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Thread: QB dept. : Sanchez & Eli - a Year 3 Comparison ~ ~ ~

  1. #1
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    QB dept. : Sanchez & Eli - a Year 3 Comparison ~ ~ ~

    > [url]http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/27/sanchez-and-eli-manning-a-year-3-comparison/[/url]

  2. #2
    Classic example of how to paint a false picture. He compares QBs in completely different environments and then ignores fumbles and how easily avoidable(and costly) Sanchez's mistakes were this season.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=jxc;4296448]Classic example of how to paint a false picture. He compares QBs in completely different environments and then ignores fumbles and how easily avoidable(and costly) Sanchez's mistakes were this season.[/QUOTE]
    true enough.

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    Like comparing a man to a woman.

  5. #5
    Yeap this is apples and oranges.

    We will discount Eli's 43 games and 1300+ attempts in his 4 year college career before even stepping into an NFL game but not give Mark the benefit of the doubt with only 16 college starts and leaving early as a junior.

    We need to count Sanchez's fumbles but negate his rushing TDs.

    We won't discuss Eli's stupid INTs but we will include Sanchez's dropped interception total.

    We will not break down film and analyze Eli's penchant for throwing desperate heaves off his back foot when under pressure but we will disparage Sanchez when he takes a sack under pressure after his OL folds.


    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    When is this going to finally stop?

    Mark certainly has areas of improvement that he must fix in order to make the jump to the next level - like every other NFL QB in the league.

    Despite the team as a whole regressing - look at the OL, rushing offense, defense and special teams and production is down - Mark has still managed to improve his numbers despite being anchored down by Schotty play calling.

    I am not a Sanchez apologist but sometimes you guys go overboard with the Sanchez hate. I remember watching Eli up until the last four games & playoffs in the 2007 Super Bowl season - he was an absolutely maddening train wreck. There were games where he was absolutely horrible and where he played great, an inconsistency shared by Sanchez.

    Is Sanchez improving as fast as we would like? No he isn't but when you haven't won a SB in 40 years anything less than instant gratification is dissappointing.

    That being said, unlike in the past few years where Sanchez has been holding the team back, I think the team is really hurting Sanchez:

    Playcalling has been crappy with poor timing throughout the season - that is on Schotty.

    WRs have run lazy routes, given up on plays and dropped easy catches - that is on Holmes, Burress and Keller.

    OL has done nothing in the run game and pass protection - that is on injuries to Moore, Mangold and Turner + poor play by Hunter.

    ST have given up a league high 6 turnovers - that is on the ST players and Westoff.

    Defense can't wait to give up a TD - that is on blowhard Bart Scott who has been exposed this year as a fraud and the inability of safeties to make a tackle or cover.

    There is a lot wrong with the NYJets this year and it isn't all on the QB.

  6. #6
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    point of this article is simple.... he may still develop.

  7. #7
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    more re mark -

    > [url]http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/mark-sanchez-speaks-about-love-for-jets/[/url]

  8. #8
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    On Mark Sanchez's biggest tendency

    Third-year quarterback Mark Sanchez has been under a lot of criticism following the New York Jets' two-game losing streak. This stretch most likely cost New York a spot in the playoffs.But the AFC East blog decided to look deep inside the numbers to figure out parts where Sanchez must improve next season, and we found something that was very interesting.Everyone who watches the Jets on a regular basis knows Sanchez throws a lot over the middle. But how much is too much?

    According to ESPN's Stats and Information, Sanchez has thrown 305 of his 511 passes inside the numbers. To Sanchez's credit, he's completed 62 percent of those passes over the middle. But opponents have clearly picked up this tendency. Ten of Sanchez's 15 interceptions also have come inside the numbers.Crowd the tight end over the middle and watch the slants to receivers, and you've pretty much figured out the Jets' passing game. New York is ranked 27th in the NFL, despite a bevy of talented weapons.

    Sanchez and offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer need to do a better job of being less predictable with New York's passing attack. Using the entire field would go a long way to helping the Jets.

    > [url]http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/36211/on-mark-sanchezs-biggest-tendency[/url]

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=klecko73;4296582]Yeap this is apples and oranges.

    We will discount Eli's 43 games and 1300+ attempts in his 4 year college career before even stepping into an NFL game but not give Mark the benefit of the doubt with only 16 college starts and leaving early as a junior.

    We need to count Sanchez's fumbles but negate his rushing TDs.

    We won't discuss Eli's stupid INTs but we will include Sanchez's dropped interception total.

    We will not break down film and analyze Eli's penchant for throwing desperate heaves off his back foot when under pressure but we will disparage Sanchez when he takes a sack under pressure after his OL folds.

    When is this going to finally stop?

    Mark certainly has areas of improvement that he must fix in order to make the jump to the next level - like every other NFL QB in the league.

    Despite the team as a whole regressing - look at the OL, rushing offense, defense and special teams and production is down - Mark has still managed to improve his numbers despite being anchored down by Schotty play calling.

    I am not a Sanchez apologist but sometimes you guys go overboard with the Sanchez hate. I remember watching Eli up until the last four games & playoffs in the 2007 Super Bowl season - he was an absolutely maddening train wreck. There were games where he was absolutely horrible and where he played great, an inconsistency shared by Sanchez.

    Is Sanchez improving as fast as we would like? No he isn't but when you haven't won a SB in 40 years anything less than instant gratification is dissappointing.

    That being said, unlike in the past few years where Sanchez has been holding the team back, I think the team is really hurting Sanchez:

    Playcalling has been crappy with poor timing throughout the season - that is on Schotty.

    WRs have run lazy routes, given up on plays and dropped easy catches - that is on Holmes, Burress and Keller.

    OL has done nothing in the run game and pass protection - that is on injuries to Moore, Mangold and Turner + poor play by Hunter.

    ST have given up a league high 6 turnovers - that is on the ST players and Westoff.

    Defense can't wait to give up a TD - that is on blowhard Bart Scott who has been exposed this year as a fraud and the inability of safeties to make a tackle or cover.

    There is a lot wrong with the NYJets this year and it isn't all on the QB.[/QUOTE]

    This is a very good post.

    Sanchez's regression and slick-fingered play is clearly a factor in the fail of 2011, but just ONE factor of many.

    Nice job Klecko73.

    EDIT: This may actually be the BEST post of the Jets 2011 downfall that I've read yet. Clear, concise, direct and factual. Holds Sanchez accountable, but fairly, and reminds that he has done more, sooner, than most QB's do (we all forget Sanchez came out so early and with so little experience).

    The 7 losses of 2011 thus far was a team effort.

    :clapper: :clapper: :clapper:

    A Post of the Year Nominee IMO.
    Last edited by Warfish; 12-28-2011 at 12:00 PM.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=kelly;4296370]> [URL]http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/27/sanchez-and-eli-manning-a-year-3-comparison/[/URL][/QUOTE]

    great insight. Wish I'd thought of that :D

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=Jungle Shift Jet;4296525]Like comparing a man to a woman.[/QUOTE]

    I see what you did there ~



    :D




    .

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=jxc;4296448]Classic example of how to paint a false picture. He compares QBs in completely different environments and then ignores fumbles and how easily avoidable(and costly) Sanchez's mistakes were this season.[/QUOTE]

    Excellent point.

    Could you please provide a breakdown of how easily avoidable (and costly) Eli's mistakes were in his third season?

    Re fumbles, Mark's had 10. In his third year, Manning had 9. Yep, huge difference. (The difference is Mark lost 8 of those 10 this year, while Manning lost only 2 in 2006. But while the ability to not fumble is a skill, the ability to have your fumbles recovered by your own team is not. [URL="http://www.advancednflstats.com/2007/04/fumbles-and-fumbles-lost.html"]It's [/URL][URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2008/fumble-luck-2007"]pure[/URL] [URL="http://www.aolnews.com/2008/11/25/sorry-lovie-smith-forcing-fumbles-is-a-skill-recovering-fumbl/"]luck)[/URL].

    And lets talk environment. In 2006, Manning played behind one of the best OLs in the league, had a dominant rushing game, excellent receivers (Burress in his prime, Toomer, Shockey). How much worse was his "environment" than Sanchez', in your view?

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Play2Win;4296604]point of this article is simple.... he may still develop.[/QUOTE]

    NFL is a win now league. Jets are a win now team. Careers are at stake. Sanchez is nearing end of the line. Next year is make or break.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4296831]Excellent point.

    Could you please provide a breakdown of how easily avoidable (and costly) Eli's mistakes were in his third season?

    Re fumbles, Mark's had 10. In his third year, Manning had 9. Yep, huge difference. (The difference is Mark lost 8 of those 10 this year, while Manning lost only 2 in 2006. But while the ability to not fumble is a skill, the ability to have your fumbles recovered by your own team is not. [URL="http://www.advancednflstats.com/2007/04/fumbles-and-fumbles-lost.html"]It's [/URL][URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2008/fumble-luck-2007"]pure[/URL] [URL="http://www.aolnews.com/2008/11/25/sorry-lovie-smith-forcing-fumbles-is-a-skill-recovering-fumbl/"]luck)[/URL].

    And lets talk environment. In 2006, Manning played behind one of the best OLs in the league, had a dominant rushing game, excellent receivers (Burress in his prime, Toomer, Shockey). How much worse was his "environment" than Sanchez', in your view?[/QUOTE]



    The lost fumble thing is pure luck for the most part.....Last year Sanchez had 8 fumbles and only 1 lost...Year 1 he also had 10 fumbles but only 3 lost...

    Fumbles are fumbles, pretty much luck if recovered or lost...

    Lots of QB's fumble....

    Moore....14.....316 ATT
    Gabbert..13
    McCoy....11
    Tebow....11
    Flacco.....11
    Bradford..10....357 ATT
    Sanchez..10....511 ATT....Mangold hits his own leg and Sanchez gets FL
    Vick........9......384 ATT
    Rivers.....9
    Big Ben...8
    Eli..........8
    Grossman.8
    Kolb........8.....253 ATT
    Ponder.....6....281 ATT


    He needs to protect the ball better and be more aware but hardly the only QB to have problems....About the same as his first 2 years except very few resulted in TO's....Lots more sacks and poorer OL play this year does not help...Has led to regression in pocket presence and awareness....

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4296844]NFL is a win now league. Jets are a win now team. Careers are at stake. Sanchez is nearing end of the line. Next year is make or break.[/QUOTE]

    If they replace Schotty, Next year won't be make or break 'cause Mark would have to learn a new system basically(unless Callahan does take over, then you're right).

  16. #16
    at this point, i have forgotten what Mark Sanchez does well anymore. What is his strength? What does he do well? All i see are weaknesses.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4297000]at this point, i have forgotten what Mark Sanchez does well anymore. What is his strength? What does he do well? All i see are weaknesses.[/QUOTE]

    He does 4th QT comebacks well.....I think. [img]http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif[/img]


    He can score TDs with his feet....I guess.



    He can throw the ball deep....if he had any Receivers who can get separation(which he doesn't). :rolleyes:

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4296844]NFL is a win now league. Jets are a win now team. Careers are at stake. Sanchez is nearing end of the line. Next year is make or break.[/QUOTE]

    Jets are not a "Win now team". NY fans are "win now fans". We have a young RB, young QB, young D if you discount Bart. Our O-line is still young. Where is the "win now" rush besides the fans being impatient.

    This "win now" attitude is a direct result of the Yankees spoiling NY fans for years.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4297000]at this point, i have forgotten what Mark Sanchez does well anymore. What is his strength? What does he do well? All i see are weaknesses.[/QUOTE]

    Great questions. I can't really think of any areas where he is better than your average NFL starting QB among the important QB attributes:

    Accuracy
    Decision-Making
    Arm Strength
    Pocket Awareness
    Mobility
    Release

    For all the talk about how offense should be built around Sanchez's strengths, I haven't seen what those are.

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4296844]NFL is a win now league. Jets are a win now team. Careers are at stake. Sanchez is nearing end of the line. Next year is make or break.[/QUOTE]

    Not for nothing but did you say win now team? Wow talk about crazy talk. Please tell me in what area of football our team excels right now?

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