Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 137

Thread: Sacrificing Brian isnít the right play

  1. #41
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    13,929
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    If you think Schottenheimer, for all his flaws (and there are a few, including in-game play-calling lapses), is the sole reason the Jets are 8-7 with only a scant chance of making it into the playoffs, youíre misinformed.
    ahh... the hark and call of the Schotty-defense. Assign the extreme view to your opponent and then call those who are critical of the young genius "misinformed" or "not a nuanced-thinker" etc., etc.

    Let me ask you a question: If Vernon Gholston wasn't the ONLY problem on defense, why did we jettison him?

  2. #42
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,179
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    That 2006 team had the benefit of a healthy team, something that undermined the 2005 squad.

    It's amazing how people ignore that little fact. The 2005 Jets lost 12 players to IR, including their starting QB and backup, after going 10-6 the year before. All players were healthy in 2006.
    You mean the great 2005 team that lost 2 out of it's first 3 with Pennington and Martin? That old defeated team that got blown out on opening day to a mediocre Chiefs team with a healthy roster and didn't just suck early but got physically mauled early? That team?

    The 2006 team looked nothing like that old crappy 2005 team. It was a completely different patched up team that was the begining of a complete rebuild, a team that looked like a 4 to 5 win team that was gritty enough to make the playoffs.

  3. #43
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    22,792
    Quote Originally Posted by jetswin View Post
    I've said since his first season (to much ridicule lol) the QB Sanchez reminds me most of is Brees. Brees was so dazzling in SD they let him go...if Sanchez can become a fraction of Brees with a different coordinator and QB coach the Jets will be in very good shape. It aint happenin' with Shotty and crew.
    I think you should brush up on Brees alittle bit..

    Brees continued his productive play in 2005, as he posted a career high in passing yards with 3,576. Brees also posted an 89.2 rating, 10th best in the NFL. However, in the last game of the 2005 season against the Denver Broncos, Brees tore his labrum while trying to pick up his own fumble after being hit by Broncos safety John Lynch.

    Brees was selected as first alternate to the AFC Pro Bowl team for the 2005 season. He would have played in his second consecutive Pro Bowl due to the injury to starter Carson Palmer, but his own injury dictated that the AFC Pro Bowl roster would have to be filled by second alternate Jake Plummer.


    After the season, the Chargers offered Brees a 5-year, $50 million contract that paid $2 million in base salary the first year and the rest heavily based on performance incentives. Brees evaluated the incentive-based offer as a sign of no confidence by the Chargers and promptly demanded the salary a top 5 "franchise" quarterback would receive.


    After the Chargers refused to increase their offer, Brees met with other teams. The New Orleans Saints and the Miami Dolphins were interested. New Orleans made an offer that included $10 million in guaranteed money the first year and a $12 million option the second year. Miami was unsure if Brees' shoulder was completely healed and doctors suggested the team not sign him because of the injury


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Brees

  4. #44
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    22,079
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    You mean the great 2005 team that lost 2 out of it's first 3 with Pennington and Martin? That old defeated team that got blown out on opening day to a mediocre Chiefs team with a healthy roster and didn't just suck early but got physically mauled early? That team?

    The 2006 team looked nothing like that old crappy 2005 team. It was a completely different patched up team that was the begining of a complete rebuild, a team that looked like a 4 to 5 win team that was gritty enough to make the playoffs.
    I mean the 2005 team that Chad Pennington rushed back after shoulder surgery and shouldn't be on the field because his arm was shot.

  5. #45
    Practice Squad
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    263
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    exactly. Alex Smith had a new OC every year until year 6 or so. It's commonly noted that Smith's new coaches hurt his progress not helped him. It also should be noted the 49ers said look you are being paid #1 money and you aren't earning that money, it's time to take a more reasonable salary, I think the Jets could be at that point with Sanchez.
    And it is noted that Smith wouldn't be where he is today had Harbaugh and Roman not been the guys tutoring him. Schotty was given all the chances in the world and he has failed. It doesn't make him a bad coach, per se, but it does suggest his time with the Jets is done.

  6. #46
    Charter JI Member
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Westchester Co.
    Posts
    38,276
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    I think you should brush up on Brees alittle bit..
    what do I need to brush up on? They let him go, and while he had a couple of good seasons in SD, he has exploded in NO.


    stats page below
    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...B/BreeDr00.htm

  7. #47
    Practice Squad
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    263
    Quote Originally Posted by jetswin View Post
    what do I need to brush up on? They let him go, and while he had a couple of good seasons in SD, he has exploded in NO.


    stats page below
    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...B/BreeDr00.htm
    There have been a few QBs explode post Marty-Ball. Rich Gannon and Drew Brees are record setting QBs to name a couple. Hopefully Sanchez will be the next Rich Gannon or Drew Brees.

  8. #48
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    22,792
    Quote Originally Posted by jetswin View Post
    what do I need to brush up on? They let him go, and while he had a couple of good seasons in SD, he has exploded in NO.


    stats page below
    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...B/BreeDr00.htm
    It didn't have anything to do with non-performance...It was due to 1) shoulder injury/concerns 2) having drafted rivers...

  9. #49
    Charter JI Member
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Westchester Co.
    Posts
    38,276
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    It didn't have anything to do with non-performance...It was due to 1) shoulder injury/concerns 2) having drafted rivers...
    why did they do all the manuvering for Rivers if they were happy with Brees?

    anyway this argument has nothing to do with what I said, that Sanchez reminds me of Brees, and we need someone on the staff to help him play that way.

  10. #50
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,160
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    it's as much Sanchez fault as it is Schotty's. If gonna can the OC, Might as well fire em both and start over.

    Here's a question, if Mark was still at USC would he be starting over Matt Barkley?
    Your track record on evaluating players is so bad I won't even respond to your question.

  11. #51
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,179
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    I mean the 2005 team that Chad Pennington rushed back after shoulder surgery and shouldn't be on the field because his arm was shot.
    His arm was shot in 06 and under a rebuilding plan with outright crap around him Shotty's scheme worked.

    Shotty has to go but this idea the 06 was a failure for either Pennigton or that team is just total BS. The 06 team over performed it's talent by miles. The coaching staff was thought of as a huge plus including Shottenheimer and Mangenius.

    Comparing Chad in 06 to 08 doesn't take into account that the 08 Dolphins protected him with a great running attack. When Baltimore stopped that runnning attack Pennington threw 4 picks in one game.

    Just keep it real.

  12. #52
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    38,062
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Mark Cannizzaro

    Let me preface this by acknowledging how unpopular the following thought is going to be
    At least he know going in, eh? You're right Mark, it's unopoular, and for a reason.

    The only argument to be made for keeping Shotty is if you believe, without any doubt, that NO OTHER POSSIBLE CANDIDATE could do better than this:

    2006: 18th in Points & 25th in Yards.
    2007: 25th in Points & 26th in Yards.
    2008: 9th in Points & 16th in Yards (The Favre Season).
    2009: 17th in Points & 20th in Yards.
    2010: 13th in Points & 11th in Yards.
    2011: 10th in Points & 27th in Yards.

    Average: 15th in Points. 25th in Yards.
    If you believe that no other O-Co could help limit turnovers (where we've been one ofthe worst teams in the NFL during Shotty's reign).

    That no other O-Co could design plays and schemes more suited to our talent (which Shotty does not do well), like rollouts, screen passes, a focus on the run, and schemes to get Mark out of the pocket and moving.

    That no other brilliant QB-guru O-Co could have reigned over the final Fall of Pennington (who went on to play much better post-Shotty), the Favre-ignores-his-O-Co season (who went on to play much better post-Shotty), the busting of Clemens and the consistent mediocrity and consistenat inconsistency of Mark Sanchez.

    If that is the very best you think we can be, that Shotty is the best option possible, then by all means, support keeping him.

    I refuse to believe that this O-Co is the best available. I support his firing this offseason, because liek you Mark, I've watched him work, seen the crazy illogical playcalling, the mistakes, the lack of adjustment, the lack of adaption to his players and circumstances, his oddities and consistent underperforming, unmotivated at the big moment, lazy and inconsistent Offenses ranking in the middle of the pack or lower.

    I'm willing to risk worse, to try and find something better. Six years is enough to know what we got.

    And what we got is decidedly average in points, and well below average in yardage and other stats (turnovers worst of all).

    We can do better.
    Last edited by Warfish; 12-30-2011 at 10:55 AM.

  13. #53
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,160
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    I just don't see how it helps. The idea that sanchez is some amazing QB just waiting for the right guy to coach him up... it's hopeful. If you believe in Sanchez might as well give him until the end of his rookie deal with the system he already knows. They say it takes QBs years to fully learn new systems.
    it's like saying this horse is slow we need a new jockey. Maybe... that might help. or maybe the horse is just slow regardless of the jockey. I just don't think it's the solution to all the problems.


    This is it in a DAMN NUTSHELL! I read this posts every day!
    NO ONE IS SAYING IT WILL SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS!
    It will alleviate ONE of our problems! One of the BIGGEST PROBLEMS!

    Get rid of him 1st then work on the rest. I don't see that many fans looking through green colored glasses as you suggest.

    Shottenheimer had no resume to speak of when he got here, only that he was a QB coach (HIRED BY HIS FATHER).
    After 6 years as OC of the NY Jets, he had one semi successful season having one of the top 5 QBs to ever play the game who told him to SIMPLIFY the game plan, get rid of all the motion because it's a DISTRACTION, usually end up in a motion penalty & doesn't fool anyone.

    So to sum this up, he came in with no resume & will go out with a BAD RESUME.
    No one is hiring this guy as a Head Coach. After seeing what we have seen for 6 years, if you spent 1 billion $ on an NFL team, would YOU hire this guy as a head coach? I sure as hell wouldn't!
    Last edited by jetster; 12-30-2011 at 11:54 AM.

  14. #54
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    22,792
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    His arm was shot in 06 and under a rebuilding plan with outright crap around him Shotty's scheme worked.

    Shotty has to go but this idea the 06 was a failure for either Pennigton or that team is just total BS. The 06 team over performed it's talent by miles. The coaching staff was thought of as a huge plus including Shottenheimer and Mangenius.

    Comparing Chad in 06 to 08 doesn't take into account that the 08 Dolphins protected him with a great running attack. When Baltimore stopped that runnning attack Pennington threw 4 picks in one game.

    Just keep it real.
    Bingo! And people around here werent *****ing about Favre/Schotty in '08 either....

    It boils down to this...It doesn't matter who the O coaches are next season...Its going to boil down to an improved OL play, Sanchez completing passes when the receivers are open and the receivers getting open and then catching the passes.

    All have been lacking this season.

  15. #55
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,179
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Bingo! And people around here werent *****ing about Favre/Schotty in '08 either....

    It boils down to this...It doesn't matter who the O coaches are next season...Its going to boil down to an improved OL play, Sanchez completing passes when the receivers are open and the receivers getting open and then catching the passes.

    All have been lacking this season.
    No the coaches matter a great deal. This team isn't executing and that fails on both the coaches and the players. I think Shotty has to go but not based on 06 based on the last 2 years. The scheme is not working with this personal.

  16. #56
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    22,792
    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    [/B]

    This is it in a DAMN NUTSHELL! I read this posts every day!
    NO ONE IS SAYING IT WILL SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS!
    It will alleviate ONE of our problems! One of the BIGGEST PROBLEMS!

    Get rid of him 1st then work on the rest. I don't see that many fans looking through green colored glasses as you suggest.

    Shottenheimer had no resume to speak of when he got here, only that he was a QB coach (HIRED BY HIS FATHER).
    After 6 years as OC of the NY Jets, he had one semi successful season having one of the top 5 QBs to ever play the game who told him to SIMPLIFY the game plan, get rid of all the motion because it's a DISTRACTION, usually end up in a motion penalty & doesn't fool anyone.

    So to some this up, he came in with no resume & will go out with a BAD RESUME.
    No one is hiring this guy as a Head Coach. After seeing what we have seen for 6 years, if you spent 1 billion $ on an NFL team, would YOU hire this guy as a head coach? I sure as hell wouldn't!
    Funny...Here is Favre saying he wants Minnys O simplied...Alot of what he says is true but as he says its like this throughout the NFL...And then if you do simplify it you people would all be on here saying how basic it is and too vanilla..

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/minnesota-...ified-playbook

  17. #57
    All League
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Fishers, Indiana
    Posts
    4,167
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post



    After the Chargers refused to increase their offer, Brees met with other teams. The New Orleans Saints and the Miami Dolphins were interested. New Orleans made an offer that included $10 million in guaranteed money the first year and a $12 million option the second year. Miami was unsure if Brees' shoulder was completely healed and doctors suggested the team not sign him because of the injury

    Thank God the Dolfags were and continue to be bumbling idiots when it comes to putting together a football team.

    Imagine if we had Brees and Brady in this division? I'd doubt we'd be talking about 2 consecutive AFC championships. Probably more like 2 consecutive 3rd place finishes.

  18. #58
    All League
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,940
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    I just don't see how it helps. The idea that sanchez is some amazing QB just waiting for the right guy to coach him up... it's hopeful. If you believe in Sanchez might as well give him until the end of his rookie deal with the system he already knows. They say it takes QBs years to fully learn new systems.
    it's like saying this horse is slow we need a new jockey. Maybe... that might help. or maybe the horse is just slow regardless of the jockey. I just don't think it's the solution to all the problems.
    I think the point most of us are making is with an even competent offense this is a playoff team with the ability to make a superbowl run. (Note the past two years) but the offense has gotten worse, not better...

    It's still a quality defense, a top 15 offense get the Jets into the playoffs in a position to make a real run. Right now the Jets offense might be the worst in the NFL.

    a new OC is in order. Honestly can Sanchez be much worse?

  19. #59
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    10,495
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelioion View Post
    I think the point most of us are making is with an even competent offense this is a playoff team with the ability to make a superbowl run. (Note the past two years) but the offense has gotten worse, not better...

    It's still a quality defense, a top 15 offense get the Jets into the playoffs in a position to make a real run. Right now the Jets offense might be the worst in the NFL.

    a new OC is in order. Honestly can Sanchez be much worse?
    disagree. the defense isn't top notch. can't cover TEs. gives up too many big plays. safeties are a liability. one lb who can blitz. cromartie is way overrated. and this is just on defense, before getting into the crappy o-line, TEs and average RBs. the team needs a talent overhaul, and qb isn't one of them yet. they need to fix multiple glaring problems on both sides of the ball first.

  20. #60
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    After seeing what we have seen for 6 years, if you spent 1 billion $ on an NFL team, would YOU hire this guy as a head coach? I sure as hell wouldn't!
    we could say the same thing about Mark.

    Would any1 pay Mark Sanchez 10 million dollars a year?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us