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Thread: Leadership and Accountability with the Jets

  1. #1
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    Leadership and Accountability with the Jets

    My take on the state of the franchise is boils down to a couple of things; Leadership and Accountability. We are an average team this year, thats the facts. The stable leadership that we once had with Woody, Faneca, Cotchery, Jenkins and even Drew Coleman is gone. On the offensive line I don't see the leadership from Mangold and Ferg that I expected at this point in their careers. They both should be tutoring both Hunter and Slauson after each misses assignment or block. Being at 3 games this year, I just don't see that from the stands to the sidelines or on tape after watching the game. On defense, clearly we are missing some pieces or players like Scott have regressed to a point that next year they have to be replaced. The Thomas injury hurt us in a starter and depth - which leads me to my next thing > Accountability has to be placed on the head on Tannenbaum for the lack of depth at key positions to the point that we have undrafted players starting for us. Maybin has been a solid performer for us, and with his team leading 6 sacks (I think) he has made a difference. Kudos for Tanny looking at the possibility that Maybin brings. But he isn't a starter he's a situational player. As I see it, the WR's that we have aren't being accountable for not being able to get open consistently on pre snap calls. It's a bit easier to get open when a play breaks down like it did yesterday and Sanchez and Holmes made a play, but I'm seeing a pattern where our WR's aren't able to get seperation and Holmes is getting double teamed that means Burress and Keller aren't being able to take advantage of there opportunities. Loosing Cotchery and Mason hurt us this year as they have been reliable targets who where able to sit down in zone or open spots in the middle of the field and make plays. We currently do not have that on our roster this year, and for that Tanny has to be accountable for.

    As far as the Offensive Coordinator is concerned - Maybe Shotty needs to be replaced, but I played HS & College football, and at both levels from what I witnessed, the players are responsible for producing whatever plays are being called. Sanchez is throwing INT's not because of bad play calls, players are not getting open not because of bad play calls, the OL isn't pass protecting as well as they should not because of play calls. That said, while the players have to be accountable I do blame Shotty for the lack of development for Sanchez. As the OC whether you have a QB coach or not Sanchez has enough skills that you should have been able to coach him up to the next level. I see other QB's with equal or lessor skills being able to produce with equal or lessor skill set. Orton and Fitzgerald have done far better than Sanchez with less talent, shoot look at Ponder in Cincy..

    The other issue that I would like to bring up that I haven't seen embedded on this site is that while we all collectively hate to admit it, clearly Pete Carroll was correct in his assessment of Sanchez. Sanchez wasn't ready for the NFL and needed another year which is why his progression hasn't been what it should be from where we drafted him. I also suspect that next year will be a far better year for him statistically - especially if we upgrade our WR's and defense.

    Our mediocre team probably will not make the playoffs this year and while that sucks royally because of lackluster performances to teams that we should have beaten like the Broncos and Raiders - it also means that we should have a mid teen draft position with the compliment of ALL of our 7 draft selections, that and tanny's penchant for making draft day deals and a mediocre season should drive him to improve our roster that much more than he attempted to do this year. I will delay my SB hopes for another year.

    Brick

  2. #2
    the only leader i see on offense is sanchez, who takes blame for everything that goes wrong with the offense. if a wr drops a pass, sanchez says he has to throw better. if the running game isn't working, sanchez blames himself and says if he were more effective, there would be more yards on the ground. when the o-line sucks, sanchez says he has to get rid of the ball quicker. i think it's clear he's just saying all this and really doesn't believe it. he knows that's how it has to be, and that's that. you think he doesn't know when it's his fault and when mulligan, hunter, greene or someone else messes up? please.

  3. #3
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    Good post.

  4. #4
    ...he's a Brick...How-iss...

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=2foolish197;4255445]...he's a Brick...How-iss...[/QUOTE]

    mighty mighty, just lettin' it all hang ohwwttt....


    BTW, why in the world is Tone a captain?

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4255458]
    BTW, why in the world is Tone a captain?[/QUOTE]

    Because Rex didn't let the team vote for their own captains this year.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=JB1089;4255466]Because Rex didn't let the team vote for their own captains this year.[/QUOTE]

    Oh... he was a terrible choice. Really, none of the WR's deserve to be a captain. Being a gifted athlete who is a clutch player is not the criteria for captaincy. Should've given Tone's spot to Keller.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4255458]mighty mighty, just lettin' it all hang ohwwttt....


    BTW, why in the world is Tone a captain?[/QUOTE]

    Because of his swagger. And his cool locker room speeches.

  9. #9
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    Imagine who the captains would be if Parcells was here? Hmmm, maybe Connor?

  10. #10
    I was actually going to start a new post comparing last years team to this years team to find out what the heck is wrong with the 2011 version of the new york jets. Leadership aside because that is a somewhat tangible yet important aspect, what is missing?

    Defensively, yes we lost Shaun Ellis, Jenkins (although he played less than one half of one game last year) Coleman, Lowery, Jason Taylor and Bryan Thomas (to injury) but we added Donald Strickland, Lankster Ellis/Isiah Trufant (whoever is healthy this week), Mo Wilkerson, Maybin, some additional beef up front as well as Kyle Wilson playing at an entirely different level this year.

    On offense, we lost Brad Smith (no big deal), Cotch, Robert Turner, T-Rich, Braylon, but we added Plaxico in Braylon's place, we have seen Kerley emerge and we have been using Joe McKnight even more this year where he still has a role. LT when he returns will continue to play at a high level as he has done all year. As for the RT position, I know you can't compare Hunter to Big Wood but Woody missed the last few weeks and playoffs last year. Hunter stepped up.

    So what is the difference between this year and last? Please explain.

  11. #11
    Younger players make more mistakes.

    The offensive line hasn't played nearly as well as they did last year.


    Also, Hunter's play at the end of last year was tremendously overrated by this fan base. Go back and watch the games. He was passable, OK at best. Your expectations were low, so you weren't expecting much. This year, people expected him to play like a starting RT.

    Hunter is the backup QB that came in and played well in a handful of games, then people went "Hey, he should be the starter!" Then the next years rolls around and people go "Oh, that's why he was the backup."

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=frankiepapa;4255567]I was actually going to start a new post comparing last years team to this years team to find out what the heck is wrong with the 2011 version of the new york jets. Leadership aside because that is a somewhat tangible yet important aspect, what is missing?

    Defensively, yes we lost Shaun Ellis, Jenkins (although he played less than one half of one game last year) Coleman, Lowery, Jason Taylor and Bryan Thomas (to injury) but we added Donald Strickland, Lankster Ellis/Isiah Trufant (whoever is healthy this week), Mo Wilkerson, Maybin, some additional beef up front as well as Kyle Wilson playing at an entirely different level this year.

    On offense, we lost Brad Smith (no big deal), Cotch, Robert Turner, T-Rich, Braylon, but we added Plaxico in Braylon's place, we have seen Kerley emerge and we have been using Joe McKnight even more this year where he still has a role. LT when he returns will continue to play at a high level as he has done all year. As for the RT position, I know you can't compare Hunter to Big Wood but Woody missed the last few weeks and playoffs last year. Hunter stepped up.

    So what is the difference between this year and last? Please explain.[/QUOTE]

    I think very little actually. Last year they pulled four games out of their a----, games they shouldn't have won they found a way with miraculous last minutes wins. This year it's simply gone the other way.

    It's not like the team was dominant last year.

  13. #13
    Besides LT offering up the pre game speeches there are no leaders on this team.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=BrickHouse;4255430]My take on the state of the franchise is boils down to a couple of things; Leadership and Accountability. We are an average team this year, thats the facts. The stable leadership that we once had with Woody, Faneca, Cotchery, Jenkins and even Drew Coleman is gone. On the offensive line I don't see the leadership from Mangold and Ferg that I expected at this point in their careers. They both should be tutoring both Hunter and Slauson after each misses assignment or block. Being at 3 games this year, I just don't see that from the stands to the sidelines or on tape after watching the game. On defense, clearly we are missing some pieces or players like Scott have regressed to a point that next year they have to be replaced. The Thomas injury hurt us in a starter and depth - which leads me to my next thing > Accountability has to be placed on the head on Tannenbaum for the lack of depth at key positions to the point that we have undrafted players starting for us. Maybin has been a solid performer for us, and with his team leading 6 sacks (I think) he has made a difference. Kudos for Tanny looking at the possibility that Maybin brings. But he isn't a starter he's a situational player. As I see it, the WR's that we have aren't being accountable for not being able to get open consistently on pre snap calls. It's a bit easier to get open when a play breaks down like it did yesterday and Sanchez and Holmes made a play, but I'm seeing a pattern where our WR's aren't able to get seperation and Holmes is getting double teamed that means Burress and Keller aren't being able to take advantage of there opportunities. Loosing Cotchery and Mason hurt us this year as they have been reliable targets who where able to sit down in zone or open spots in the middle of the field and make plays. We currently do not have that on our roster this year, and for that Tanny has to be accountable for.

    As far as the Offensive Coordinator is concerned - Maybe Shotty needs to be replaced, but I played HS & College football, and at both levels from what I witnessed, the players are responsible for producing whatever plays are being called. Sanchez is throwing INT's not because of bad play calls, players are not getting open not because of bad play calls, the OL isn't pass protecting as well as they should not because of play calls. That said, while the players have to be accountable I do blame Shotty for the lack of development for Sanchez. As the OC whether you have a QB coach or not Sanchez has enough skills that you should have been able to coach him up to the next level. I see other QB's with equal or lessor skills being able to produce with equal or lessor skill set. Orton and Fitzgerald have done far better than Sanchez with less talent, shoot look at Ponder in Cincy..

    The other issue that I would like to bring up that I haven't seen embedded on this site is that while we all collectively hate to admit it, clearly Pete Carroll was correct in his assessment of Sanchez. Sanchez wasn't ready for the NFL and needed another year which is why his progression hasn't been what it should be from where we drafted him. I also suspect that next year will be a far better year for him statistically - especially if we upgrade our WR's and defense.

    Our mediocre team probably will not make the playoffs this year and while that sucks royally because of lackluster performances to teams that we should have beaten like the Broncos and Raiders - it also means that we should have a mid teen draft position with the compliment of ALL of our 7 draft selections, that and tanny's penchant for making draft day deals and a mediocre season should drive him to improve our roster that much more than he attempted to do this year. I will delay my SB hopes for another year.

    Brick[/QUOTE]

    another expert weighs in with 20/20 hindsight from his couch

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=BrickHouse;4255430]

    As far as the Offensive Coordinator is concerned - Maybe Shotty needs to be replaced, but I played HS & College football, and at both levels from what I witnessed, the players are responsible for producing whatever plays are being called. Sanchez is throwing INT's not because of bad play calls, players are not getting open not because of bad play calls, the OL isn't pass protecting as well as they should not because of play calls.

    That said, while the players have to be accountable I do blame Shotty for the lack of development for Sanchez. As the OC whether you have a QB coach or not Sanchez has enough skills that you should have been able to coach him up to the next level. I see other QB's with equal or lessor skills being able to produce with equal or lessor skill set.

    Brick[/QUOTE]


    IMO you can't really blame any of the Jets roster right now. From what I'm watching on game days it seems that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. I'm sure Nacho enjoys calling a few bootlegs at the line of scrimmage, but c'mon Brick even you as a former player knows that if you don't stick to the script, somebodys going to flub the play. Or worse, get hurt due to miscommunication from the QB. That's downright dangerous, especially for the O line guys.

    Maybe the problem isn't Brian Schottenheimer, but that some players on the offense aren't taking Brian Schottenheimer seriously as the OC. Hey, it worked for Brett Farve including the part where he forgot to tell said OC that he was hurt & playing for stats instead of wins.

    Let's see what happens this Sunday for as they say, time will tell & I'm thinking that Monday, February 6, 2012 could be a very bad day for some NYJ employees if the team doesn't make it into the post season.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4255471]Oh... he was a terrible choice. Really, none of the WR's deserve to be a captain. Being a gifted athlete who is a clutch player is not the criteria for captaincy. Should've given Tone's spot to Keller.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. In general, WR's as a group tend to be comprised of the most self-centered,egotistical, me-first characters in the NFL. Far worse than all other positions. Holmes being a "Captain" is one of the most absurd things on the Jets, in a very long time, notwithstanding foot fetish videos.

  17. #17
    on field leadership on a jets team is a non sequiter. at least in years past and maybe this season too. part of that is because the team was so busy sucking in the 70's and for most of the 90's. the leadership needs to be developed. holmes a team captain? probably not a good choice for the team but maybe rex wanted to make sure holmes was the guy so he stays motivated. and sometimes holmes plays pretty darn well, other times....... sanchez does need to be the team leader though it does no good if he takes all the losses on himself. he needs to get in the face of the guys who aren't performing.

    schitty? what a loser. he has no sideline presence. how do we know this? because he never approaches the oline or offense or sanchez during their off field times. what's he doing? looking at the jet defense play? the real problem here is that how schitty goes is how the other offensive coaches and the offensive team goes. hence the lack of fire and concern. add that to plays that don't work and it's really amazing that this team has made the playoffs the past two seasons.

    not saying and never said launching schitty is the be all end all of the jet offensive problems but this guy is clearly the major cause and he is the common thread for the past 5 seasons.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=sg3;4255765]another expert weighs in with 20/20 hindsight from his couch[/QUOTE]

    This forum is for critical analysis and the uninhibited expression of ideas, concerns and thoughts. Its not for continual circle jerk group mutual masturbation, as it seems you want it to be. Geez, that would turn it into a patriots.com forum. There, any critical expression is stifled and the poster banished. And as you know well, I am no fan of chronic negativity. There is a desirable middle ground. This thread is a good example of that.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=Dcat;4255982]This forum is for critical analysis and the uninhibited expression of ideas, concerns and thoughts. Its not for continual circle jerk group mutual masturbation, as it seems you want it to be. [/QUOTE]

    TMI. Had to stop right there.
    :D

    And while I do enjoy reading everyones written contributions here, I must concur that SG is a unique poster that at times can come off a bit snippy if you dont agree with him or her. IDK Ive never met SG in person.

    Sans that and on topic, I think the OP raises a lot of valid points, but I also think there needs to be a coaches only meeting this week and generals get down with majors on a winning game plan. Or Monday, February 6, 2012 is going to be a very bad day.

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=JB1089;4255661]Younger players make more mistakes.

    The offensive line hasn't played nearly as well as they did last year.


    Also, Hunter's play at the end of last year was tremendously overrated by this fan base. Go back and watch the games. He was passable, OK at best. Your expectations were low, so you weren't expecting much. This year, people expected him to play like a starting RT.

    Hunter is the backup QB that came in and played well in a handful of games, then people went "Hey, he should be the starter!" Then the next years rolls around and people go "Oh, that's why he was the backup."[/QUOTE]

    +100000
    Trying to win championships and rebuild at the same time is very hard to do. Even the Patriots have problems with that. The Steelers are really the only team/franchise that have been able to bring players into the system and win champioships at the same time consistently.

    But I do agree that its not the end of the world if we dont make the playoffs. Get a mid round first pick and continue to get younger and more athletic. Overall Rex has done very well with his drafts. The only bad pick really was Ducasses and I think that that was a Tanny influenced special because they both went to UMASS!

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