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Thread: Solar Proving Cheaper Than Diesel in India Making Mittal Believer: Energy

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    Solar Proving Cheaper Than Diesel in India Making Mittal Believer: Energy

    [URL="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-25/solar-cheaper-than-diesel-making-india-s-mittal-believer-energy.html"]http://www.bloomberg.com/[/URL]

    [QUOTE]
    India is producing power from solar cells more cheaply than by burning diesel for the first time, spurring billionaire Sunil Mittal and Coca-Cola Co. (KO)’s mango supplier to jettison the fuel in favor of photovoltaic panels.

    The cost of solar energy in India declined by 28 percent since December 2010, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance. The cause was a 51 percent drop in panel prices last year as the world’s 10 largest manufacturers, led by China’s Suntech Power Holdings Co. (STP), doubled output capacity.

    “Solar is going mainstream in India, helped by Chinese pricing,” said Ardeshir Contractor, founder of developer Kiran Energy Solar Power Pvt. Kiran, whose investors include Bessemer Venture Partners, an early financier of Skype Technologies SA, won one of the largest projects auctioned by India last month.

    India joins pockets of Italy, Spain and Hawaii where rising fuel costs and lower panel prices make solar pay for itself without state subsidies, New Energy Finance data show. Factories and homes in the Asian nation switch on emergency diesel-fired generators during chronic blackouts and to bridge gaps in the power-delivery grid as the government prepares a $400 billion program through 2017 to curb the shortfall and spur growth.

    “If they had the foresight, these factories would be replacing their diesel generators now or at least getting what they can from solar,” said Lalit Jain, chief executive officer of Moser Baer Clean Energy Ltd., which owns 100 megawatts of operating solar plants in India, Italy, the U.K. and Germany.

    Power Deficit

    Electricity demand exceeds supply in India by about 14 percent during peak hours, and about 400 million people have no access to power, according to the United Nations.

    While European governments have cut preferential rates paid to solar-plant operators amid an escalating debt crisis, India is driving down its costs by forcing utilities and developers to compete on price.

    Winners of India’s national solar-capacity auction in December agreed to supply power for an average rate of 8.78 rupees (17 cents) a kilowatt-hour by early 2013.

    In comparison, electricity from burning state-subsidized diesel costs generators about 17 rupees, according to Charanjit Singh, an energy analyst at HSBC Holdings Plc. The cheapest power comes from burning coal, which is about 4 rupees a kilowatt-hour, though users must be connected to the grid.

    Bharti, Jain

    Mittal’s Bharti Airtel Ltd. (BHARTI), India’s largest mobile-phone operator, and Jain Irrigation Systems Ltd. (JI), the world’s biggest mango-puree producer and supplier to Coca-Cola, are among companies swapping diesel generators for photovoltaic modules.

    While Airtel’s Bharti Infratel unit typically runs its phone towers on the cheapest, grid-delivered power, it estimates that electricity from diesel costs about four times as much.

    The company upgraded 1,646 out of about 22,000 rural sites that get little or no grid-connected power to run on solar and other renewable sources, it said in an e-mail.

    The government’s Telecom Regulatory Authority recommended this month that at least 75 percent of rural mobile towers and 33 percent of urban towers run on a combination of solar, wind and diesel by 2020. India’s 300,000 mobile towers account for about 4 percent of diesel use, according to HSBC’s Singh.

    Jain Irrigation will complete an 8.5-megawatt solar project in March to replace diesel-fired output at its processing plant in Jalgaon, Maharashtra, CEO Anil Jain said Jan. 3. The company estimates it could recoup the cost in as little as five years.

    Solar Target

    [B]India, the third-biggest energy user behind China and the U.S., has a goal to have installed 20,000 megawatts of solar- energy capacity by 2022, about equal to 18 new nuclear reactors. [/B]

    That target is 10 percent of today’s total generating capacity including all energy sources. Less than 1 percent of that current power base is solar.

    India’s solar industry has benefited from tax breaks and a guaranteed government buyer of its cleaner power. Diesel generation has been helped by state subsidies that make the fuel cost less than the market price to cap inflation.

    The diesel price set for the capital Delhi was at 32 percent below the market rate as of Jan. 16, according to market data published by the nation’s Oil Ministry.

    Factories burn diesel during blackouts to maintain a constant power source. Their “huge” warehouses and empty rooftops make them a “prime candidate” for solar power, said Hari Manoharan, an analyst at Energy Alternatives India. Indian manufacturers are losing more than 432 billion rupees a year as a result of power failures, Manoharan said in a December report.

    GTL, Acme

    GTL Infrastructure Ltd. (GTLI), a Mumbai-based owner of 32,000 phone towers, said it’s saving 56,000 liters of diesel a year after installing solar panels. Acme Telepower Ltd., a Gurgaon- based company converting sites for Viom Networks Ltd. and Bharti, estimates the panels can cut the diesel running time of a rural tower to eight hours a day from 22, it said Jan. 10.

    India charges the highest power prices to industrial and commercial consumers such as factories, mines and malls, and gives away free power to farmers for irrigation pumps. As the cost of solar falls, more businesses are deciding it makes sense, said Akhilesh Magal, an analyst at Bridge to India.

    “Things that weren’t feasible have suddenly opened up,” Magal said. “As prices drop, you suddenly see huge segments of the market open up.”


    [/QUOTE]

  2. #2
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    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c93aaCza_dY[/url]

    :jets17

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    It is great when the parts and work is cheap. Neither is cheap here!

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    I posted this because perhaps solar energy is already making a dent in world oil consumption and thus world oil prices. Keep your fingers crossed.

    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;4349364]It is great when the parts and work is cheap. Neither is cheap here![/QUOTE]

    Not true.

    Solar panels prices have dropped significantly in the world and the USA. China cut the price on its solar panel to what some say is just above their cost. Some say this was done in reaction to the prospect of Solynrda and their 'new" solar technology. Any way solar panels are cheap due to China cutting their prices drastically.

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    [B]"India charges the highest power prices to industrial and commercial consumers such as factories, mines and malls, and gives away free power to farmers for irrigation pumps. As the cost of solar falls, more businesses are deciding it makes sense, said Akhilesh Magal, an analyst at Bridge to India. "
    [/B]

    Interesting that they're doing it the right away, instead of giving subsidies to mega-corps.

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    [QUOTE=brady's a catcher;4351394][B]"India charges the highest power prices to industrial and commercial consumers such as factories, mines and malls, and gives away free power to farmers for irrigation pumps. As the cost of solar falls, more businesses are deciding it makes sense, said Akhilesh Magal, an analyst at Bridge to India. "
    [/B]

    Interesting that they're doing it the right away, instead of giving subsidies to mega-corps.[/QUOTE]

    700 million Indians live on less than $2 per day.

    [URL="http://www.indiadaily.org/entry/700-million-earning-2-a-day-millionaires-increasing-20-this-is-india/"]http://www.indiadaily.org/entry/700-million-earning-2-a-day-millionaires-increasing-20-this-is-india/[/URL]

  7. #7
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    Solar producing energy cheaper than diesel in a tropical country that has a third world infrastructure isn't a ringing endorsement for solar. It's more of an indictment of how screwed up India is in developing their energy infrastructure and how important the infrastructure is.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=Buster;4351383]I posted this because perhaps solar energy is already making a dent in world oil consumption and thus world oil prices. Keep your fingers crossed.

    Solar panels prices have dropped significantly in the world and the USA.[/QUOTE]

    Do you use solar power, and if so, for what % of your power needs?

    [QUOTE=Buster;4351401]700 million Indians live on less than $2 per day.
    [/QUOTE]

    So there is fiscal injustice and wealth inequallity between the U.S. and India? How do you propose this be corrected?

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4352192]Do you use solar power, and if so, for what % of your power needs?[/QUOTE]

    In America, unfortunately none.

    In India, all of the heated water in my house and the others in my society is heated through solar energy. Granted, it is still a small percent of the total given the amount of electricity that is necessary for lights/air conditioning/appliances.

    Why was that question posed?

    [QUOTE]
    So there is fiscal injustice and wealth inequallity between the U.S. and India? How do you propose this be corrected?[/QUOTE]

    To me, it doesn't matter whether it's bridged. When discussing a 235 year old nation comprised of people of all walks of life and from different backgrounds and psychologies, it is an exercise in futility to compare it to any other...especially a 65 year old country with a population far exceeding it's capacity, with a terribly corrupt government, and no legislation or enforcement of nationwide minimum wage and free public education. It makes more sense to talk about correctives in an absolute sense, rather than relative.

    As simple or ambiguous as it may sound, I believe the easiest way to pick up the obscene poverty in my parents homeland would be to supply water, electricity, and a basic level of education to the villages.

    There are thousands upon thousands of villages that still burn kerosene for light and drink dirty water, and both are slowly killing the inhabitants of these villages. The big providers are all money hungry looking to save their water/electricity for the big cities, so these guys get left in the dust (hopefully the solar panels will cut into this void).

    There are however a couple of startups in these villages that have found ways to supply enough electricity for one light bulb per household for $1/month...but they require funding because no one wants to invest in them since they're not operating for profit...and same goes for water.

    As someone who studied and was passionate about developmental economics, I truly believe that true humanitarian change comes from technology...and technology; whether for light or simply for daily product like farming techniques, must be invented or taught...but either way, it comes from education. So by funding these concentrated village schools on farming techniques and being able to recognize and educate the brighter ones for more good, there is a real possibility to change the trajectory of these people's lives.

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    [QUOTE=greenwichjetfan;4352293]Why was that question posed?[/quote]

    It was posed to Buster, same as I usually pose it to Bitonti.

    The reason I pose it, is that I've found the loudest proponents of Solar/Alternate Energy amongst our small population in this forum, generally do not actually USE what they promote.

    I tend to think their actions speak far louder than their words.

    [quote]my parents homeland[/QUOTE]

    You're of Indian decent, eh?

    May I just say that as the husband of a Vegetarian, we'd be lost without the brilliant cullinary contribution of your culture. Indian food, best food. I especially love it when we're the only anglo customers, means we've found the real authentic stuff, the best stuff.

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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4352029]Solar producing energy cheaper than diesel in a tropical country that has a third world infrastructure isn't a ringing endorsement for solar. It's more of an indictment of how screwed up India is in developing their energy infrastructure and how important the infrastructure is.[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps


    India is one of the worlds "big three" growing economies. And it shows no signs of letting up. If India, China and Brazil can satiate their need for energy with Solar instead of Oil maybe they will take some of the demand pressure off of petroleum and bring down the price.

    Another brain fart:

    What if the Prius, Volt and Leaf don't save the planet by becoming the dominant automobiles in the USA but by becoming the dominant automobiles in the developing world?

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    [QUOTE=Buster;4354484]
    What if the Volt doesn't save the planet by becoming the dominant automobile in the USA but by becoming the dominant automobile in the developing world?[/QUOTE]

    I like this.

    We can ship them all to Iran and set the country ablaze...

    Very smart tactic, Buster.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Buster;4354484]Perhaps


    India is one of the worlds "big three" growing economies. And it shows no signs of letting up. If India, China and Brazil can satiate their need for energy with Solar instead of Oil maybe they will take some of the demand pressure off of petroleum and bring down the price.

    Another brain fart:

    What if the Prius, Volt and Leaf don't save the planet by becoming the dominant automobiles in the USA but by becoming the dominant automobiles in the developing world?[/QUOTE]

    There is no freaking way these countries can satisfy their energy needs with Solar, wind, brain farts or any combination of the 3. They have a huge opportunity to more efficiently use and deliver energy conventional or otherwise. They also are going to increase the use of Nuclear by large margins.

    China is building a huge infrastructure of public transportation to reduce cars on the road. India is going to have to build some kind of modern grid to stop using deisel brought in by trucks to power plants because they don't have a infrastructure in place to deliver power to their growing industrial base.

    These countries are growing fast but the thing you are missing is they have a huge opportunity to use less conventional energy through more efficient transport and use of traditional and green energies.

    The idea that the Chevy Volt or Leaf or solar panels is going to drive the economies of India, China or Brazil is total BS.

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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4354646]There is no freaking way these countries can satisfy their energy needs with Solar, wind, brain farts or any combination of the 3. They have a huge opportunity to more efficiently use and deliver energy conventional or otherwise. They also are going to increase the use of Nuclear by large margins.

    China is building a huge infrastructure of public transportation to reduce cars on the road. India is going to have to build some kind of modern grid to stop using deisel brought in by trucks to power plants because they don't have a infrastructure in place to deliver power to their growing industrial base.

    These countries are growing fast but the thing you are missing is they have a huge opportunity to use less conventional energy through more efficient transport and use of traditional and green energies.

    The idea that the Chevy Volt or Leaf or solar panels is going to drive the economies of India, China or Brazil is total BS.[/QUOTE]

    Calm down.

    Solar power and more efficient use of petroleum will not solve all of the worlds energy problems BUT THEY ARE A STEP (hopefully, many steps) IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

    [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/solar-is-getting-cheaper-but-how-far-can-it-go/2011/11/07/gIQAuXXuvM_blog.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein[/URL]

    [QUOTE]“…In 2010, some 17 gigawatts of solar power were manufactured, shipped and installed — the equivalent of 17 large nuclear power plants...”[/QUOTE]

    How many large (dangerous for the next 10,000 years) nuclear power plants were built worldwide in 2010?

    I do not know but I doubt it was 17

    Also consider this:

    [QUOTE]
    A couple of things are driving the drop in costs. Solar-panel technology is getting more efficient, true, but that’s just part of the tale. China is also heavily subsidizing its domestic industry, driving a 40 percent plunge in prices over the past year (and bulldozing a few U.S. companies into bankruptcy). But it’s not all about over-production from China, either. Solar companies are figuring out how to set up systems cheaply: installation and other non-module costs in the United States dropped 17 percent in 2010[/QUOTE]

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=Buster;4354732]Calm down.

    Solar power and more efficient use of petroleum will not solve all of the worlds energy problems BUT THEY ARE A STEP (hopefully, many steps) IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

    [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/solar-is-getting-cheaper-but-how-far-can-it-go/2011/11/07/gIQAuXXuvM_blog.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein[/URL]



    How many large (dangerous for the next 10,000 years) nuclear power plants were built worldwide in 2010?

    I do not know but I doubt it was 17

    Also consider this:[/QUOTE]

    Have you ever been to India? I have and I can tell you they probably produced a ton of heat and power buring sticks and cow chips.

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