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Thread: Not your typical Sanchez thread...

  1. #1
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    Not your typical Sanchez thread...

    To start with I'm a defender of Sanchez, as I've said in recent weeks I feel his problems have had more to do with lousy, pass routes, blocking, playcalling, and a lack of protection from the officials making him free game for pass rushers. Yesterday two of these problems were resolved imho, the line played very well, and the refs actually threw a flag for a personal foul.

    Now the point of my thread, 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives. It is no secret in under three years Sanchez excels in this department (as well as playoff wins, but that's for another discussion). The QB position in Jets history has not been a pretty picture for the most part and I will include only notable players that put in at least three years with the Jets for this comparison, only using their Jets stats.

    [LIST=1][*]Joe Namath - 16 4qc/ 16 gwd[*]Vinnie Testeverde - 14 4qc/ 13 gwd[*]Ken OBrien - 13 4qc/ 16 gwd[*]Mark Sanchez - 8 4qc/ 10 gwd[*]Chad Pennington - 5 4qc/ 9 gwd[*]Richard Todd - 5 4qc/ 9 gwd[*]Boomer Esaison - 1 4qc/ 2 gwd[/LIST]OB, Pennington, Todd, and Namath all put in nearly a decade with the Jets, Namath was a Hall of Famer. Vinnies numbers were terrific considering it was done in three seasons, but his numbers all around for his career are eye popping. FTR, Todd had 5 more 4 qc's and gwd's with New Orleans after he left in one season.

    Bottom line is Sanchez has not completed his third season yet, has been saddled (most of us would say) with Shottenheimer as a play caller and designer, and has had a revolving door at WR. He brings something to this franchize that will put him at the top of the (Jets) heap if he continues at this pace. Stats are nice, but winning games, ugly or pretty, in tight spots, with a lot on the line, is nicer.

  2. #2
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    His post season play, and 4rth qter comebacks are his saving grace as far as I'm concerned.

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    [QUOTE=RaoulDuke;4255041]His post season play, and 4rth qter comebacks are his saving grace as far as I'm concerned.[/QUOTE]

    +1

    Many of us who are skeptical that he is "the guy" still have faith based primarily on his post season play and 4th quarter comebacks.

    His "clutch" factor is the number one reason I won't give up on him.

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    [QUOTE=Austin;4255127]+1

    Many of us who are skeptical that he is "the guy" still have faith based primarily on his post season play and 4th quarter comebacks.

    [B]His "clutch" factor is the number one reason I won't give up on him.[/B][/QUOTE]

    This!!!!

    I would love to see him work with a new OC and QB coach to see if he could fix some of his problems and hone his strengths, but apparently Woody and Tanny thinks otherwise :steamin:

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=carlito1171;4255135]This!!!!

    I would love to see him work with a new OC and QB coach to see if he could fix some of his problems and hone his strengths, but apparently Woody and Tanny thinks otherwise :steamin:[/QUOTE]

    Looking at the pic in your sig it occurred to me that a pic of Schotty and Cavanaugh would be more appropriate, so I searched the internez for one without success. Then, all of a sudden, it hit me. In the 3 years these guys have worked together as OC and QB coach, I've never seen a shot of them together on the sideline during a game speaking to each other. Perhaps their is an interpersonal issue?

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    [QUOTE=Austin;4255127]+1

    Many of us who are skeptical that he is "the guy" still have faith based primarily on his post season play and 4th quarter comebacks.

    His "clutch" factor is the number one reason I won't give up on him.[/QUOTE]

    Very true. Mark has the ability to play the QB position well. I just dont think that this coaching staff is coaching to his strengths. Mark seems to excel in a more uptempo offense and seems to be very good when throwing on the move. When is he ever allowed to do this? Only when the game is on the line and they need a crucial drive do they do this, and Mark usually responds in a positive way, thus the number of 4th quarter wins and game winning drives.

    I would just like to see Shotty to allow Mark to do the things he is good at, and not try to force him into some system that he is not comfortable.

  7. #7
    1 of those QB's won a Super bowl.

    That's all that matters.

    /thread.

    1998 was the last time we had a real shot at one. In game 1 of that season, Vinny's achilles went pop and so did our balloon of hopes.

    Pennington was accurate but the coaches and team around him weren't that great, outside of Curtis Martin, one of the greatest RB's to never win a Super Bowl.

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    I wouldn't say I am a Sanchez supporter - but I wouldn't say I am a critic either. I just don't know what to make of him.

    As I posted in another thread earlier today, he was 15/20, 155 yards on the 4 TD drives yesterday and 2/15, 25 yards and a pick on the Jets other 7 possessions. When he is good, he is very good but when he is bad, he is awful.

    I agree that I would love to see what would happen if he were in a different system with a new OC and a new QB coach. Maybe we could finally figure out what we've got

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4255162]1 of those QB's won a Super bowl.

    That's all that matters.

    /thread.

    1998 was the last time we had a real shot at one. In game 1 of that season, Vinny's achilles went pop and so did our balloon of hopes.

    Pennington was accurate but the coaches and team around him weren't that great, outside of Curtis Martin, one of the greatest RB's to never win a Super Bowl.[/QUOTE]

    /thread? You did nothing to address the subject of the thread with your comment. None of those QB's won a superbowl in the first two seasons of there career. /responsetostupidcomment

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    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4255162]1 of those QB's won a Super bowl.

    That's all that matters.

    /thread.

    [B]1998 was the last time we had a real shot at one.[/B] In game 1 of that season, Vinny's achilles went pop and so did our balloon of hopes.

    Pennington was accurate but the coaches and team around him weren't that great, outside of Curtis Martin, one of the greatest RB's to never win a Super Bowl.[/QUOTE]


    ummm, we played in the past two AFC championship games...:confused:

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    If you recall Eli Manning's first 3 years, there wasn't a single Giants fan who believed in the guy. I didn't think much of the guy myself. Inaccurate, sloppy balls and too often that deer in the headlights look. But the one thing he did was comeback to win games. Look at him now. All he does is win games
    Late and has a MVP ring. And he's turned into a damn good QB. You're a fool if cant see that. Yes, he is elite.

    I'd say at this point in his career, Sanchez is no worse than Eli was. With less college experience and younger in years. And Sanchez was a million times better in his first playoff games. No way we can give up on this kid, not at this juncture

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=jetswin;4255179]ummm, we played in the past two AFC championship games...:confused:[/QUOTE]

    I don't think we should let [b][u]FACTS[/u][/b] get in the way of [b]PMarsico[/b] attempting to sound smart, you know? :zzz:


    :D

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    Look here is what it comes down to. To everyone who hates Sanchez or wants a change at QB, how do you realistically give up on a guy after 3 seasons that you moved into the top 5 of the draft to get and have invested so much in already? Sanchez may or may not be a "franchise" QB, you can debate that at this point in his career. My question is, what do you want to do as an alternative? The most logical move would be to see what he can do in a new system and with a new coach. I truly think that this would be best for Sanchez and the Jets.

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    [QUOTE=Lithfan;4255175]I wouldn't say I am a Sanchez supporter - but I wouldn't say I am a critic either. I just don't know what to make of him.

    As I posted in another thread earlier today, [B]he was 15/20, 155 yards on the 4 TD drives yesterday and 2/15, 25 yards and a pick on the Jets other 7 possessions. When he is good, he is very good but when he is bad, he is awful.[/B]I agree that I would love to see what would happen if he were in a different system with a new OC and a new QB coach. Maybe we could finally figure out what we've got[/QUOTE]

    That's insane. Thanks for posting.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=jetswin;4255032]To start with I'm a defender of Sanchez, as I've said in recent weeks I feel his problems have had more to do with lousy, pass routes, blocking, playcalling, and a lack of protection from the officials making him free game for pass rushers. Yesterday two of these problems were resolved imho, the line played very well, and the refs actually threw a flag for a personal foul.

    Now the point of my thread, 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives. It is no secret in under three years Sanchez excels in this department (as well as playoff wins, but that's for another discussion). The QB position in Jets history has not been a pretty picture for the most part and I will include only notable players that put in at least three years with the Jets for this comparison, only using their Jets stats.

    [LIST=1][*]Joe Namath - 16 4qc/ 16 gwd[*]Vinnie [b]Testeverde[/b] - 14 4qc/ 13 gwd[*]Ken OBrien - 13 4qc/ 16 gwd[*]Mark Sanchez - 8 4qc/ 10 gwd[*]Chad Pennington - 5 4qc/ 9 gwd[*]Richard Todd - 5 4qc/ 9 gwd[*]Boomer Esaison - 1 4qc/ 2 gwd[/LIST]OB, Pennington, Todd, and Namath all put in nearly a decade with the Jets, Namath was a Hall of Famer. Vinnies numbers were terrific considering it was done in three seasons, but his numbers all around for his career are eye popping. FTR, Todd had 5 more 4 qc's and gwd's with New Orleans after he left in one season.

    Bottom line is Sanchez has not completed his third season yet, has been saddled (most of us would say) with Shottenheimer as a play caller and designer, and has had a revolving door at WR. He brings something to this franchize that will put him at the top of the (Jets) heap if he continues at this pace. Stats are nice, but winning games, ugly or pretty, in tight spots, with a lot on the line, is nicer.[/QUOTE]

    How dare ye, kind sir!! To misspell the name of the paisan. :eek:

    Seriously, though. It's Testaverde, not Testeverde. Just saying. :yes:

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    As previously noted a handful of his "comebacks" were absolute gifts from the opposing team.

    Overall the 4th quarter is his worst quarter. They showed the graphic during yesterday's game.

    Still need to see him carry the team for a game. On his back. Just one game.

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    [QUOTE=Vin;4255234]How dare ye, kind sir!! To misspell the name of the paisan. :eek:

    Seriously, though. It's Testaverde, not Testeverde. Just saying. :yes:[/QUOTE]
    :eek:

    bad job on my part, duly noted

    lol

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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4255236]As previously noted a handful of his "comebacks" were absolute gifts from the opposing team.

    Overall the 4th quarter is his worst quarter. They showed the graphic during yesterday's game.

    Still need to see him carry the team for a game. On his back. Just one game.[/QUOTE]

    No, it's his best.

    They showed a graphic about completion percentage yesterday -- two weeks ago in the Pats game they showed a graphic that had his passer rating going up in every quarter (which fits better with what we've all observed as fans).

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4255236]As previously noted a handful of his "comebacks" were absolute gifts from the opposing team.

    Overall the 4th quarter is his worst quarter. They showed the graphic during yesterday's game.

    Still need to see him carry the team for a game. On his back. Just one game.[/QUOTE]

    This is ridiculous. [B]I can scrutinize any GWD[/B]. Eli manning in his famous Superbowl GWD has a dropped pick and a superhuman catch. Bottom line is he doesn't freeze up in pressure spots and gets the job done.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Austin;4255243]No, it's his best.

    They showed a graphic about completion percentage yesterday -- two weeks ago in the Pats game they showed a graphic that had his passer rating going up in every quarter (which fits better with what we've all observed as fans).[/QUOTE]

    Sanchez' biggest problem is his inaccuracy.

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