The Jets are capable of running the ball well, but not when teams can stack the box with little to no fear of being beaten over the top.

    As for the defense, I don't know. In spots they've looked worse than years past, but the three game stretch against Miami, SD and Buffalo showed some spurts of truly dominant defense. Who knows, if the Jets were able to score on that first drive and then Wilson was able to catch a ball that hit him in the numbers, maybe the defense has the momentum and lead to make life difficult for Brady.

    In the three games where the defense had a chance to preserve a second-half lead - a time when defenses usually shine - they got it done in a big way. But even if the defense is better, it's only marginally better, and there's no denying that the offense is pathetic.[/QUOTE]

    Good post. This is really what I'm looking for. How good are we really?

    It's hard to say because we're so inconsistent. Jets fans will point to the highs, fans of other teams to the lows.

  5. #5
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    The 2011 New York Jets (thus Far):

    23rd in Total Offense (Yards)
    20th in Passing Yards/Game
    24th in Rushing Yards/Game
    14th in Points/Per Game (A High Point)
    5th Worst in the NFL in Turnovers

    8th in Total Defense (Yards)
    8th in Passing Yards/Game
    15th in Rushing Yards/Game
    16th in Points Allowed/Game
    6th Best in the NFL (Tied) in Takeaways

    I'd love to know where we stand on "Points Allowed Off Turnovers", both directly (Pick 6/Fumble 6) and turnovers that leave the D in horrible spots (in our own Redzone). I'm bettign we'd be poorly ranked in this area in 2011.

    My view hasn't changed, the O is still the unit that is the main problem. The D this year is a step-back (a big one) from the past two, but is not getting much help all year long from the O, who consistently gives up points on turnovers (21 on Sunday wasn't it, between Sanchez and McKnight?), fails to score int he Red Zone, fails to score early, faisl to make drives when most needed, and makes many bad calls (poorly thought out timeouts, no clock management, etc).

    The D.....isn't what it was. It cannot make that big stop whenever it needs and on demand anymore. Safety is a horrible weakness, as is linebacker at times, and our pass rush is 100% manufactured most of the game (with a few developing bright spots for the future). But it's been consistently put in bad spots on limited rest all year long by the O, and I think thats wearing them down.

    Draw your own conclusions.
    Last edited by Warfish; 11-15-2011 at 11:08 AM.

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    [QUOTE=JB1089;4234044]If I were a Broncos fan that hadn't watched a single Jets game all year (only seen highlights), I'd probably evaluate the team in the following way:

    Don't throw the ball well
    Don't run the ball well
    Defense not as good as it was last year or the year before.



    Can we honestly say that any of those things aren't true?[/QUOTE]

    While you could objectively say those things, one thing I would probably notice about the Jets is that we are a more effective offense than our total yardage numbers would indicate. We seem to get a lot out of the good drives we have. We're good at scoring TDs instead of FGs when we drive it deep.

    The defense is no doubt the worst version since Rex has gotten here, although it's a little unclear why. The personnel is arguably the best we've ever had. We're just having too many off games this season. The 2nd Pats game and the raiders game in particular were inexcusable.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4234092]The 2011 New York Jets (thus Far):

    23rd in Total Offense (Yards)
    20th in Passing Yards/Game
    24th in Rushing Yards/Game
    14th in Points/Per Game (A High Point)
    5th Worst in the NFL in Turnovers

    8th in Total Defense (Yards)
    8th in Passing Yards/Game
    15th in Rushing Yards/Game
    16th in Points Allowed/Game
    6th Best in the NFL (Tied) in Takeaways

    I'd love to know where we stand on "Points Allowed Off Turnovers", both directly (Pick 6/Fumble 6) and turnovers that leave the D in horrible spots (in our own Redzone). I'm bettign we'd be poorly ranked in this area in 2011.

    My view hasn't changed, the O is still the unit that is the main problem. The D this year is a step-back (a big one) from the past two, but is not getting much help all year long from the O, who consistently gives up points on turnovers (21 on Sunday wasn't it, between Sanchez and McKnight?), fails to score int he Red Zone, fails to score early, faisl to make drives when most needed, and makes many bad calls (poorly thought out timeouts, no clock management, etc).

    The D.....isn't what it was. [B]It cannot make that big stop whenever it needs and on demand anymore.[/B] Safety is a horrible weakness, as is linebacker at times, and our pass rush is 100% manufactured most of the game (with a few developing bright spots for the future). But it's been consistently put in bad spots on limited rest all year long by the O, and I think thats wearing them down.

    Draw your own conclusions.[/QUOTE]

    I think we were able to get a number of stops against Buffalo and SD. The Pats game was more of an abberation. I know I might be crazy for feeling this way but we have been real good on 3rd down defensively this year as well. Just got killed by Brady as he does to most teams.

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    If I were a Denver fan, I'd probably think my D could get a pass rush on sanchez and force a couple turnovers from him. I'd also think the D could probably contain the Jets grund attack within reason.

    But I'd also think that the Jets D could be capable of forcing Tebow into the worst game of his career, which is saying something because he's had some awful ones. I wouldn't expect to be able to have a 5:1 run:pass ratio in this game and have success.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4234092]The 2011 New York Jets (thus Far):

    23rd in Total Offense (Yards)
    20th in Passing Yards/Game
    24th in Rushing Yards/Game
    14th in Points/Per Game (A High Point)
    5th Worst in the NFL in Turnovers

    8th in Total Defense (Yards)
    8th in Passing Yards/Game
    15th in Rushing Yards/Game
    16th in Points Allowed/Game
    6th Best in the NFL (Tied) in Takeaways

    I'd love to know where we stand on "Points Allowed Off Turnovers", both directly (Pick 6/Fumble 6) and turnovers that leave the D in horrible spots (in our own Redzone). I'm bettign we'd be poorly ranked in this area in 2011.

    My view hasn't changed, the O is still the unit that is the main problem. The D this year is a step-back (a big one) from the past two, but is not getting much help all year long from the O, who consistently gives up points on turnovers (21 on Sunday wasn't it, between Sanchez and McKnight?), fails to score int he Red Zone, fails to score early, faisl to make drives when most needed, and makes many bad calls (poorly thought out timeouts, no clock management, etc).

    The D.....isn't what it was. It cannot make that big stop whenever it needs and on demand anymore. Safety is a horrible weakness, as is linebacker at times, and our pass rush is 100% manufactured most of the game (with a few developing bright spots for the future). But it's been consistently put in bad spots on limited rest all year long by the O, and I think thats wearing them down.

    Draw your own conclusions.[/QUOTE]

    No drawing needed. This is it.

    Frustrating, the offense needs to wake the f up or gtfo.

    Good post.

  10. #10
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    I would argue we do have a good running game - circumstances have truly hurt the numbers.

    Looking at the Pats game - they were running the ball exceptionally well early on, getting 6 yards a pop but just as things got going, a sack would happen making is 2nd and 16 forcing them to move away from the running game. The game eventually got out of control and we had to forget the running game.

    It felt like if they could get a lead the running game could really take over. Unfortunately they never had a lead and the ball.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=SlickBri481;4234128]If I were a Denver fan, I'd probably think my D could get a pass rush on sanchez and force a couple turnovers from him. I'd also think the D could probably contain the Jets grund attack within reason.

    But I'd also think that the Jets D could be capable of forcing Tebow into the worst game of his career, which is saying something because he's had some awful ones. I wouldn't expect to be able to have a 5:1 run:pass ratio in this game and have success.[/QUOTE]

    I agree with what you're saying, but if I were a Denver fan I would also be saying we might be able to score 10 points - Can the Jets score more than that on the Denver defense?

    Denver has a shot - Tebow won't put up big numbers, but neither will Sanchez.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=fidelioion;4234164]I would argue we do have a good running game - circumstances have truly hurt the numbers.

    Looking at the Pats game - they were running the ball exceptionally well early on, getting 6 yards a pop but just as things got going, a sack would happen making is 2nd and 16 forcing them to move away from the running game. The game eventually got out of control and we had to forget the running game.

    It felt like if they could get a lead the running game could really take over. Unfortunately they never had a lead and the ball.[/QUOTE]

    There have been 4 games where we had the lead and went run heavy to close things out.

    [B]Jacksonville[/B]

    Greene: 16 carries, 49 yards
    Tomlinson: 6 carries, 8 yards
    McKnight: 6 carries, 14 yards



    [B]Miami[/B]

    Greene: 21 caries, 74 yards
    Tomlinson: 7 carries, 25 yards
    McKnight: n/a



    [B]San Diego[/B]

    Greene: 20 carries, 112 yards
    Tomlinson: 5 carries, 14 yards
    McKnight: 3 carries, 11 yards



    [B]Buffalo[/B]

    Greene: 19 carries, 76 yards
    Tomlinson: 5 carries, 18 yards
    McKnight: 9 carries, 27 yards


    [B]Totals[/B]

    Greene: 76 carries, 311 yards, 4.1 ypc
    Tomlinson: 23 carries, 65 yards, 2.8 ypc
    McKnight: 18 carries, 52 yards, 2.9 ypc

    117 carries, 428 yards, 3.7 ypc


    We don't run the ball well. No qualifiers.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=JB1089;4234230]There have been 4 games where we had the lead and went run heavy to close things out.

    [B]Jacksonville[/B]

    Greene: 16 carries, 49 yards
    Tomlinson: 6 carries, 8 yards
    McKnight: 6 carries, 14 yards



    [B]Miami[/B]

    Greene: 21 caries, 74 yards
    Tomlinson: 7 carries, 25 yards
    McKnight: n/a



    [B]San Diego[/B]

    Greene: 20 carries, 112 yards
    Tomlinson: 5 carries, 14 yards
    McKnight: 3 carries, 11 yards



    [B]Buffalo[/B]

    Greene: 19 carries, 76 yards
    Tomlinson: 5 carries, 18 yards
    McKnight: 9 carries, 27 yards


    [B]Totals[/B]

    Greene: 76 carries, 311 yards, 4.1 ypc
    Tomlinson: 23 carries, 65 yards, 2.8 ypc
    McKnight: 18 carries, 52 yards, 2.9 ypc

    117 carries, 428 yards, 3.7 ypc


    We don't run the ball well. No qualifiers.[/QUOTE]


    I don't see the point you're making. They won those 4 games - clearly what they where doing worked.

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