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Thread: Afghanistan

  1. #1
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    Afghanistan

    [QUOTE]Karzai aims to set limits on American troops

    By Nick Paton Walsh and Masoud Popalzai, CNN

    Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Afghan President Hamid Karzai sought to set limits on what American and NATO troops could -- and could not -- do in his country Wednesday in a lengthy speech to tribal elders.

    "America is powerful, has more money, but we are lions here. Lions have the habit of not liking strangers getting into their house," Karzai said.

    "We want our sovereignty from today. Our relations should be between two independent countries," he said in a speech that appears to have been designed to boost his nationalist credentials with a domestic audience.

    He was also broadly critical of NATO, saying the intended departure of NATO troops in 2014 was "good for Afghans."

    NATO plans to withdraw most combat troops by that date, but is currently negotiating what sort of long-term presence they might have here.

    Karzai called the national assembly, or loya jirga, to sound out tribal elders on a long-term pact with the US military and harness their consent.

    The conditions Karzai spelled out on a long-term foreign military presence were mostly formalizations of long-held Afghan complaints about the international presence here.

    "I'd like to tell them they can't arrest any Afghan on our soil and they can't have prisons. We have a justice and security system and that is up to us," he said.

    He said he thought a deal that enabled US forces to have bases in Afghanistan was beneficial but added they would not be able to attack Afghanistan's neighbors from inside the country, conduct night raids, search houses, or arrest Afghans.

    He also said that night raids by foreign troops must stop completely and that NATO troops should not be allowed to search people's houses - complaints that have already prompted NATO to adjust its operations and incorporate greater Afghan assistance.

    The speech was made before an audience who in part -- like many Afghans -- are skeptical of both his alliance with NATO and his leadership in general.

    He was also keen to court Iran - and perhaps its supporters in the audience of elders - by saying: "We want to say that Iran is our brother. During the years of jihad, Iran has been one of the best countries for hospitality for Afghans. They are our brother."

    He also voiced fears that Afghanistan could see the same instability and collapse witnessed after the Soviet withdrawal in the late 80s.

    The loya jirga, or national assembly, is considered by many an important step towards any possible peace deal with elements of the insurgency.

    Hundreds of community leaders have been invited from across the country, with the meeting a test of Karzai's potency as a cohesive leader.

    The turnout Wednesday was considerable.

    Troops, security officials, and police lined the roads outside the loya jirga tent, near the Intercontinental Hotel on the capital's outskirts.

    The Taliban have long threatened to disrupt the event.

    On Monday, security forces killed a suicide bomber near the meeting site. The attacker was wearing a suit and carrying a briefcase when he was stopped, said General Ayoub Salangi, chief of Kabul police.

    On Sunday, a Taliban-affiliated website published what it claimed was a leaked document containing confidential government security plans for the meeting.

    The leaked security plans included a detailed satellite map of the area and purported details of the security arrangements, but the Interior Ministry immediately dismissed them as fake.[/QUOTE]

    Why are we still there?

    Is not Iraq and Afghanistan perfect examples that Neo-Con Style "Nation Building" and "Bringing Democracy" is not, in fact, as workable or possible as thought, and certainly the end result is not going to be in OUR best interests?

    Combine with Egypt and LIbya, where we pushed out Tyrants, and allowed different enemies to take their place, show that the U.S. just isn't very good at trying to tell other Nations what to do, and ensuring OUR interests matter?

    Iraq, Billions Spent, Lives lost, for a Nation who doesn;t like us that much and is moving towards Iran.

    Afghanistan, billions spent, lives lost, for a Nation that doesn;t like us much and is moving towards Iran.

    Egypt, a pro-American Tyrant removed, replaced by a Millitary Dictatorship and Fundamentalist Islamic Political Majority.

    Libya, terorist Tyrant removed, replaced by a Fundamentalist Islamic Political Majority.

    Is there any belief that any of these four will be real Allies in a few years? Do any of yout hink we won't see terrorist threats coming from these countries again in a few years?

    What is the return on our Investments in these countries, exactly? How has the American taxpayer benefitted from our actions there?

    Cause I'm not seeing it.

  2. #2
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    Recent discoveries of HUGE amounts of rare earth elements. China's 90%+ share is going to take a hit.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4235348]Why are we still there?
    [/QUOTE]

    we are still there because ending these conflicts is alot harder than starting them

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    [QUOTE=Jets Things;4235353]Recent discoveries of HUGE amounts of rare earth elements. China's 90%+ share is going to take a hit.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah...they already sold the mining contracts to India and China. F*ck us....all we did was pay in blood to topple a bloody regime that put it's boot in the throat of it's people.

    Great way to thank us.


    A**holes. We should just take it for ourselves...

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4235368]Yeah...they already sold the mining contracts to India and China. F*ck us....all we did was pay in blood to topple a bloody regime that put it's boot in the throat of it's people.

    Great way to thank us.


    A**holes. [B]We should just take it for ourselve[/B]s...[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I gotta agree with you on this.

    At least rare earth prices are dropping. Won't have to pay as much to lease a 52" LCD.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=Jets Things;4235376]Yeah, I gotta agree with you on this.

    At least rare earth prices are dropping. Won't have to pay as much to lease a 52" LCD.[/QUOTE]

    Very true...

    ...plus with heroin prices dropping so much because of Afghan production, your 52" will seem like a 252" covered in bugs and coming to kill you and your family. :yes:

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4235389]Very true...

    ...plus with heroin prices dropping so much because of Afghan production, your 52" will seem like a 252" covered in bugs and coming to kill you and your family. :yes:[/QUOTE]

    I have to be careful, though. Already ruined a few flatscreens. Apparently they don't react well when Raid is sprayed at them.

  8. #8
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    You have to hand it to the Afghanis. For a loosely based, largely nomadic people, they've been able to defeat three massive empires - the Brits, the Soviets, and us.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=Bonhomme Richard;4235445]You have to hand it to the Afghanis. For a loosely based, largely nomadic people, they've been able to defeat three massive empires - the Brits, the Soviets, and us.[/QUOTE]

    Nothing Worth Destroying + Limited Care For Human Life + Religious Fundamanetalism + Almost No Education Amongst the Masses + Tribal System and Warlords + Most Rugged Terrain on Earth = Win for Them

    That kind of Country is rather hard to defeat, or do anything worthwhile with tbqh.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=Bonhomme Richard;4235445]You have to hand it to the Afghanis. For a loosely based, largely nomadic people, they've been able to defeat three massive empires - the Brits, the Soviets, and us.[/QUOTE]

    those that do not heed the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4235476]those that do not heed the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them[/QUOTE]

    Right.

    Next time we know what we need to do.

    Obliterate it.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4235484]Right.

    Next time we know what we need to do.

    Obliterate it.[/QUOTE]

    How would you be able to tell the difference?

  13. #13
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    ^ ^ the entire rare earth global industry won't be worth more than (I think - it's around this mark) $10 billion by the year 2013. It's a micro industry - if that's the excuse for staying in Afghanistan its a poor one.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=Trades;4235507]How would you be able to tell the difference?[/QUOTE]

    Future inhabitants run the risk of catching Lymphoma within a few weeks of arriving to the barrenness wasteland.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4235348]Why are we still there?

    Is not Iraq and Afghanistan perfect examples that Neo-Con Style "Nation Building" and "Bringing Democracy" is not, in fact, as workable or possible as thought, and certainly the end result is not going to be in OUR best interests?

    Combine with Egypt and LIbya, where we pushed out Tyrants, and allowed different enemies to take their place, show that the U.S. just isn't very good at trying to tell other Nations what to do, and ensuring OUR interests matter?

    Iraq, Billions Spent, Lives lost, for a Nation who doesn;t like us that much and is moving towards Iran.

    Afghanistan, billions spent, lives lost, for a Nation that doesn;t like us much and is moving towards Iran.

    Egypt, a pro-American Tyrant removed, replaced by a Millitary Dictatorship and Fundamentalist Islamic Political Majority.

    Libya, terorist Tyrant removed, replaced by a Fundamentalist Islamic Political Majority.

    Is there any belief that any of these four will be real Allies in a few years? Do any of yout hink we won't see terrorist threats coming from these countries again in a few years?

    What is the return on our Investments in these countries, exactly? How has the American taxpayer benefitted from our actions there?

    Cause I'm not seeing it.[/QUOTE]


    lol

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