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Thread: It's not Sanchez or Shotty, We just don't have Big Play Makers.

  1. #1

    It's not Sanchez or Shotty, We just don't have Big Play Makers.

    To get to that conclusion, I took the time to go play by play using NFL Rewind. A lot more sober and less emotional than I was at the game, I found most of my assumptions Sunday were wrong.

    Here is a link to the detailed play by play with notes: [url]https://gigamail2.siteprotect.com/file/view/1/5affab866ec6861baa22d103b76d584a[/url]

    First, you have to accept the premise that the Ryan\Shotty plan was to ground and pound both through the air and on the ground. Doesn't matter whose idea it was, everyone bought in and it worked phenomanally through the first half:

    145 yds passing vs 47 yds running

    Pass
    28 attempts; 18 completions = 64.3% 5.1 yds per pass
    3 were flat out drops (one hit Keller in the helmet) so it should be 21 completions = 75% completion rating

    And of the 7 missed not one pass was horrible, they were either slightly long, calcuated risks, excellent defensive play, or missed Oline blocks

    Run
    10 attempts for 47 yards = 4.7 yds per carry. Damn good as well.

    No wonder the TV Commentators were raving about the great mix of pass and run! And how the Jets had absoultely dominated so far.

    So at least for the first half, what coach in his right mind wouldn't be ecstatic with those numbers? Of course they continued the plan into the second, why wouldn't they?

    And don't forget, except for the explosive Cruz play, Giants were horrible:

    Giants Jets
    6 rush yds 47
    176 (77) Pass yds 138 (Subtracting the 99 yds)
    4 1st downs 13
    3 20+ yd plays 0
    10:54 Possession 19:06

    2nd Half:

    1st 3 plays were failed passes... Giants had figured us out, duh.

    Shotty immeadiately went to the run and was very successful:
    5 yds, 8yds, 4 yds... Sack (the OLine is starting to crumble)

    Have to pass here and Sanchez throws a bad one and we have to punt

    Next set, Shotty has adjusted, stays with the run:
    7yds Green, 6yds Tomlinson
    5yd penalty, we have to pass again
    7 yd pass
    10 yrd penalty

    At this point Sanchez is under constant pressure, Shotty is mixing it up,
    9yd pass
    13 yrd run
    Holmes drops a perfect pass
    6 yd pass
    Holmes drops another perfect pass

    So by the end of the 3rd quarter it's still close, we are no longer dominating, but the Giants are doing squat either,
    EXCEPT FOR EXPLOSIVE PLAYS BY JACOBS.

    4th quarter - It all falls apart
    Oline is getting beat almost every play, Sanchez starts making bad decisions but:

    a) He's getting the s**t kicked out of him, and b) It's a situation he will learn to handle over time, it's not a firing offense.

    Six minutes into the 4th: 1.6 yd rush avg 4.9 yd pass avg

    Obviously the run is not working, of course Shotty stays with the pass.

    See the play by play link above for the rest of quarter but the short story is the whole offense fell apart, not just Sanchez.

    My conclusions:
    1) Sanchez's play and Shotty's game plan were phenomenal 1st half and not horrible 3rd Quarter.
    2) If we had players to make a few explosive plays like Cruz and Jacobs, momentum clearly would have been on our side and the 4th quarter collapse may not have happened.
    3) Sanchez is not the inaccurate thrower he is portrayed as, a big chunk of the incompletes were drops, intelligent throwaways, or bad decisions under pressure.
    4) He will grow out of the bad decisions, and he does have the talent
    5) Given the strategy decision to play conservative with a ground and air "ground and pound," Shotty's game plan was a good one for the 1st half, and he adjusted well for the 3rd quarter.
    6) Should Shotty have had a plan for "what if our line goes to hell and everyone starts screwing up"? Maybe, but I can't think of what it would be.

  2. #2
    I agree in general that they need a deep threat. But look at that Cruz play, Eli made a fantastic throw from his own end zone, a half second before getting crushed. In other words if the QB executes at a higher rate than 56%, there will be big plays.

  3. #3
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    Ummm, okay.

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4296905]I agree in general that they need a deep threat. But look at that Cruz play, Eli made a fantastic throw from his own end zone, a half second before getting crushed. [B]In other words if the QB executes at a higher rate than 56%, there will be big plays.[/B][/QUOTE]


    As evidenced by Eli's 33% completion rate :rolleyes:

    Excellent write up JNN. The poor pass protection and lack of playmakers are a huge problem.

  5. #5
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    Watch great offensive teams you either see the WR wide ass open or the QB throws it up and the WR makes a great play to go up and get it.

    Our WR do niether. Why are our WR never open? They get no separation ever. Sanchez has the tightest window on every throw.

    Sanchez is developing poor habits but they stem from poor coaching and gameplan. Schott is the first problem you need to eradicate. Hire Tom Moore FT next year and see how Sanchez does. Meanwhile draft a true #1 WR and let Holmes sulk as a #2.

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=nclion;4296929] Meanwhile draft a true #1 WR and let Holmes sulk as a #2.[/QUOTE]

    only Jets fans would take Mark Sanchez over Santonio Holmes. Holmes has a ring, a SB MVP and a thousand clutch catches. Sanchez has a GQ spread, a bunch of broads and what exactly? Why do people think mark Sanchez is any good? this is not a rhetorical question.

  7. #7
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    It's the entire offense.

    Sanchez, Schitty, the receivers, the backfield, the OL...all haven't performed up to expectations.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=bitonti;4296905]I agree in general that they need a deep threat. But look at that Cruz play, Eli made a fantastic throw from his own end zone, a half second before getting crushed. In other words if the QB executes at a higher rate than 56%, there will be big plays.[/QUOTE]

    +1.

    Solid post.

    Mark rarely hits receivers in stride. If you look at Holmes' career, most of his big plays come on slants and the like. Mark still isn't accurate enough throwing those kinds of routes.

    Doesn't excuse Holmes' lousy play of late, but it's worth pointing out that our biggest big-play guy needs the ball in stride to hit big plays.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4296905]I agree in general that they need a deep threat. But look at that Cruz play, Eli made a fantastic throw from his own end zone, a half second before getting crushed. In other words if the QB executes at a higher rate than 56%, there will be big plays.[/QUOTE]

    Eli completed 34% of his passes in that game.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=SMC;4297065]Eli completed 34% of his passes in that game.[/QUOTE]

    lol. owned.

  11. #11
    Holmes is an explosive playmaker. But they need a speedster opposite him. And Keller is soooo overrrated. Jets need Gronkowsky!

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4296964]only Jets fans would take Mark Sanchez over Santonio Holmes. Holmes has a ring, a SB MVP and a thousand clutch catches. Sanchez has a GQ spread, a bunch of broads and what exactly? Why do people think mark Sanchez is any good? this is not a rhetorical question.[/QUOTE]

    Sanchez has 4 road playoff wins, 10 4th quarter comebacks and is 24.
    Holmes is past his prime, has poor a attitude and has slipped in play this season.

  13. #13
    The Giants played Jets football and the Jets played like we had Peyton Manning under center.:yes:

  14. #14
    Big plays are made when you confuse the D. The talent is not the issue IMO. We have plenty of big play guys. Problem is a 2 year old could figure out our play book week in and week out. I don't even need to look most of the time to tell you how they are lining up. Sanchez fake pumps are slow and fool no one. I just can't blame anyone other then Shotty until I see someone else calling the plays.

  15. #15
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    As was said earlier excellent write up JNN.:yes::yes:

    I laugh at all the people who act as if Sanchez was throwing to Jerry Rice and was somehow just misssing him.:eek:

    Think for a moment....

    People who act as if Eli Manning is an "elite" QB need to look at to whom he was throwing to and with whom Manning was surrounded with in his 3rd year in the NFL and then comapre that to what Sanchez aka "the Bum" is working with despite Rex's foolish and outlandish comments to the contrary.

    Manning had Plex, preshooting victim prsion version who was much better than he is now..

    Manning also had Armani Toomer who was bigger and faster than any reciver currently on the Jets...

    Manning also had Tiki Barber a boader line HOF runnig back!!!!!

    Manning also had Shockey who was a legitimate beast in catching the football and running with it thereafter.....

    Sanchez has no one in the zip code with those skill players.... There is a reason why the Steelers let Homles go don't fool yourself and go there.

    Anybody happy with CAPTIAN Holmes this year and his dropped passes and his calling out of other teammates can't be taken seriously at all....

    Finally the Giants OL in Manning's 3rd year was stout at the point of attack and durable against the pass rush...

    And the Jets OL....Ummmmm....Hunter enough said...:rolleyes:

    With all of that Sanchez still has superior stats this year to Manning in his third year...

    For Jets fans to even dream that Sanchez has elite talent around him they should wake up and apologize....:eek:

  16. #16
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    How are Piere Garcon and Austin Collie doing without a real QB?

    How was Wes Welker doing before linking up with Brady?

    Where was Randy Moss headed before going to NE?

    A real QB makes everyone around him better, including the OC.

    I actually put more blame on Sanchez than I do on Schotty. And I hate Schotty. But Schotty doesn't throw the ball at wide open recievers feet. Schotty doesn't throw the ball over the heads of wide open recievers every game. Schotty doesn't stare down recievers or hold on to the ball to long, schotty doesn't have poor pocket awareness and no clue how to step up or slide step to put more time against a rush.

    But when you put a sh!tty OC with an average QB you get the garbage we saw this year. And to be honest we saw it the last 2 years prior but we were bailed out by a top 5 D and top 5 running game and an offense built to hide the QB and limit mistakes.

    This year we asked our QB to do more with less(but we still had a lot) and he couldn't handle it. Yes his stats were better but his weakness were exposed in a big way. And i'm not sure he will every be at the level you need to truly win it all. Unless again, we have the top everything else..
    Last edited by LockeJET; 12-28-2011 at 02:54 PM.

  17. #17
    What a bull**** post. People just dont know who to blame anymore. Its like half of the fans have never watched football before.

    Holmes not a playmaker?[IMG]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2NuVSJtTMU&feature=related[/IMG]

    Keller ? [IMG]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeHgP_Q0pQw&feature=related[/IMG]

    Plaxico [IMG]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3yEiV9kkP8[/IMG]

    -we had a top 5 running game the last two years.
    -Dustin keller is going for a 60 catch, 800 yard season for a TE.
    -We have seen Plaxico have a 3 TD game, and help our redzone.
    -Remember Holmes last year? Forgot already?

    -We have playmakers. They can't do anything if the ball is thrown over their head, or no where near them. They are not being used effectively as well. A new Coordinator, and a more accurate QB would help a ton here....

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Charlie Brown;4297149]As was said earlier excellent write up JNN.:yes::yes:

    I laugh at all the people who act as if Sanchez was throwing to Jerry Rice and was somehow just misssing him.:eek:

    Think for a moment....

    People who act as if Eli Manning is an "elite" QB need to look at to whom he was throwing to and with whom Manning was surrounded with in his 3rd year in the NFL and then comapre that to what Sanchez aka "the Bum" is working with despite Rex's foolish and outlandish comments to the contrary.

    Manning had Plex, preshooting victim prsion version who was much better than he is now..

    Manning also had Armani Toomer who was bigger and faster than any reciver currently on the Jets...

    Manning also had Tiki Barber a boader line HOF runnig back!!!!!

    Manning also had Shockey who was a legitimate beast in catching the football and running with it thereafter.....

    Sanchez has no one in the zip code with those skill players.... There is a reason why the Steelers let Homles go don't fool yourself and go there.

    Anybody happy with CAPTIAN Holmes this year and his dropped passes and his calling out of other teammates can't be taken seriously at all....

    Finally the Giants OL in Manning's 3rd year was stout at the point of attack and durable against the pass rush...

    And the Jets OL....Ummmmm....Hunter enough said...:rolleyes:

    With all of that Sanchez still has superior stats this year to Manning in his third year...

    For Jets fans to even dream that Sanchez has elite talent around him they should wake up and apologize....:eek:[/QUOTE]

    Really are you being sarcastic? I really can't tell. Eli is not Elite he gives up way too many turnovers for that but he is a very good starter. I like Eli but he didn't have a lot his 3rd year out side of a good run game. There is a reason the Giants drafted so many WRs.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4296964][B]only Jets fans would take Mark Sanchez over Santonio Holmes[/B]. Holmes has a ring, a SB MVP and a thousand clutch catches. Sanchez has a GQ spread, a bunch of broads and what exactly? Why do people think mark Sanchez is any good? this is not a rhetorical question.[/QUOTE]

    I assure you, most Jets fans would not take Sanchez over Santonio Holmes.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;4296964] Sanchez has a GQ spread, a bunch of broads and what exactly? [/QUOTE]

    I look forward to seeing your GQ spread....:eek:

    EDIT: A charitable cause was involved.

    [URL]http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2011/09/mark_sanchez_donates_25000_to.html[/URL]
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 12-28-2011 at 06:29 PM.

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