Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 67

Thread: Solar gets cheap fast

  1. #21
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    13,541
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=Trades;4248220]Really? At almost any price? I will be by your house to install solar panels and Geothermal heat for $2,000,000 this afternoon. Is 2:00 good for you?

    I think the technology needs to show it will pay for itself over time. Negating the electric bill is all well and good as long as you show you are at least breaking even within a few years and the system has a life span of at least double the break even point.

    For example, Lets say it costs $6000 to install solar on your property and it completely meets your needs (not realistic for a modern family in the North-east) for the next 10 years. Your weekly electric bill before solar is about $100 month. You would hit a break even point, assuming you didn't finance the $6000, in 5 years so you would need an additional 5 years of cost/maintenance free use to really make it worth your while. This of course assumes [B]static electricity prices [/B]and usage.

    I have the same problem justifying a more fuel efficient car. I drive a 10 year old Dodge Dakota with 110k miles on it. It is in great shape and I average about <$1000/year maintenance on it. I only get 14.5mpg average on it but I haven't found a formula that makes buying a new more efficient car worth it. Even at $4/gal for gas.[/QUOTE]

    Now if I could only package it when my socks stick together coming out of the dryer, I could charge folks for it...

  2. #22
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,172
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=Piper;4248224]Sorry I didn't articulate it enough for you. Of course it has to pay for itself over time.
    No reason to be a dink about it. Thanks for the finance 101 lesson.[/QUOTE]

    Sorry I lead with sarcasm but I just though you were oversimplifying.

  3. #23
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,172
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4248249]Now if I could only package it when my socks stick together coming out of the dryer, I could charge folks for it...[/QUOTE]

    LOL

  4. #24
    Hall Of Fame
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    L.I. NY (where the Jets used to be from)
    Posts
    13,337
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=Trades;4248251]Sorry I lead with sarcasm but I just though you were oversimplifying.[/QUOTE]

    Fair enough.

    The people on this forum that could benefit from your explanation will just lump you into the anti-environment people anyway because you want solar energy to make sense.

    As with you, mine is a more practical analysis which just irritates the tree-huggers.

  5. #25
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,172
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=Piper;4248423]Fair enough.

    The people on this forum that could benefit from your explanation will just lump you into the anti-environment people anyway because you want solar energy to make sense.

    As with you, mine is a more practical analysis which just irritates the tree-huggers.[/QUOTE]

    I found this interesting ad on reason.com. Claims solar at potentially $0 out of pocket in exchange for paying them a monthly solar lease fee.

    [QUOTE]
    With leasing, homeowners can go solar without having to pay the high upfront cost of panels, equipment, and installation. Instead of paying for the system, you pay a monthly amount to lease solar panels and use the electricity they generate. Itís easy, affordable, and the way most homeowners are choosing to go solar these days.
    [B][B]How leasing works[/B][/B]

    SunRun offers solar panel leasing to homeowners in several states. Hereís how it works:
    [B]1. [/B]SunRun purchases your home solar system and installs it on your roof.
    [B]2. [/B]You pay little to nothing upfront, and then a low, fixed amount every month.
    [B]3. [/B]SunRun takes complete care of the equipment for 20 years
    [/QUOTE]

    [URL]http://www.sunrunhome.com/landing-pages/landing-page-three-reasons?_kk=&_kt=6826217d-969d-4908-874d-05b8839fd10a&gclid=CP2F8YalzawCFaEhtAodVGiypQ[/URL]

  6. #26
    Hall Of Fame
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    L.I. NY (where the Jets used to be from)
    Posts
    13,337
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=Trades;4248451]I found this interesting ad on reason.com. Claims solar at potentially $0 out of pocket in exchange for paying them a monthly solar lease fee.



    [URL]http://www.sunrunhome.com/landing-pages/landing-page-three-reasons?_kk=&_kt=6826217d-969d-4908-874d-05b8839fd10a&gclid=CP2F8YalzawCFaEhtAodVGiypQ[/URL][/QUOTE]

    Interesting. And certainly a view into how the Gov't would tax renewable energy.

  7. #27
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    greenwich village, NYC
    Posts
    8,116
    Post Thanks / Like
    What I'm looking for is affordable portable solar... i.e, enough to run a single space heater or a couple of appliances. Once there is the option of tacking a decorative solar cell outside the window (an awning or something) and cabling to an outlet, there will be a boom in solar use. Most people can't afford the up-front costs, but would jump at small scale solar solutions that pull at least some of their bigger energy guzzlers off the grid. Heat, hot water, air conditioning...

  8. #28
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,554
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=Trades;4248451]I found this interesting ad on reason.com. Claims solar at potentially $0 out of pocket in exchange for paying them a monthly solar lease fee.



    [URL]http://www.sunrunhome.com/landing-pages/landing-page-three-reasons?_kk=&_kt=6826217d-969d-4908-874d-05b8839fd10a&gclid=CP2F8YalzawCFaEhtAodVGiypQ[/URL][/QUOTE]

    That program is legit and they are pushing it nationwide. I looked into it for my own house. They basically say they will fix your electricity cost at something like 10% below what you are currently paying per KWH. For me thats around 15 bucks a month. Not bad but in order for the program to work two things need to be in place. First they use the government incentives to reduce their cost by over 50% and charge it to Uncle Sam and the taxpayers. Then they keep the carbon credits and sell them on the world market. As a homeowner you need to be sure your roof is in ofder and are responsible for roof repairs. Then they fill your roof with these panels that as a homeowner you never get to own. For myself the $15 per month savings was not worth the hassle.

  9. #29
    Practice Squad
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Rockland County
    Posts
    399
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4247216]I'm not angry.

    Exposing that you support an idea you don't actually use yourself is simply the starting point for discussion on that issue.

    If the environment was what you folks say (i.e. in massive danger) and solar was what you folsk say it is (a great new clean tech thats cheap and should be supprted), then by basic logical extention, you'd be using it exclusively.

    The fact that our biggest proponents of Global Climate Change Disater Pending Theory do not, themselves, do almost anything to protect the environemnt in their own lives speaks volumes, on a myriad of points.[/QUOTE]

    I figuratively supported the Jets for years before I literally supported them by becoming a season ticket holder. Many of us root for solar in the same way even though we haven't gone all in on it yet. We hope it succeeds and can easily imagine installing it in the future. But for now, going to the various website calculators show that it isn't yet a good deal (or at least the last time I looked a year or two ago).

    Keep in mind that most of us here, being Jets fans, are located near NY. It is not as conducive to solar power here as the southwest part of the country. Our higher latitudes and relatively greater cloud cover effects the payback period. While some might say that California is an early adopter of Solar because of their liberal politics, I think it just because more people are able to run the numbers there and dive in. Yes, I root for that. I root for them spending the money cause I think, in the long run, that will help bring the cost down to the point where more of us can then dive in as well.

    I don't tie solar energy proponents to global warming proponents as much as you do. Here, I simply typed into google "Solar Power Survey" and "Global Warming Survey" just to see what I would get. [URL="http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2011/11/survey-says-9-in-10-americans-want-more-solar-energy"]Apparently 90% of Americans are like me and 'support' solar[/URL]. That's higher than I thought. Then the second [URL="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/27/another-survey-shows-public-opinion-on-global-warming-is-in-decline/"]search found that about 50% of Americans are concerned about global warming[/URL] and that number has been dropping. Simple math would show that a significant number, almost half, of the people that like the idea of solar are not worried about global warming.

  10. #30
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,172
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=majormajor42;4249220]I figuratively supported the Jets for years before I literally supported them by becoming a season ticket holder. Many of us root for solar in the same way even though we haven't gone all in on it yet. We hope it succeeds and can easily imagine installing it in the future. But for now, going to the various website calculators show that it isn't yet a good deal (or at least the last time I looked a year or two ago).

    Keep in mind that most of us here, being Jets fans, are located near NY. It is not as conducive to solar power here as the southwest part of the country. Our higher latitudes and relatively greater cloud cover effects the payback period. While some might say that California is an early adopter of Solar because of their liberal politics, I think it just because more people are able to run the numbers there and dive in. Yes, I root for that. I root for them spending the money cause I think, in the long run, that will help bring the cost down to the point where more of us can then dive in as well.

    I don't tie solar energy proponents to global warming proponents as much as you do. Here, I simply typed into google "Solar Power Survey" and "Global Warming Survey" just to see what I would get. [URL="http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2011/11/survey-says-9-in-10-americans-want-more-solar-energy"]Apparently 90% of Americans are like me and 'support' solar[/URL]. That's higher than I thought. Then the second [URL="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/27/another-survey-shows-public-opinion-on-global-warming-is-in-decline/"]search found that about 50% of Americans are concerned about global warming[/URL] and that number has been dropping. Simple math would show that a significant number, almost half, of the people that like the idea of solar are not worried about global warming.[/QUOTE]

    What does it mean to support solar? Do you wear its jersey and cheer when the sun comes out?

  11. #31
    Practice Squad
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Rockland County
    Posts
    399
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=Trades;4249292]What does it mean to support solar? Do you wear its jersey and cheer when the sun comes out?[/QUOTE]

    I guess it means I talk about it here in a positive way and there are those that talk about it in a negative way too (and they wear old Oilers jerseys?)

  12. #32
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,179
    Post Thanks / Like
    The US is accussing China of dumping panels here below cost. Punitive tariffs will raise the price of panels not lower them.

  13. #33
    All League
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,844
    Post Thanks / Like
    With billions in subsidizes they mau work out. But the US cannot afford to dump billions down and ever deepening hole. If you want it you make cuts somewhere else like entitlements, defense and other pet projects.

  14. #34
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    LI
    Posts
    20,134
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4247319]I didn't ask if you owned a Solar Power Plant.

    I asked if you choose, in your own choice of power providers, in the open marketplace, to do business with a Solar Power provider or not.

    Your post would be relevant.....only if your view was that power generation should be a Government Service, provided to all, and paid for via taxation.

    You could support solar power via your actions today. You could choose solar.

    You don't.[/QUOTE]

    In all fairness to Buster, he's like those chickenhawk politicians who send kids off to war to die: you don't have to do it yourself, just tell others to do it. :yes:

  15. #35
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    37,611
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=majormajor42;4249220]I figuratively supported the Jets for years before I literally supported them by becoming a season ticket holder.[/quote]

    Can you please expalin what "figurative support" for a Football Team is, exactly? In Sports, "support" is not defines as "invest or spend", you know that right?

    [QUOTE]Many of us root for solar in the same way even though we haven't gone all in on it yet.

    I guess it means I talk about it here in a positive way [/QUOTE]

    Interesting. So to stick with your Jets Fan comparison, it would be like telling people the Jets are a team you support and like, but actully never watching, following or knowing anything about them at all, nor buying tickets, nor buying Jets swag.

    You'd be a Jets Fan.....who has and does nothing in relation to the Jets.

    Sounds like most Solar Energy "Fans" I know, tbqh.

    [QUOTE]We hope it succeeds[/QUOTE]

    Yet do nothing to help it suceed, which unlike football, a "Solar energy fan" could easily do.

    [QUOTE]and can easily imagine installing it in the future. But for now, going to the various website calculators show that it isn't yet a good deal (or at least the last time I looked a year or two ago).[/QUOTE]

    Rofl. Shows where the priorities are, and what you're REALLY a fan of.

    That would be dollars and oil, not solar.

    You're watching the Texas Oilers against your team, the New York Solars, and you're wearing an Oilers Hat and rooting on their snazzy QB "Bucks McDollars", but telling folks your REALLY a New York Solars Fan?

    [QUOTE]It is not as conducive to solar power here as the southwest part of the country.[/QUOTE]

    And like alot of Jets Fans, you've got the excuse train on the tracks, engine running, ready to go.

    It's not Solar Shotty! It' can't be! Solart Shotty is great! It's um, er, eh, uh, the blocking TE, Oily McSlipperydollars, he's just so cheap we can't replace him, but he really really really susks and is ruining Solar Shotty's entire brilliant gameplan!!!!!

    [QUOTE]I root for that. I root for them spending the money[/QUOTE]

    Economic Liberalism in a nutshell folks. I root for "them" to spend "thier" money, so I can feel good about X.

    Ask about their OWN money, and the Excuse Train starts rolling.

    [quote]Simple math would show that a significant number, almost half, of the people that like the idea of solar are not worried about global warming.[/QUOTE]

    Simple Math, eh? Care to (as the old teachers used to say) "show your work", cause I think you're making a leap, a logical fallacy, that cannot actuly be supported by the numbers available.
    Last edited by Warfish; 11-25-2011 at 10:50 AM.

  16. #36
    All League
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East of the Jordan, West of the Rock of Gibraltar
    Posts
    4,757
    Post Thanks / Like
    Anyway...The point is lots of Solar energy plants and panels are being installed in the US and world wide.

    That is a fact.

    and IMHO it is a very good thing for the world energy market.

  17. #37
    Practice Squad
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Rockland County
    Posts
    399
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4249978]1. Can you please expalin what "figurative support" for a Football Team is, exactly? In Sports, "support" is not defines as "invest or spend", you know that right?

    2. Interesting. So to stick with your Jets Fan comparison, it would be like telling people the Jets are a team you support and like, but actully never watching, following or knowing anything about them at all, nor buying tickets, nor buying Jets swag.

    3. You'd be a Jets Fan.....who has and does nothing in relation to the Jets.

    4. Sounds like most Solar Energy "Fans" I know, tbqh.

    5. Yet do nothing to help it suceed, which unlike football, a "Solar energy fan" could easily do.

    6. Rofl. Shows where the priorities are, and what you're REALLY a fan of.

    7. That would be dollars and oil, not solar.

    8. You're watching the Texas Oilers against your team, the New York Solars, and you're wearing an Oilers Hat and rooting on their snazzy QB "Bucks McDollars", but telling folks your REALLY a New York Solars Fan?

    9. And like alot of Jets Fans, you've got the excuse train on the tracks, engine running, ready to go.

    10. It's not Solar Shotty! It' can't be! Solart Shotty is great! It's um, er, eh, uh, the blocking TE, Oily McSlipperydollars, he's just so cheap we can't replace him, but he really really really susks and is ruining Solar Shotty's entire brilliant gameplan!!!!!

    11. Economic Liberalism in a nutshell folks. I root for "them" to spend "thier" money, so I can feel good about X.

    12. Ask about their OWN money, and the Excuse Train starts rolling.

    13. Simple Math, eh? Care to (as the old teachers used to say) "show your work", cause I think you're making a leap, a logical fallacy, that cannot actuly be supported by the numbers available.[/QUOTE]

    1. I used the word support cause that was the word you used. Discussions of semantics and metaphors doesn't change the numbers in the OP or that Solar is getting cheaper and more accessible to people that want it.

    2. you are taking it too far, but you know that. you are 1 for 5 in this case.

    3. no

    4. I don't know who you know

    5. I might change your mind and get you to become an owner, especially if you live in a location where the current economics make sense. Do you live in a sunny area at a lower latitude? And in the future the economics may make further sense even for those up here.

    6. Why would I throw money on the roof just to make some sort of point about something (but maybe not saving money)? then I could understand your frustration.

    7. dollars yes. I like money. Oil has little to do with power on the grid.

    8. You are taking this too far, but you know that. Let's change "Texas Oilers" to the "State/City Gas/Coal". I like having my lights on, so yes. I anticipate being a NY Solar fan in the future. You are going to start seeing more NY Solar fans. I was once more of a baseball fan than football fan. People do change.

    9. I'm not in a position to put down other Jets fans. I am fairly optimistic.

    10. yeah, a little off topic. I don't make excuses for why solar isn't cheaper yet or why more people don't have it yet. that doesn't upset me. It might in 10-20 years. you'll still be here with 290,000 posts and then can really rub my nose in it when the Oilers are still winning Super Bowls.

    11. but they are also saving money too because Solar pays back quicker down there. and I never said "thier"

    12. I don't think we, in NY, are in a position to save money yet with solar. but at 15 cents a KW here, it may not be long. Oh, and I also need to buy a house instead of living in a condo. then I can install panels on my roof. Of course, true greenies might say that I am living more efficiently by living in a multi family dwelling than a stand alone house. NYC, with it's subways and high density housing is actually very efficient per capita. Solar may just improve things.

    13. just rebut what I said then. If 50% of Americans believe in x, and 90% "support" y, than many of those that support y do not believe in x. you can make it more complex than it has to be if you want. Would you rather group the whole solar fan club into a certain side of the global warming debate? why? Why must they choose sides?

  18. #38
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Post Thanks / Like
    the rate of improvement on solar panels efficiency is similar to that of moores law improvement on processors. it's an exponential increase in efficiency.

    that also means 10 years from now the technology should be far better than even today's improved technology.

    you will be able to spray paint solar cells on your roof and just attach a wire to the paint. that technology exists it's just not mass marketed... yet

  19. #39
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,172
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4251032]the rate of improvement on solar panels efficiency is similar to that of moores law improvement on processors. it's an exponential increase in efficiency.

    that also means 10 years from now the technology should be far better than even today's improved technology.

    you will be able to spray paint solar cells on your roof and just attach a wire to the paint. that technology exists it's just not mass marketed... yet[/QUOTE]

    Sounds like a good reason to invest in research rather than trying to force a product that isn't reasy onto the market.

  20. #40
    All League
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,844
    Post Thanks / Like
    How many loans will Obama have to make to have this work out?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us