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Thread: Sources: Posada to retire

  1. #21
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    Gary Carter .262 AVG .335 OBP .773 OPS 115 OPS+ 1 ring
    Jorge Posada .273 AVG .374 OBP .848 OPS 121 OPS+ 5 rings

    Know your baseball history, Ernie.

    Respectfully,
    JetPotato

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Gary Carter .262 AVG .335 OBP .773 OPS 115 OPS+ 1 ring
    Jorge Posada .273 AVG .374 OBP .848 OPS 121 OPS+ 5 rings

    Know your baseball history, Ernie.

    Respectfully,
    JetPotato
    JP, its nice to see a poster whose opinions are informed by statistics, rather than envy and jealousy.

    Praytell, have you Andy Etchebarrens laughably inferior statistics before you?

    Ernie's trip down memory lane contained some cloudy weather, apparently.

    Posada will go into the hall before players with similar stats for this reason only; He did what he did...for 5 WS Champions.

    As it should be.

    -

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Gary Carter .262 AVG .335 OBP .773 OPS 115 OPS+ 1 ring
    Jorge Posada .273 AVG .374 OBP .848 OPS 121 OPS+ 5 rings

    Know your baseball history, Ernie.

    Respectfully,
    JetPotato
    Do you have the comparison of their RBI and HR totals? You omitted them.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    JP, its nice to see a poster whose opinions are informed by statistics, rather than envy and jealousy.

    Praytell, have you Andy Etchebarrens laughably inferior statistics before you?

    Ernie's trip down memory lane contained some cloudy weather, apparently.

    Posada will go into the hall before players with similar stats for this reason only; He did what he did...for 5 WS Champions.

    As it should be.

    -
    By your standards, then Antwan Randell-El is a better player than Dan Marino.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    By your standards, then Antwan Randell-El is a better player than Dan Marino.
    Did they have similar stats?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    Do you have the comparison of their RBI and HR totals? You omitted them.
    Home runs are a part of the OPS stat. Baseball fans know this.

    But if you require simplification, Carter averaged 23 home runs per season and 86 RBI. Posada averaged 24 HR and 94 RBI.

    Next.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Gary Carter .262 AVG .335 OBP .773 OPS 115 OPS+ 1 ring
    Jorge Posada .273 AVG .374 OBP .848 OPS 121 OPS+ 5 rings

    Know your baseball history, Ernie.

    Respectfully,
    JetPotato
    Not wanting to get involved in this discussion, but there is a huge gap in what Carter brought to a team with handling staffs and defense, as to what Posada gave defensively.

    That should certainly be a part of comparison analysis.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Dierking View Post
    Not wanting to get involved in this discussion, but there is a huge gap in what Carter brought to a team with handling staffs and defense, as to what Posada gave defensively.

    That should certainly be a part of comparison analysis.
    Well, in fairness, he is debating a guy who brought Andy Etchebarren into the conversation.

    Clearly, he have to go slowly.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Dierking View Post
    Not wanting to get involved in this discussion, but there is a huge gap in what Carter brought to a team with handling staffs and defense, as to what Posada gave defensively.

    That should certainly be a part of comparison analysis.
    Which is fine. Carter is in the Hall of Fame. By most reasonable accounts, Posada will at least get consideration.

    The original poster that brought up Carter however asserted that Posada isn't worthy of discussion. Which we know to absurd. And yeah, he tried to up Posada by bringing up home runs and RBIs. Failed there, too.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Which is fine. Carter is in the Hall of Fame. By most reasonable accounts, Posada will at least get consideration.

    The original poster that brought up Carter however asserted that Posada isn't worthy of discussion. Which we know to absurd. And yeah, he tried to up Posada by bringing up home runs and RBIs. Failed there, too.
    Different eras. If Carter played with Posada he would have easily hit more than 400 home runs.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx View Post
    Well, in fairness, he is debating a guy who brought Andy Etchebarren into the conversation.

    Clearly, he have to go slowly.
    I did say that his career was better than Andy Etchebarren's, if you want to appreciate the context.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    Different eras. If Carter played with Posada he would have easily hit more than 400 home runs.
    You understand what OPS+ is, right?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    You understand what OPS+ is, right?
    All I know is if you were picking a catcher for your team between Posada and Gary Carter that 99 out of 100 people would chose Gary Carter, the one outlier being Brother Green.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    All I know is if you were picking a catcher for your team between Posada and Gary Carter that 99 out of 100 people would chose Gary Carter, the one outlier being Brother Green.
    Go ahead and conduct that poll. I guarantee your numbers aren't even close.

    That's not the discussion anyway. The discussion is whether or not Posada is worthy of consideration for the Hall of Fame, which he clearly is.

    Here's some Hall Statistics, which surely you aren't familiar with either, Brother Ernie:

    Gary Carter
    Black Ink Batting - 4 (421), Average HOFer ≈ 27
    Gray Ink Batting - 75 (320), Average HOFer ≈ 144
    Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 135 (98), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
    Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 41 (155), Average HOFer ≈ 50

    Jorge Posada
    Gray Ink Batting - 17 (1105), Average HOFer ≈ 144
    Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 98 (165), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
    Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 40 (164), Average HOFer ≈ 50

    Here's some other reading for you, assuming you skipped over Verducci's eloquent article already posted:
    http://paullebowitz.com.previewyours...m/blog/?p=3683

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    Sundberg and Posada were solid but unspectacular. They both are no where near the league of Piazza, Bench and Carter, but are better than the Bo Diaz, Andy Etchebarren and Rick Cerone's of the world.Not an insult, just an accurate unbiased assessment. Also as with Jeter, if Posada plays his whole career with the Royals we are not having this discussion at all.
    THere is a world of difference between Sundberg and Posada. Sundberg was barely average, Posada was a 5x All Star (2x voted by fans, 3x manager), 5x silver slugger, and finished in the top 10 of OB% 4x.

    I don't believe Posada is a HOFer, he was never the best catcher in baseball, but he was a legit top 5 hitting catcher for about 10-15 years. He's far closer to Gary Carter and Carlton Fisk than Jim Sundburg.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist View Post
    THere is a world of difference between Sundberg and Posada. Sundberg was barely average, Posada was a 5x All Star (2x voted by fans, 3x manager), 5x silver slugger, and finished in the top 10 of OB% 4x.

    I don't believe Posada is a HOFer, he was never the best catcher in baseball, but he was a legit top 5 hitting catcher for about 10-15 years. He's far closer to Gary Carter and Carlton Fisk than Jim Sundburg.
    Sundberg was a 6 time Gold Glover. Hardly barely average. Not an insult to be compared to him.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    Different eras. If Carter played with Posada he would have easily hit more than 400 home runs.
    Carter is perhaps the most overrated catcher in history.

    If his skill were as big as his ego, he'd be a no brainer BUT he's in the HOF to simply give Montreal a player.

    I believe Posada is as close to the hall as one can get.... today Larkin got in , so perhaps Jorge will too.

    That said, Jorge has done more for the Yankees than Carter has ever done for any team. He is a egotistic individual who
    when in the game winning at bat in BOTH 1984 and 85 to win the pennant choked.

    He is NOT clutch at all.
    Last edited by southparkcpa; 01-09-2012 at 06:02 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    Sundberg was a 6 time Gold Glover. Hardly barely average. Not an insult to be compared to him.
    Are you kidding me? Comparing Jorge Posada to a guy with an OPS 174 points lower. I don't believe you're that stupid.. so you must be trolling.
    Last edited by Mantle & Namath; 01-09-2012 at 06:47 PM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Carter is perhaps the most overrated catcher in history.

    If his skill were as big as his ego, he'd be a no brainer BUT he's in the HOF to simply give Montreal a player.

    I believe Posada is as close to the hall as one can get.... today Larkin got in , so perhaps Jorge will too.

    That said, Jorge has done more for the Yankees than Carter has ever done for any team. He is a egotistic individual who
    when in the game winning at bat in BOTH 1984 and 85 to win the pennant choked.

    He is NOT clutch at all.
    You are correct about the issue of Public Pensions, but I respectfully disagree with you on this one. Gary Carter was an All-Time Great catcher. Not on the Bench/Piazza level, but a step above Fisk. Posada is below that group. Posada is almost in the Ted Simmons class.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantle & Namath View Post
    Are you kidding me? Comparing Jorge Posada to a guy with an OPS 174 points lower. I don't believe you're that stupid.. so you must be trolling.
    OPS, WHIP, etc., are ESPN generation stats. Also they played in different eras.

    Also, just because someone happened to be on a team of All Stars with a huge payroll and they won automatically makes the mid and bottom of the roster guys All-Time Greats? I respectfully disagree.

    Being compared to Sundberg and Simmons is not an insult.

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