Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 46

Thread: How does elite QB play relate to Super Bowl wins?

  1. #1

    How does elite QB play relate to Super Bowl wins?

    This is something that is being overlooked a lot.

    So I wanted to post this:

    Here's a list:

    [B]Super Bowl 1.[/B] Bart Starr (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 2.[/B] Bart Starr (MVP), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 3.[/B] Joe Namath (MVP), 0 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 4.[/B] Len Dawson (MVP), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 5.[/B] John Unitas (Chuck Howley), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 6.[/B] Roger Staubach (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 7.[/B] Bob Griese (Jake Scott), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 8.[/B] Bob Griese (Larry Csonka), 0 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 9.[/B] Terry Bradshaw (Franco Harris), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 10.[/B] Terry Bradshaw (Lynn Swann), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 11.[/B] Ken Stabler (Fred Biletnikoff), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 12.[/B] Roger Staubach (Harvey Martin & Randy White), 0 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 13.[/B] Terry Bradshaw (MVP), 4 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 14.[/B] Terry Bradshaw (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 15.[/B] Jim Plunkett (MVP), 3 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 16.[/B] Joe Montana (MVP), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 17.[/B] Joe Theismann (John Riggins), 2 TDs,
    [B]Super Bowl 18.[/B] Jim Plunkett (Marcus Allen), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 19.[/B] Joe Montana (MVP), 3 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 20.[/B] Jim McMahon (Richard Dent), 0 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 21.[/B] Phil Simms (MVP), 3 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 22.[/B] Doug Williams (MVP), 4 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 23.[/B] Joe Montana (Jerry Rice), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 24.[/B] Joe Montana (MVP), 5 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 25.[/B] Jeff Hostetler (Ottis Anderson), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 26.[/B] Mark Rypien (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 27.[/B] Troy Aikman (MVP), 4 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 28.[/B] Troy Aikman (Emmitt Smith), O TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 29.[/B] Steve Young (MVP), 6 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 30.[/B] Troy Aikman (Larry Brown), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 31.[/B] Brett Favre (Desmond Howard), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 32.[/B] John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 33.[/B] John Elway (MVP), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 34.[/B] Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 35.[/B] Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 36.[/B] Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 37.[/B] Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 38.[/B] Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 39.[/B] Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 40.[/B] Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 41.[/B] Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 42.[/B] Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 43:[/B] Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 44:[/B] Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 45:[/B] Aaron Rodgers (MVP), 3 TDs

    This list is stacked with Hall of Famers.

    But are they Hall of Famers because of their Super Bowl win(s) or are would they be anyway? How many of these guys would you consider elite?

    It's a question worth asking yourself.

    Even if you narrow this down to a smaller sample size and arbitrarily go back 20 years to SB 25, Hostetler and Dilfer are far and away the worst guys on the list, but Dilfer played with arguably the best defense of all time and that Giants team won on a missed field goal........(and also had an insanely good running game and defense).

    My point is:

    Is Mark Sanchez elite and if not, will he be? Outside of a few outliers, nearly every QB on this list was capable of carrying his offense nearly single-handedly, statistically speaking.

    This is the question I asked myself and I just don't see it.

    The nearest parallel is Eli or Rodgers, and a certain point in time, both of those QB's had carried the load on offense during the regular season. Sanchez in 3 years of starting for us has not shown that.

    And he's eating $17 million against the cap this year. So considering that, we need to either treat him like Dilfer and give Rex stellar defensive personnel, which has degraded since 2009, and a better running game/run blocking line, which has also degraded since 2009. At least logically speaking.

    For what it's worth, we can't do much for 2011, but moving forward, before you blindly support Sanchez, ask yourself if you think he will ever reach the level of Rodgers, Aikman, or Montana, guys that could carry their team, or if he will end up a game manager like Dilfer.......either way, from my perspective, he either needs to start showing some flashes or we need to start running the football 30+ times a game like in 2009 no matter what the score is............

  2. #2
    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4234068]This is something that is being overlooked a lot.

    So I wanted to post this:

    Here's a list:

    [B]Super Bowl 1.[/B] Bart Starr (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 2.[/B] Bart Starr (MVP), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 3.[/B] Joe Namath (MVP), 0 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 4.[/B] Len Dawson (MVP), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 5.[/B] John Unitas (Chuck Howley), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 6.[/B] Roger Staubach (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 7.[/B] Bob Griese (Jake Scott), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 8.[/B] Bob Griese (Larry Csonka), 0 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 9.[/B] Terry Bradshaw (Franco Harris), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 10.[/B] Terry Bradshaw (Lynn Swann), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 11.[/B] Ken Stabler (Fred Biletnikoff), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 12.[/B] Roger Staubach (Harvey Martin & Randy White), 0 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 13.[/B] Terry Bradshaw (MVP), 4 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 14.[/B] Terry Bradshaw (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 15.[/B] Jim Plunkett (MVP), 3 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 16.[/B] Joe Montana (MVP), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 17.[/B] Joe Theismann (John Riggins), 2 TDs,
    [B]Super Bowl 18.[/B] Jim Plunkett (Marcus Allen), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 19.[/B] Joe Montana (MVP), 3 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 20.[/B] Jim McMahon (Richard Dent), 0 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 21.[/B] Phil Simms (MVP), 3 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 22.[/B] Doug Williams (MVP), 4 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 23.[/B] Joe Montana (Jerry Rice), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 24.[/B] Joe Montana (MVP), 5 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 25.[/B] Jeff Hostetler (Ottis Anderson), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 26.[/B] Mark Rypien (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 27.[/B] Troy Aikman (MVP), 4 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 28.[/B] Troy Aikman (Emmitt Smith), O TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 29.[/B] Steve Young (MVP), 6 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 30.[/B] Troy Aikman (Larry Brown), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 31.[/B] Brett Favre (Desmond Howard), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 32.[/B] John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 33.[/B] John Elway (MVP), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 34.[/B] Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 35.[/B] Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 36.[/B] Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 37.[/B] Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 38.[/B] Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 39.[/B] Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 40.[/B] Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 41.[/B] Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 42.[/B] Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 43:[/B] Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
    [B]Super Bowl 44:[/B] Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
    [B]Super Bowl 45:[/B] Aaron Rodgers (MVP), 3 TDs

    This list is stacked with Hall of Famers.

    But are they Hall of Famers because of their Super Bowl win(s) or are would they be anyway? How many of these guys would you consider elite?

    It's a question worth asking yourself.

    Even if you narrow this down to a smaller sample size and arbitrarily go back 20 years to SB 25, Hostetler and Dilfer are far and away the worst guys on the list, but Dilfer played with arguably the best defense of all time and that Giants team won on a missed field goal........(and also had an insanely good running game and defense).

    My point is:

    Is Mark Sanchez elite and if not, will he be? Outside of a few outliers, nearly every QB on this list was capable of carrying his offense nearly single-handedly, statistically speaking.

    This is the question I asked myself and I just don't see it.

    The nearest parallel is Eli or Rodgers, and a certain point in time, both of those QB's had carried the load on offense during the regular season. Sanchez in 3 years of starting for us has not shown that.

    And he's eating $17 million against the cap this year. So considering that, we need to either treat him like Dilfer and give Rex stellar defensive personnel, which has degraded since 2009, and a better running game/run blocking line, which has also degraded since 2009. At least logically speaking.

    For what it's worth, we can't do much for 2011, but moving forward, before you blindly support Sanchez, ask yourself if you think he will ever reach the level of Rodgers, Aikman, or Montana, guys that could carry their team, or if he will end up a game manager like Dilfer.......either way, from my perspective, he either needs to start showing some flashes or we need to start running the football 30+ times a game like in 2009 no matter what the score is............[/QUOTE]

    Take all these guys BACK to their third year and then recalculate thoughts........

  3. #3
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    12,826
    [QUOTE] Is Mark Sanchez elite and if not, will he be? [/QUOTE]

    No and maybe.

    Personally I now have doubts he will ever turn the corner and be the guy that consitently WINS games for us, rather than not lose them.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=aagarcia;4234078]Take all these guys BACK to their third year and then recalculate thoughts........[/QUOTE]

    I agree, to a point. I will say that by his 3rd year, Eli had shown some flashes as had Big Ben.

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=RaoulDuke;4234082]No and maybe.

    Personally I now have doubts he will ever turn the corner and be the guy that consitently WINS games for us, rather than not lose them.[/QUOTE]

    His ability to ultimately turn that corner is what will determine the future of this team.

  6. #6
    Take it back a third year with out a OC.
    Or a young inexperienced OC and see how those QB'S would do.

    That rumors had him (OC) blaming the QB for the lack of offensive production
    basically to make the OC"S capabilities look good.
    Its weak and this OC has damaged this QB"S future .

  7. #7
    I wrote this a few months ago during a back and forth with a few of my friends. I decided to save it, figuring that I'd eventually post it on here.
    ______________________________________________________


    Tom Brady's career playoff QB rating is currently an 85.6, if I remember correctly.

    Peyton Manning's is actually higher, even though he was bad the year that they won the Super Bowl, and had those awful games in the snow in New England and against the Jets at the Meadowlands.

    Neither one of them can touch Joe Montana's 95.6 playoff QB rating. From 88-90, Montana had 8 consecutive playoff games with a rating over 100. In that stretch he threw 22 TD passes and just 2 INTs.


    Because Brady has become a great QB, he is now given credit for being great in games where it was the defense that carried the team to the win. Brady has six 100+ rating playoff games in his career. Montana had 12.

    Question: How many quarterbacks have won a Super Bowl by throwing 1 TD pass in the entire postseason?

    (It's not Dilfer, he threw 3)




    My goal is not to denigrate Brady, but to show the penchant for revisionist history that plagues the sports world. In particular, my crosshairs are trained on the "Football for Dummies" school of thought that ESPN is forcing down everyone's throats right now: The quarterback is the team; and you need an elite one to win a Super Bowl.

    2010: Aaron Rodgers was an elite QB, and had an elite year.

    2009: Drew Brees was (is, and will continue to be) an almost elite QB, but had an elite year.

    2008: Ben Roethlisberger had the 2nd worst year of his career, posting an 80.1 qb rating. He played much better in the playoffs, but his "elite" play was contained to the final drive of the Super Bowl. A drive that wouldn't have mattered without the James Harrison 100 yard INT return.

    2007: Eli Manning had the 2nd worst year of his career, posting a 73.9 qb rating. Eli is great now, he was not great then, and didn't make the leap until 2009 (when, oddly enough, the Giants struggled). He threw 20 INTs during the regular season, so the Giants asked him to "not lose the game" in the playoffs, up until his last drive in the Super Bowl, which included a dropped gimme INT and one of the 2 most miraculous catches in NFL history.

    2006: Peyton Manning was an elite QB, that had an elite regular season. But he **** the bed in the playoffs. He threw 3 picks in the Wildcard round against the Chiefs. Had another 2 against the Ravens in the divisional round, where he had a 39.6 qb rating (How many QBs have won a playoff game with a 39.6 rating?). Manning won the Super Bowl in the AFCCG. After a terrible 1st half against the Pats that included a pick-6, he did what only an elite QB could have done and rallied his team from an 18 point deficit to advance to the Super Bowl. He only threw 1 TD pass and had a rating of just 79, but that doesn't reflect his play in the 2nd half. He was 'meh' in the Super Bowl (81.8), but Grossman played like Grossman (2 picks, 1 pick-6, 2 fumbles) and he got the monkey off his back.

    Manning was an elite QB, but the Colts didn't win this Super Bowl because of him. If he wasn't Peyton Manning, people would only remember how great the defense played (and they were great in the playoffs).

    2005: Does anyone want to make the argument that year 2 Roethlisberger was elite? The Steelers were last in the league in pass attempts this year, but were first in rushing attempts. Roethlisberger did play well in the playoffs, until the 22.9 rating he had in the Super Bowl.

    2004: Tom Brady was elite and had an elite season.This was the best postseason that he had in his career.

    2003: Brady was a good QB, he had a good year (85.9 rating, 6.9 ypa). The defense was fantastic. He played 2 mediocre games as the Patriots advanced to the Super Bowl (73.3 and 76.1).

    Up until this point in his career, the defense had carried Brady and the Patriots. He was throwing for 225 yard per game. He was firmly in the "good young quarterback" category. In the Super Bowl, the great Patriots defense, after a 1st quarter in which nothing happened, was torched by Jake Delhomme. The Patriots running game was shut down, and Brady had to throw 48 times for 354 yards and 3 TDs in order to pull out the game. You know that I've always maintained that this was [I]the game[/I] where Brady became elite. It was after this game that the talking heads began to look around and say "I know we all love Peyton Manning, but this Brady kid already has 2 rings," and the winning vs. numbers debate began. I don't remember anyone who had Brady and Manning on the same level until this game.

    2002: Brad Johnson. Efficient, not elite. You can't be elite when you're 16th in the league in yards per attempt. Brad Johnson's great talent, for one year, was not throwing INTs.....until the playoffs started. He only threw 6 INTs during the regular season, then threw 3 in 3 games in the playoffs. Johnson completed 54% of his passes in the playoffs and had an 80 QB rating.

    2001: "Who's this Brady kid? How do the Patriots keep winning?" --The football world

    We don't have to talk about this one, do we?

    I'll continue to argue that, if given the choice, you're better off with a great defense and an average QB than with an average defense and a great QB.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4234095]I agree, to a point. I will say that by his 3rd year, Eli had shown some flashes as had Big Ben.[/QUOTE]

    Through 39 games:

    [B]300 yard games[/B]

    Roethliserger: 4
    Manning: 4
    Sanchez: 5


    [B]3 TD games[/B]

    Roethliserger: 3
    Manning: 6
    Sanchez: 4

    [B]Multi INT games[/B]

    Roethliserger: 13
    Manning: 13
    Sanchez: 10




    So if you're talking about "flashes," I'm not seeing much difference there. Memories are faulty, you don't remember how Eli and Roethlisberger were before they were great.

  9. #9
    Tim Tebow vs. Mark Sanchez

    First 16 games of their careers:

    Sanchez 54.4% 2883 yards (2779 throwing/104 rushing), [B]17 tds (14 throwing/3 rushing), 21 ints, 12 fumbles - QB rating in the 60s.[/B]

    Tebow 47.1%, 1806 yards (1259 throwing/547 rushing), [B]20 tds (12 throwing, 8 rushing), 4 ints, 5 fumbles QB rating in the 80s.[/B]

    Mods - please dont put in the garbage, this is a serious comparison.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=Monsterxman;4234140]Tim Tebow vs. Mark Sanchez

    First 16 games of their careers:

    Sanchez 54.4% 2883 yards (2779 throwing/104 rushing), [B]17 tds (14 throwing/3 rushing), 21 ints, 12 fumbles - QB rating in the 60s.[/B]

    Tebow [B]47.1%, 1806 yards[/B] (1259 throwing/547 rushing), [B]20 tds (12 throwing, 8 rushing), 4 ints, 5 fumbles QB rating in the 80s.[/B]

    Mods - please dont put in the garbage, this is a serious comparison.[/QUOTE]

    Let's make a list of QBs that completed less than 50% of their passes and threw for less 2000 yards in their first 16 games and won a Super Bowl:

    .......
    .......
    .......
    .......

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4234095]I agree, to a point. I will say that by his 3rd year, Eli had shown some flashes as had Big Ben.[/QUOTE]

    Elli had a 73 QB Rating in his FOURTH year and had 20 INts and 23 TDs. Giant fans were calling for him to be benched early in the Super Bowl run year when he started off slowly.

    Aaron Rodgers was given 3 years to learn the NFL before he was thrown into the fire at which point he had a 71 QB rating in his 4th year in the NFL (First year starting).

    Freeman, Flacco, Rivers, Ryan, Bradford all suck this year.

    Perspective

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=JB1089;4234149]Let's make a list of QBs that completed less than 50% of their passes and threw for less 2000 yards in their first 16 games and won a Super Bowl:

    .......
    .......
    .......
    .......[/QUOTE]


    I agree
    Im not saying Tebow is a world beater, just that in many ways his stats are better than Sanchez, who up that point was only completing in the low 50%s himself.

    In todays NFL, theres no excuse for not being 60%+ its bare minimum to having a chance of being a successful/decent QB.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Monsterxman;4234140]Tim Tebow vs. Mark Sanchez

    First 16 games of their careers:

    Sanchez 54.4% 2883 yards (2779 throwing/104 rushing), [B]17 tds (14 throwing/3 rushing), 21 ints, 12 fumbles - QB rating in the 60s.[/B]

    Tebow 47.1%, 1806 yards (1259 throwing/547 rushing), [B]20 tds (12 throwing, 8 rushing), 4 ints, 5 fumbles QB rating in the 80s.[/B]

    Mods - please dont put in the garbage, this is a serious comparison.[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE=JB1089;4234149]Let's make a list of QBs that completed less than 50% of their passes and threw for less 2000 yards in their first 16 games and won a Super Bowl:

    .......
    .......
    .......
    .......[/QUOTE]

    My bad, Tebow hasn't played 16 games yet, I was taking your word for it.

    I will say that in his 7 starts, Tebow has completed 50% of his passes twice, and has never completed more than 55%.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=revischrist;4234153]Elli had a 73 QB Rating in his FOURTH year and had 20 INts and 23 TDs. Giant fans were calling for him to be benched early in the Super Bowl run year when he started off slowly.

    [B]Aaron Rodgers was given 3 years to learn the NFL before he was thrown into the fire at which point he had a 71 QB rating in his 4th year in the NFL (First year starting). [/B]

    Freeman, Flacco, Rivers, Ryan, Bradford all suck this year.

    Perspective[/QUOTE]

    Rodgers had a 93.8 QB rating his first year starting.

  15. #15
    Jets Insider VIP
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Naples FL
    Posts
    43,134
    [QUOTE=revischrist;4234153]Elli had a 73 QB Rating in his FOURTH year and had 20 INts and 23 TDs. Giant fans were calling for him to be benched early in the Super Bowl run year when he started off slowly.

    Aaron Rodgers was given 3 years to learn the NFL before he was thrown into the fire at which point he had a 71 QB rating in his 4th year in the NFL (First year starting).

    Freeman, Flacco, Rivers, Ryan, Bradford all suck this year.

    Perspective[/QUOTE]

    Peyton Manning avg 20 picks a year his first 4 years and in his 5th year got killed by Chaddy and the Jets 41-0 in the playoffs..It took him 9 years to win a Bowl and lost his next chance with a pick 6.. Jet fans would have had him shot after year 4 if not sooner..:yes:

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=JB1089;4234158]My bad, Tebow hasn't played 16 games yet, I was taking your word for it.

    I will say that in his 7 starts, Tebow has completed 50% of his passes twice, and has never completed more than 55%.[/QUOTE]

    7 games isn't enough of a sample size, so I was comparing their first 16 games they played in.

    Surprisingly enough the stats still favored Tebow, whom everyone agrees is not a "real" NFL QB.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=JB1089;4234160]Rodgers had a 93.8 QB rating his first year starting.[/QUOTE]

    Correct, my bad. Not sure where I saw the 71. Either way, the other points stand.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Monsterxman;4234163]7 games isn't enough of a sample size, so I was comparing their first 16 games they played in.

    Surprisingly enough the stats still favored Tebow, whom everyone agrees is not a "real" NFL QB.[/QUOTE]

    Tebow hasn't played 16 games, he's played 13, and he's only started 7 of those games.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=JB1089;4234120]I wrote this a few months ago during a back and forth with a few of my friends. I decided to save it, figuring that I'd eventually post it on here.
    ______________________________________________________


    Tom Brady's career playoff QB rating is currently an 85.6, if I remember correctly.

    Peyton Manning's is actually higher, even though he was bad the year that they won the Super Bowl, and had those awful games in the snow in New England and against the Jets at the Meadowlands.

    Neither one of them can touch Joe Montana's 95.6 playoff QB rating. From 88-90, Montana had 8 consecutive playoff games with a rating over 100. In that stretch he threw 22 TD passes and just 2 INTs.


    Because Brady has become a great QB, he is now given credit for being great in games where it was the defense that carried the team to the win. Brady has six 100+ rating playoff games in his career. Montana had 12.

    Question: How many quarterbacks have won a Super Bowl by throwing 1 TD pass in the entire postseason?

    (It's not Dilfer, he threw 3)




    My goal is not to denigrate Brady, but to show the penchant for revisionist history that plagues the sports world. In particular, my crosshairs are trained on the "Football for Dummies" school of thought that ESPN is forcing down everyone's throats right now: The quarterback is the team; and you need an elite one to win a Super Bowl.

    2010: Aaron Rodgers was an elite QB, and had an elite year.

    2009: Drew Brees was (is, and will continue to be) an almost elite QB, but had an elite year.

    2008: Ben Roethlisberger had the 2nd worst year of his career, posting an 80.1 qb rating. He played much better in the playoffs, but his "elite" play was contained to the final drive of the Super Bowl. A drive that wouldn't have mattered without the James Harrison 100 yard INT return.

    2007: Eli Manning had the 2nd worst year of his career, posting a 73.9 qb rating. Eli is great now, he was not great then, and didn't make the leap until 2009 (when, oddly enough, the Giants struggled). He threw 20 INTs during the regular season, so the Giants asked him to "not lose the game" in the playoffs, up until his last drive in the Super Bowl, which included a dropped gimme INT and one of the 2 most miraculous catches in NFL history.

    2006: Peyton Manning was an elite QB, that had an elite regular season. But he **** the bed in the playoffs. He threw 3 picks in the Wildcard round against the Chiefs. Had another 2 against the Ravens in the divisional round, where he had a 39.6 qb rating (How many QBs have won a playoff game with a 39.6 rating?). Manning won the Super Bowl in the AFCCG. After a terrible 1st half against the Pats that included a pick-6, he did what only an elite QB could have done and rallied his team from an 18 point deficit to advance to the Super Bowl. He only threw 1 TD pass and had a rating of just 79, but that doesn't reflect his play in the 2nd half. He was 'meh' in the Super Bowl (81.8), but Grossman played like Grossman (2 picks, 1 pick-6, 2 fumbles) and he got the monkey off his back.

    Manning was an elite QB, but the Colts didn't win this Super Bowl because of him. If he wasn't Peyton Manning, people would only remember how great the defense played (and they were great in the playoffs).

    2005: Does anyone want to make the argument that year 2 Roethlisberger was elite? The Steelers were last in the league in pass attempts this year, but were first in rushing attempts. Roethlisberger did play well in the playoffs, until the 22.9 rating he had in the Super Bowl.

    2004: Tom Brady was elite and had an elite season.This was the best postseason that he had in his career.

    2003: Brady was a good QB, he had a good year (85.9 rating, 6.9 ypa). The defense was fantastic. He played 2 mediocre games as the Patriots advanced to the Super Bowl (73.3 and 76.1).

    Up until this point in his career, the defense had carried Brady and the Patriots. He was throwing for 225 yard per game. He was firmly in the "good young quarterback" category. In the Super Bowl, the great Patriots defense, after a 1st quarter in which nothing happened, was torched by Jake Delhomme. The Patriots running game was shut down, and Brady had to throw 48 times for 354 yards and 3 TDs in order to pull out the game. You know that I've always maintained that this was [I]the game[/I] where Brady became elite. It was after this game that the talking heads began to look around and say "I know we all love Peyton Manning, but this Brady kid already has 2 rings," and the winning vs. numbers debate began. I don't remember anyone who had Brady and Manning on the same level until this game.

    2002: Brad Johnson. Efficient, not elite. You can't be elite when you're 16th in the league in yards per attempt. Brad Johnson's great talent, for one year, was not throwing INTs.....until the playoffs started. He only threw 6 INTs during the regular season, then threw 3 in 3 games in the playoffs. Johnson completed 54% of his passes in the playoffs and had an 80 QB rating.

    2001: "Who's this Brady kid? How do the Patriots keep winning?" --The football world

    We don't have to talk about this one, do we?

    I'll continue to argue that, if given the choice, you're better off with a great defense and an average QB than with an average defense and a great QB.[/QUOTE]

    Definitely a viable point, but if all these QB's are in the Hall of Fame simply from winning a Super Bowl, then how come Doug Williams isn't a Hall of Famer?

    You can point to individual games or that in what you can call the "modern era," and state that defense does become more important in the post season, but ESPN is right in that it's not blind irony that so many of these QB's are or were what can be considered elite, even if they didn't necessarily have a great Super Bowl game itself.

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=Savage69;4234162]Peyton Manning avg 20 picks a year his first 4 years and in his 5th year got killed by Chaddy and the Jets 41-0 in the playoffs..It took him 9 years to win a Bowl and lost his next chance with a pick 6.. Jet fans would have had him shot after year 4 if not sooner..:yes:[/QUOTE]

    Bingo. Thank God you guys do all the leg work. I'm too lazy to look back at stats.
    The last few posts have been outstanding.
    Ultimately though, you are wasting your time with the op.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us