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Thread: Social Security Rate of Return v. Market - Privatization Seems Better for Everyone

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4255227]Sorry but I'm not willing to accept the idea that the employer funded portion of my SS contribution goes to anyone but me. [/quote]

    The employer funded part of your SS contribution goes to others [B]today[/B]. You think that money is tracked and you are getting any of it?


    [QUOTE]
    The uncapped contributions is a massive tax hike that will hurt the economy and won't solve anything.[/QUOTE]

    Not that massive. 6.4% on incomes above 90K. If you make 200K, it's essentially an extra $7,000 - but on the other hand, you see the benefit of it in your personal retirement account, and get the benefit of the enhanced returns. So it's more deferred compensation than a tax.

    [QUOTE]
    We are talking about SS when Medicare is in a vastly worse shape. If we raise taxes for SS we will need to double down to fix medicare. That type of sloution is too painful to handle.
    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed.


    [QUOTE]The answer to both programs is raising the ages to reflect longer life expectancy and adding a means test.
    [/QUOTE]

    It's not enough.

    [quote]Its an interesting side note that Obama is pushing a payroll tax cut at a time when reasonable people understand how much trouble those programs are in.[/QUOTE]

    Heh - it's interesting that people who argue that tax cuts are stimulative would complain about that.

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4255669]The employer funded part of your SS contribution goes to others [B]today[/B]. You think that money is tracked and you are getting any of it?
    Not that massive. 6.4% on incomes above 90K. If you make 200K, it's essentially an extra $7,000 - but on the other hand, you see the benefit of it in your personal retirement account, and get the benefit of the enhanced returns. So it's more deferred compensation than a tax.[/QUOTE]

    Today the max for SS is around 110K. That tax hike would be an additional 6.3% on W2 income over 110K plus an additional 6.3% employer contribution. For small business owners like myself that is a 13% tax hike. Since my current effective tax rate is around 22% for federal the additional 13% is massive. Since most folks work for small business owners the effects would be severe on the economy and that would only help solve the SS problem. Where does the Medicare, Medicaid, Military, Govt Pension, Farm Subsidy, Food Stamp, Green Jobs, Stem Cell Research, $16 Defense Dept Muffin money come from? Also how does your new payroll tax jive with the new Obamacare payroll tax? Its not realistic.




    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4255669]Heh - it's interesting that people who argue that tax cuts are stimulative would complain about that.[/QUOTE]

    I think you are smarter than this. To exchange a one time stimulus of a payroll tax holiday for a permanent tax hike would absurd. In a negotiation there are two sides. On one hand we have Republicans that want to shrink government, keep taxes low and balance the budget and reform entitlements. On the other hand we have Democrats that want to expand government, increase taxes, and expand entitlements. I can see the Republicans caving on revenue increases in exchange for entitlement reform and spending cuts. I can't see them caving on taxes to get a one time payroll tax reduction that bounces back up in a year. That would be beyond stupid. Remember when the Mets had Jim Duquette as the GM and he traded #1 prospect Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano?? It would be THAT stupid.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4255106]for the record everyone is panicing about social security, it's actually a well run and solvent program for the most part. all this talk about it being broke is way overblown. they extend the retirement age a couple years, the thing can run for another 50+ years, no problem. why fix SS when it isn't broken?[/QUOTE]

    They're already talking about pushing the retirement age to 70 which would do this. It makes sense considering average life expectancies are increasing due to medical technology.

    As far as privitization goes George W. Bust tried it already and it failed on its face completely. The privitized system was actually more expensive than the status quo with no guarantee of a pay out. Which is why even alot of republicans rejected the plan it was garbage.

  4. #24
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    I like the ideas about raising the age. There are lots of good ideas out there but what does the AARP like? They are not just a lobby, they are a voting block. Any changes to SS may need their input. Any ideas presented should be weighed by what the AARP and their membership will think about it.

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=majormajor42;4255931]I like the ideas about raising the age. There are lots of good ideas out there but what does the AARP like? They are not just a lobby, they are a voting block. Any changes to SS may need their input. Any ideas presented should be weighed by what the AARP and their membership will think about it.[/QUOTE]

    Or we could all just vote on it after 8 PM.

  6. #26
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    I am not for eliminating SS or privatizing it. Why? It can be stable.
    Changes: 1. retirement age moved to 70 - people are living longer. 2. Medicare - same eligibility age as full SS. 3. Disability - a total sham. This needs to be thoroughly improved. 4. Medicaid - reduce it. 5. Medicare fraud - a big problem. Time for some serious jail time and confiscation of property from offenders/families.

    My findings: My personal accounts provide a better return than my SS. My retirement accounts (when I start taking distrtibutions) will be far greater than SS. My regular investment accounts provide many times the yearly income of SS. BUT, these are the result of many years of investment. Not one penny of invested capital was ever removed from any account.

    Most people, however, do not have the time (or quite frankly the background) to formulate an investment strategy and execute it with discipline in the long term. SS is a good adjunct to your own personal program. But for a lot of people it is a lifeline for those who are just not responsible.

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4256590]I am not for eliminating SS or privatizing it. Why? It can be stable.
    Changes: 1. retirement age moved to 70 - people are living longer. 2. Medicare - same eligibility age as full SS. 3. Disability - a total sham. This needs to be thoroughly improved. 4. Medicaid - reduce it. 5. Medicare fraud - a big problem. Time for some serious jail time and confiscation of property from offenders/families.

    My findings: My personal accounts provide a better return than my SS. My retirement accounts (when I start taking distrtibutions) will be far greater than SS. My regular investment accounts provide many times the yearly income of SS. BUT, these are the result of many years of investment. Not one penny of invested capital was ever removed from any account.

    Most people, however, do not have the time (or quite frankly the background) to formulate an investment strategy and execute it with discipline in the long term. SS is a good adjunct to your own personal program. But for a lot of people it is a lifeline for those who are just not responsible.[/QUOTE]

    You have my vote :applause:

  8. #28
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    In my opinion, the best system is a combination of a public baseline safety net with a private supplement. This strategy should be implemented with Social Security and Healthcare.

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=parafly;4256948]In my opinion, the best system is a combination of a public baseline safety net with a private supplement. This strategy should be implemented with Social Security and Healthcare.[/QUOTE]

    Reduce social security $1 for every $3 of public employee pension in excess of $50,000 annually.

    We have retired civil servants with pensions of $50,000 a year also collecting social security.

    There should be some limit to how much from the public bucket one could drink while others die thirsty.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=majormajor42;4255931]I like the ideas about raising the age. There are lots of good ideas out there but what does the AARP like? They are not just a lobby, they are a voting block. Any changes to SS may need their input. Any ideas presented should be weighed by what the AARP and their membership will think about it.[/QUOTE]

    I'm sure the AARP is against raising the age and they are a powerful voting bloc (old people vote, young people don't). That said raising the retirement age is an inevitablity. It makes too much sense.

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=TerminatorJet;4257263]I'm sure the AARP is against raising the age and they are a powerful voting bloc (old people vote, young people don't). That said raising the retirement age is an inevitablity. It makes too much sense.[/QUOTE]

    That is why you grandfather in the retired and close to retired and let them decide to up the age for people that are in their 40s and 50s now and since the kids are spending more time in the park rather than voting or working we can vote to give them SS at 80 and they won't even notice for another 5 - 10 years.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4256952]Reduce social security $1 for every $3 of public employee pension in excess of $50,000 annually.

    We have retired civil servants with pensions of $50,000 a year also collecting social security.

    There should be some limit to how much from the public bucket one could drink while others die thirsty.[/QUOTE]


    Well now, you've been thinking about this. This is a very good concept - sort of like people collecting SS before they reach full retirement age and still working. I fully endorse your reco.
    BTW, I am also for eliminating early retirement at 62. Retire at you full age - currently 66, 67 in the near future. Want earlier, then work harder. I keep saying that - OWS hear that anyone?

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4252863]I have no faith in any form, that when I turn 65, that I will get anything from Social Security.

    As such, any system where I keep my own money, is a system I'd support.[/QUOTE]

    I would make a deal with the government right now. I'd take all of my contributions at nominal value, with 0 interest, and let the government off the hook for any and all SS payments to me in the future. I'll forgo the last two decades of interest or gains....just give my contributions back and voila...you're off the hook, Uncle Sam.

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