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Thread: Rex vs Belichick

  1. #241
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    [QUOTE=AFCEastFan;4250613]We're up to 12 pages now, so I would have to say yes.[/QUOTE]


    I just figured people were worried about their post count :dunno:

  2. #242
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    We will have to wait to render a final decision as to how great a HC BB is until after he coaches a few years without Brady. Before Brady he was a defensive genius who had never won anything as HC. With Brady, he morphed from a defensive genius into a Tony Dungy Redux. He converted to a 4-3, got some pass rushers, marches Brady out there to build up a lead to force the other team into pass mode, then plays a lot of cover 2. Right now it's Brady's team. They sink or swim with him and him alone. BB must win wothout Brady to be on the same level as a guy like Joe Gibbs, who won regardless of who was at QB.

  3. #243
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    [QUOTE=CleatMarks;4250602]Does anyone really give a **** about this thread? [/quote]

    Clearly.

    [QUOTE=CleatMarks;4250602] I mean really, BB and Brady are going to the HOF. There's no point trying to undercut them. Their own peers are going to send them, not a bunch of yahoo fans.

    In your professional lives, who is in a better position to evaluate your talent? Is it your peers or some lay person calling up and complaining that he could do better.[/quote]

    NFL Players & Coaches don't decide who goes into the Hall of Fame does.

    Peter King does.

    et al.







    Especially Al.

  4. #244
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    [QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4250624]We will have to wait to render a final decision as to how great a HC BB is until after he coaches a few years without Brady. Before Brady he was a defensive genius who had never won anything as HC. With Brady, he morphed from a defensive genius into a Tony Dungy Redux. He converted to a 4-3, got some pass rushers, marches Brady out there to build up a lead to force the other team into pass mode, then plays a lot of cover 2. Right now it's Brady's team. They sink or swim with him and him alone. BB must win wothout Brady to be on the same level as a guy like Joe Gibbs, who won regardless of who was at QB.[/QUOTE]

    That argument doesn't hold water. What did Bill Walsh ever do without Montana or Young? What did Noll do without Bradshaw?

    Having a great quarterback certainly helps, but you still have to build a team around them, and put them into position to succeed. A lot of great talent has failed, because they were not managed properly, or put in a position to succeed. Belichick has has the Pats at the top of the division, or tied for the top of the division, for eleven straight seasons. That doesn't happen by accident.

    The one season that Brady didn't play, Belichick still won 11 games with a guy who hadn't played since high school.

  5. #245
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    [QUOTE=BluVayner;4250670]That argument doesn't hold water. What did Bill Walsh ever do without Montana or Young? What did Noll do without Bradshaw?

    Having a great quarterback certainly helps, but you still have to build a team around them, and put them into position to succeed. A lot of great talent has failed, because they were not managed properly, or put in a position to succeed. Belichick has has the Pats at the top of the division, or tied for the top of the division, for eleven straight seasons. That doesn't happen by accident.

    The one season that Brady didn't play, Belichick still won 11 games with a guy who hadn't played since high school.[/QUOTE]

    08 was weird when Chaddys Fins make the playoffs and the Pats don't with the same record..:eek:

  6. #246
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    [QUOTE=BluVayner;4250670]That argument doesn't hold water. What did Bill Walsh ever do without Montana or Young? What did Noll do without Bradshaw?

    Having a great quarterback certainly helps, but you still have to build a team around them, and put them into position to succeed. A lot of great talent has failed, because they were not managed properly, or put in a position to succeed. Belichick has has the Pats at the top of the division, or tied for the top of the division, for eleven straight seasons. That doesn't happen by accident.

    The one season that Brady didn't play, Belichick still won 11 games with a guy who hadn't played since high school.[/QUOTE]

    You answered your own question with Bill Walsh. He won with 2 QB's.

    No one really considers Chuck Knoll a Coaching Genius. He was a great talent evaluator in the pre free agency age. He won with a team full of HOF'rs. BB is already ahead of knoll when it comes to coaching.

    BTW, BB did not make the playoff's with Cassel, meaning a lot of teams in the AFC did well that season.

    And please re-read my post. I did not say BB was not a great coach. I said we will not know "how great" he is until he no longer has Brady. What doesn't hold water about that?

  7. #247
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    [QUOTE=jetssjumets;4250448]Correct. My idea of a nice place to live (or retire) is not the charm of an old southern city -- pre 1900. Sorry but I enjoy the modern amenities life has to offer. Besides, Marina Del Rey, Newport Beach (Ca.) or the many nice venues of south Florida, offers a better quality of life than Charleston, SC....and that includes many factors. The AAA bond rating for the local municipality does not mean much. If the state's bond rating is not good....so what? But my primary concern is quality of life. The aforementioned cities have far more to offer than Charleston, SC. Of course, I will concede that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" so what works for me may not for you. However, on a whole, I think most people would agree with me. .[/QUOTE]

    Christ, you must be fun to party with.

  8. #248
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    [QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4250624]We will have to wait to render a final decision as to how great a HC BB is until after he coaches a few years without Brady. Before Brady he was a defensive genius who had never won anything as HC. With Brady, he morphed from a defensive genius into a Tony Dungy Redux. He converted to a 4-3, got some pass rushers, marches Brady out there to build up a lead to force the other team into pass mode, then plays a lot of cover 2. Right now it's Brady's team. They sink or swim with him and him alone. BB must win wothout Brady to be on the same level as a guy like Joe Gibbs, who won regardless of who was at QB.[/QUOTE]

    +1

    Agreed. Also, as much as I dislike how he left the Jets, Bill Parcells can be added along with Joe Gibbs. He has proven, with several franchises, that he is a HOF coach. Belicheat's 5-11, 6-10 teams without Brady (at Clev and NE) speaks volumes. As for his 2008 year, even a blind squirrel gets an acorn or two. For Belicheat, that year, the AFCE was a benefactor by playing the horrible AFCW.

  9. #249
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    [QUOTE=FF2;4250751]Christ, you must be fun to party with.[/QUOTE]

    No troll. I don't have time to party with very little spare time. I am working from home today preparing for next week after leaving the office last night after 9pm on a holiday. Besides, I am not 20 years old; those days are long gone.

    Now. Why are you such a troll and why don't you go to NE's fans board -- a nice way of asking, why are you here? Didn't you get the memo, this is JetsInsider -- what do we all have in common: we are Jets fans! Get it? ;)

  10. #250
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    [QUOTE=jetssjumets;4250800]No troll. I don't have time to party with very little spare time. I am working from home today preparing for next week after leaving the office last night after 9pm on a holiday. Besides, I am not 20 years old; those days are long gone.

    Now. Why are you such a troll and why don't you go to NE's fans board -- a nice way of asking, why are you here? Didn't you get the memo, this is JetsInsider -- what do we all have in common: we are Jets fans! Get it? ;)[/QUOTE]

    I was invited here by the guys who runs the place.

    And yeah, we get it, you're a very busy important guy. :rolleyes:

  11. #251
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    [QUOTE=jetssjumets;425079]Belicheat's 5-11, 6-10 teams without Brady (at Clev and NE) speaks volumes. As for his 2008 year, even a blind squirrel gets an acorn or two. For Belicheat, that year, the AFCE was a benefactor by playing the horrible AFCW.[/QUOTE]

    +1. We should find as many excuses as we can for Beliscambag's 11-5 seasons without Brady and ignore all the obvious excuses for his 5-11 ones.

  12. #252
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    [QUOTE=jetssjumets;4250792]+1

    Agreed. Also, as much as I dislike how he left the Jets, Bill Parcells can be added along with Joe Gibbs. He has proven, with several franchises, that he is a HOF coach. Belicheat's 5-11, 6-10 teams without Brady (at Clev and NE) speaks volumes. As for his 2008 year, even a blind squirrel gets an acorn or two. For Belicheat, that year, the AFCE was a benefactor by playing the horrible AFCW.[/QUOTE]

    Your disdain for BB is on record (repeatedly). Now, dare I venture back to the topic- do you think Rex is a better coach? I thing Rex is a very good coach but has not reached the upper echelon of where BB is yet. I'll readily concede that Brady is a big part of the team's success but you make it sound as if a chimp could be the NE HC. To me BB is not the greatest at identifying raw talent but he is known for getting ham and egger type players to perform well in his system.

    Also there aren't too many coaches who repeatedly won anything with a "mediocre" QB...there is a reason why the Trent Dilfers are the exception. BB may not be the greatest but he is up there among the best. If you're going to discredit him because of Brady you have to do likewise to most other successful coaches who've had elite QBs. You can't pass off the personal bias/ cherry picking as objective commentary.

  13. #253
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    [QUOTE=PatriotReign;4250903]Your disdain for BB is on record (repeatedly). Now, dare I venture back to the topic- do you think Rex is a better coach? I thing Rex is a very good coach but has not reached the upper echelon of where BB is yet. I'll readily concede that Brady is a big part of the team's success but you make it sound as if a chimp could be the NE HC. To me BB is not the greatest at identifying raw talent but he is known for getting ham and egger type players to perform well in his system.

    Also there aren't too many coaches who repeatedly won anything with a "mediocre" QB...there is a reason why the Trent Dilfers are the exception. BB may not be the greatest but he is up there among the best. If you're going to discredit him because of Brady you have to do likewise to most other successful coaches who've had elite QBs. You can't pass off the personal bias/ cherry picking as objective commentary.[/QUOTE]

    I can't answer that right now because one coach is only in his 3rd season while the other has been a HC for 16/17 years. Based on Rex's limited HC resume, my answer would be Yes, Rex is a better coach. But so many factors play into your question it really is just my opinion at this point becasue there just isn't enough data to accurately guage the question from Rex's standpoint.

    Brady makes everyone better. Belicheat's signature is on Defense and the Pats are horrible on D and have been for quite a while.

    In regards to other coaches, here is the difference. Parcells coaching tree has enjoyed success and won championships (not only Belicheat). Same with Bill Walsh. Look when Belicheat's assistants become HCs. They are complete failures. While I am certainly no fan of Tammy, he will go down as one of the all time greatest Qbs (certainly top 5, possibly 3). That disguises plenty of flaws on Belicheat's part. We are beginning to see it with his talent evaluation. My guess, as soon as Tammy retires you will see it in his coaching too. His track record before Brady speaks volumes.

    As for my dislike of Belicheat. I think he is a scumbag! He took the old man's money and once he passed did not honor his contract. Furthermore, look how he treated his wife. So when I refer to him as Belicheat, it is much more than just spygate and football. I believe how you treat people says more about you as a person than anything else. If much has been given to you much is expected. IMO he is just not a nice human being and for damn sure doesn't deserve my respect nor will he ever get it. F-him!! Spygate was just an affirmation of how Belicheat conducts himself as a human being and how he treats people. Think I am wrong.....ask some of his former players who he kicked to the curb but still remain valuable contributors on other teams.

  14. #254
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    [QUOTE=jetssjumets;4251094].....ask some of his former players who he kicked to the curb but still remain valuable contributors on other teams.[/QUOTE]

    Name them. Name all the players who "were kicked to the curb" who "remain valuable contributors on other teams" who have said anything bad about BB after leaving the Pats.

  15. #255
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    [QUOTE=FF2;4251143]Name them. Name all the players who "were kicked to the curb" who "remain valuable contributors on other teams" who have said anything bad about BB after leaving the Pats.[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you. Even Randy Moss seems to like BB. The only player I can think of is Ted Johnson.

  16. #256
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    [QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4251170]I agree with you. Even Randy Moss seems to like BB. The only player I can think of is Ted Johnson.[/QUOTE]

    And he has slowly backed off his earlier comments over time.

    A lot of ex-Pats love Bill because he made them rich, David Patten, Assante Samuel, David Givens, even Lawer Malloy.

    Guys like Branch and Banta Cain even came back. Moss would love to come back.

  17. #257
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    [QUOTE=FF2;4251143]Name them. Name all the players who "were kicked to the curb" who "remain valuable contributors on other teams" who have said anything bad about BB after leaving the Pats.[/QUOTE]

    Current players: Seymour. Yup, he sure can't help that stellar NE championship D. :rolleyes:

    Former players from past years off the top of my head: Milloy, Law.

  18. #258
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    Moss would love to come back....wow what a surprise. He would go to the Colts if they called. In other words, he's done but can't accept that fact so he's willing to listen to anyone who comes calling. If NE did, why wouldn't he go back. :rolleyes:

  19. #259
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    jetssjumets-

    I guess this is like the abortion debate- niether side will ever convince the other. You say BB hasn't done anything since spygate yet the post spygate season had them go 18-1 and a helmet catch from a perfect season. The season was ultimately a failure because they did not win the SB but to dismiss what they accomplished during the post spygate season is homer talk. BTW if you insist he still had the tapes you have to logically infer that every team they faced that season was too dumb/lazy to change their defensive hand signals which would render the old one's useless.

    As mentioned the Brady-less season had the Pats go 11-5 with a QB who hadn't started since HS and now is mediocre at best with the chiefs. You dismiss this with the blind squirrel argument or that the AFC was weak that year. Truth is that there is nothing BB can do as you would reply with a "yeah but" to every accomplishment but OTOH would offer no mitigating factors to his defense for any poor seasons.

  20. #260
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    [QUOTE=PatriotReign;4251389]jetssjumets-

    I guess this is like the abortion debate- niether side will ever convince the other. You say BB hasn't done anything since spygate yet the post spygate season had them go 18-1 and a helmet catch from a perfect season. [/QUOTE]

    I always hear this one.

    It's a cop out for when the change was actually put into affect... In 2008...

    The full 'spying' that was done wasn't negated until the introduction of wireless signals to the defense...

    You know it, I know it and the league knew it...

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