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Thread: Sources: Posada to retire

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    Sundberg was a 6 time Gold Glover. Hardly barely average. Not an insult to be compared to him.
    Gold Gloves?

    Any modicum of credibility when it comes to baseball you had left just went out the window with the rest.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    You are correct about the issue of Public Pensions, but I respectfully disagree with you on this one. Gary Carter was an All-Time Great catcher. Not on the Bench/Piazza level, but a step above Fisk. Posada is below that group. Posada is almost in the Ted Simmons class.
    Ted Simmons is a borderline Hall of Famer.. so that's a better comparison.
    Last edited by Mantle & Namath; 01-09-2012 at 07:09 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    OPS, WHIP, etc., are ESPN generation stats. Also they played in different eras.

    Also, just because someone happened to be on a team of All Stars with a huge payroll and they won automatically makes the mid and bottom of the roster guys All-Time Greats? I respectfully disagree.

    Being compared to Sundberg and Simmons is not an insult.
    Maybe you understand these stats.

    Jorge Posada (1826 games): .273 avg/ .474 slg/ .374 obp/ 275 hr/ 1065 rbi/ 900 runs/ 1664 hits
    Jim Sundberg (1962 games): .248 avg/ .348 slg/ .327 obp/ 95 hr/ 624 rbi/ 621 runs/ 1493 hits

    Ted Simmons and Jorge Posada are on a different levels than a JAG like Jim Sundberg.

    I think veterans committee will eventually vote in Ted Simmons. Not so sure about Posada because of all the players he played with. He was always the 4th or 5th guy on those teams. It think it would be weird for Posada to get in and not someone lie Bernie Williams. Who had the better career and impact with the Yankees? Not much of a debate in my opinion.
    Last edited by Mantle & Namath; 01-09-2012 at 07:16 PM.

  4. #44
    I think veterans committee will eventually vote in Ted Simmons. Not so sure about Posada because of all the players he played with. He was always the 4th or 5th guy on those teams. It think it would be weird for Posada to get in and not someone lie Bernie Williams. Who had the better career and impact with the Yankees? Not much of a debate in my opinion.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantle & Namath View Post
    Maybe you understand these stats.

    Jorge Posada (1826 games): .273 avg/ .474 slg/ .374 obp/ 275 hr/ 1065 rbi/ 900 runs/ 1664 hits
    Jim Sundberg (1962 games): .248 avg/ .348 slg/ .327 obp/ 95 hr/ 624 rbi/ 621 runs/ 1493 hits

    Ted Simmons and Jorge Posada are on a different levels than a JAG like Jim Sundberg.

    I think veterans committee will eventually vote in Ted Simmons. Not so sure about Posada because of all the players he played with. He was always the 4th or 5th guy on those teams. It think it would be weird for Posada to get in and not someone lie Bernie Williams. Who had the better career and impact with the Yankees? Not much of a debate in my opinion.
    Sundberg was an All-Time defensive great at a position where a premium is paid for defense. In baseball one looks for defensive strength up the middle. That is, at catcher, shortstop, second base and centerfield. You can try to hide bats "at the corners".

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    Sundberg was an All-Time defensive great at a position where a premium is paid for defense. In baseball one looks for defensive strength up the middle. That is, at catcher, shortstop, second base and centerfield. You can try to hide bats "at the corners".
    Than compare him to Tony Pena. There is more than one one way to skin a cat. Posada started 1450 games behind the plate for the Yankees. They didn't need to hide him when he was averaging 25 home runs/95 rbi's a season.
    Last edited by Mantle & Namath; 01-09-2012 at 07:45 PM.

  7. #47
    Another guys who is borderline is Joe Torre. What hurts him is the fact he spent more than half his career away from the plate at 1B/3B. He'll obviously get in as a manager.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantle & Namath View Post
    Than compare him to Tony Pena. There is more than one one way to skin a cat. Posada started 1450 games behind the plate for the Yankees. They didn't need to hide him when he was averaging 25 home runs/95 rbi's a season.
    Tony Pena was good player but not even in the discussion of the HOF. Similar to Posada and Sundberg.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    Tony Pena was good player but not even in the discussion of the HOF. Similar to Sundberg.
    Fixed.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantle & Namath View Post
    Fixed.
    Please do not misquote me.

    Respectfully,

    Ernie

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Carter is perhaps the most overrated catcher in history.

    If his skill were as big as his ego, he'd be a no brainer BUT he's in the HOF to simply give Montreal a player.

    I believe Posada is as close to the hall as one can get.... today Larkin got in , so perhaps Jorge will too.

    That said, Jorge has done more for the Yankees than Carter has ever done for any team. He is a egotistic individual who
    when in the game winning at bat in BOTH 1984 and 85 to win the pennant choked.

    He is NOT clutch at all.
    What are you talking about?
    Carter was on the Expos in 84.
    The Mets finished 3 games back in 85 so I don't know what game you are referring to.
    I'd also say that the hit to start the rally in game 6 in 86 was what most people would consider to be a clutch hit.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by adb280z View Post
    What are you talking about?
    Carter was on the Expos in 84.
    The Mets finished 3 games back in 85 so I don't know what game you are referring to.
    I'd also say that the hit to start the rally in game 6 in 86 was what most people would consider to be a clutch hit.
    Plus the Opening Day Home Run in extra innings to win his first game as a Met in 1985.

    Some of these Met haters are blind to reality. It is natural for people to look at "their guy" as better than he actually was. That is what is going on with the "Posada love" here in this thread. If you had a choice of Bench, Carter, Piazza, Simmons and Posada to be your catcher, no one chooses Posada. If you had a choice of Posada, Pena, Sundberg and Bob Boone, Posada may have a few takers. That is the reality. However to some the reality is also that Bernie Williams is a Hall of Famer. This is the mentality that we are dealing with here.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    Plus the Opening Day Home Run in extra innings to win his first game as a Met in 1985.

    Some of these Met haters are blind to reality. It is natural for people to look at "their guy" as better than he actually was. That is what is going on with the "Posada love" here in this thread. If you had a choice of Bench, Carter, Piazza, Simmons and Posada to be your catcher, no one chooses Posada. If you had a choice of Posada, Pena, Sundberg and Bob Boone, Posada may have a few takers. That is the reality. However to some the reality is also that Bernie Williams is a Hall of Famer. This is the mentality that we are dealing with here.
    The only mentality that anyone is "dealing with" here is the extremely jealous and childish notion that wearing a Yankees uniform somehow reduces your accomplishments.

  14. #54
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    I thought Posada retired in April, and un-retired in Septemeber/October

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    I respectfully disagree with you on this one. Gary Carter was an All-Time Great catcher. Not on the Bench/Piazza level, but a step above Fisk. Posada is below that group. Posada is almost in the Ted Simmons class.
    I have no issue here...I simply wanted to state that Posada is VERY NEAR HOF class and Carter is also VERY NEAR HOF class.

    One is in..one is not.

    But Posada is a much better team player than carter.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by adb280z View Post
    What are you talking about?
    Carter was on the Expos in 84.
    The Mets finished 3 games back in 85 so I don't know what game you are referring to.
    I'd also say that the hit to start the rally in game 6 in 86 was what most people would consider to be a clutch hit.
    Fair enough...my memory is NOT what it used to be in terms of 84-85 but Carter is still an over rated egotist.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    .

    But Posada is a much better team player than carter.
    What is the formula that constitutes this?

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    I have no issue here...I simply wanted to state that Posada is VERY NEAR HOF class and Carter is also VERY NEAR HOF class.

    One is in..one is not.

    But Posada is a much better team player than carter.
    yes, he was a great team player in 2011

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    I have no issue here...I simply wanted to state that Posada is VERY NEAR HOF class and Carter is also VERY NEAR HOF class.

    One is in..one is not.

    But Posada is a much better team player than carter.
    Carter and Posada are on different levels. Posada is not very near HOF worthy.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    Posada is not very near HOF worthy.
    How about near?


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